The Natives are Getting Restless

I don't think I'm alone in this (but it's my opinion, so feel free to correct me) but I can't help feeling that the MA has left a lot of people feeling a bit "meh" about the game.

The Mission Architect was meant to be ground breaking - and it certainly has been. But I also think it's already shown that it's potentially game breaking too.

Yes, I'm using hindsight - I was as excited as anyone to see it coming and I looked forward to it and whilst it has some great stuff going for it, but there are several problems related to this issue that I'll try and describe as I see them.

1) The MA wasn't enough for a single issue. Given that it was meant to be part of other issues there should have been some nice shinies for those who had no interest in the MA. There sadly haven't been and with a blanket of silence re I15 it's been a disappointing issue for many.

2) It was released too early in terms of development and in terms of game play. In terms of development it had a few too many bugs. Some of which are requiring significant patching. In terms of development some exploits weren't discovered in time I guess but it's much better to fail to give than to give then take back. In other words, allowing people to use one type of critter in a mission then removing it because somebody's found an exploit is very poor form.

3) When the players ask for stuff, it's generally very eloquently expressed and well reasoned - and they've been asking for a major PVP fix for a long time and any changes that have been made really haven't worked in terms of game play or satisfying the players. Ok the "PVPers" aren't the majority of this game but this goes in stark contrast to when NC Soft first took over the IP of this game. Then there was a sea-change and they made strenuous efforts to give the players what they wanted. Now the pendulum has swung back the other way it seems to me.

4) We hear a lot about how much the Dev team has expanded. I'm sorry but I'm not seeing that. What I am seeing is the same number of issues per year but the last two have been buggy as hell. In terms of bugs, I13 was the worst since I7. I14 seems to be pretty similar.

I could be jaded. I probably am a little - hell I've played this game almost daily for three years and maybe the magic's beginning to fade just a little. But that doesn't mean that I hate it - not by a long shot. In fact the reverse is true - but I am concerned.

My biggest concern is that the devs have gotten so involved in their projects they've kinda of forgotten about the fans a bit. It's easy enough to do, we all get wrapped up in our stuff frm time to time.

Here's a few suggestions for the Devs:

1) Listen to the players a bit more. They are your greatest assets. We know you can because you have, but it seems like you've stopped recently.

2) Communicate More! Generally speaking the devs are good at talking to the media and the US forums, but when it comes to talking to the EU they are as much use as a rubber duck in the sahara. We do deserve better comms from you guys.

3) When we say something's broken (such as PVP) it's not out of pure bloody mindedness. Sure you can't do everything we want in one fell swoop but there are areas of the game that need a LOT of attention: PVP, Boomtown & Dark Astoria are all potentially excellent resources for the game but are woefully under-used and yet could be very cost-effectively turned into shinies for the players and we've been saying it for bloody years! See point 1.

Big things are on the horizon: CoX's 5th Anniversary, DCU, CO and other stuff. The silence surrounding the 5th Anniversary is actually worrying, given we know Positron's propensity for teasers. We've had one so far I believe but that's it. I reckon we're overdue for something else.

It looks as though I14 has brought a goodly amount of players back so let's hope that Paragon Studios now sits up and takes notice. It'd be nice to think so huh?

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2) It was released too early in terms of development and in terms of game play.

[/ QUOTE ]It was already pushed back an issue to give us customizable bosses/mobs.

Also, to be fair, the EU community did have a Dev communicating with them for a brief while - BAB. The community "very eloquently" chased him away.

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When the players ask for stuff, it's generally very eloquently expressed and well reasoned

[/ QUOTE ]This stuff is just gold.

Oh, and listening to the players is fine, giving them what they ask for usually isn't. They don't generally know what's good for them, and especially for the game as a whole.

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4) We hear a lot about how much the Dev team has expanded. I'm sorry but I'm not seeing that. What I am seeing is the same number of issues per year but the last two have been buggy as hell. In terms of bugs, I13 was the worst since I7. I14 seems to be pretty similar.

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There is a fantastic paper on this subject titled "The Mythical Man Month". Adding developers to software development teams doesn't speed up development (beyond a certain point) and it certainly doesn't reduce the number of bugs.

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Blackhat
Dr Blackhat - Empathy/Rad Defender
Blackhat von Radon - Fire/Rad Controller
Blackhat von Tinder - Fire/Kin Controller
Blackhat von Sizzle - Fire/Fire Blaster

Players are best at finding ways to exploit the system and abuse anything they are given.
If the players are given more stuff, whatever that stuff is, they will be able to exploit and abuse this stuff for short term gain. Sadly, the only way to avoid this is to GIVE THEM NOTHING.....EVER!

But I'd rather get new stuff to play with, and learn to cope with the abuse.

On a personal note, the MA has been a great bonus to me. It has reinvigorated my playing, allowed me to do things I've never even imagined I could in-game. I've made giant Moon-based Death Rays, joined the Space Marines and helped Dorothy find a her lost friends. The best missions are cinematic, in fact, they are more fun (to me) than watching superhero cinema. Sadly, the best of MA shines through only when soloing, so you have time to read all the storylines.

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�How do I like my MMOs? I like them the way Paragon Studios used to make them.� - a fitting tribute from kiasa.org

EU, Union mostly.

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1) The MA wasn't enough for a single issue. Given that it was meant to be part of other issues there should have been some nice shinies for those who had no interest in the MA.

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There where. PvP IO sets, PvP changes, merit random drop table improvements. But people have been far to busy with the MA to notice them.

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2) It was released too early in terms of development and in terms of game play.

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It's always to early. If you waited till everything was perfect, nothing would ever be released. And it would still break as soon as you let the general public in. In this case, it had to come out before CO anyway, so delay was not an option.

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3) When the players ask for stuff, it's generally very eloquently expressed and well reasoned

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What forum are you reading?

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they've been asking for a major PVP fix for a long time

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Which they got in the last issue. Be careful what you wish for...

PvP in CoX is unfixable. Any attempt to do so can only ever make things worse.

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I really should do something about this signature.

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4) We hear a lot about how much the Dev team has expanded. I'm sorry but I'm not seeing that. What I am seeing is the same number of issues per year but the last two have been buggy as hell. In terms of bugs, I13 was the worst since I7. I14 seems to be pretty similar.

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There is a fantastic paper on this subject titled "The Mythical Man Month". Adding developers to software development teams doesn't speed up development (beyond a certain point) and it certainly doesn't reduce the number of bugs.

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That's very likely to be true if you throw people into a single project in an uncoordinated way, and are trying to get quick results.

But while there'll always be a delay in getting anyone new to a program up to speed in key areas, for something like CoX there will be scope for splitting devs up into teams and having each work on essentially separate projects. One team on graphics changes, one on new TF/SF management systems, one on AI tweaks, that sort of thing.

With that sort of approach you can effectively speed up development by a factor of several, even if you never get the full "5 times the people = 5 times the progress" one might naively expect.

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Feel jaded? Yup. I guess it is a case of 'Sit tight and Pray', however.
Just so long as they stay off that damned nerf button...

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Interesting post.

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1) Listen to the players a bit more. They are your greatest assets. We know you can because you have, but it seems like you've stopped recently.

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Agreed and even more importantly we are.......the paying customers


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2) Communicate More! Generally speaking the devs are good at talking to the media and the US forums, but when it comes to talking to the EU they are as much use as a rubber duck in the sahara. We do deserve better comms from you guys.

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I could not agree more! However other than the forum rep we have I don't see this changing in a hurry, what can be done other than the mighty DOOM of a forum merge?


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3) When we say something's broken (such as PVP) it's not out of pure bloody mindedness. Sure you can't do everything we want in one fell swoop but there are areas of the game that need a LOT of attention: PVP, Boomtown & Dark Astoria are all potentially excellent resources for the game but are woefully under-used and yet could be very cost-effectively turned into shinies for the players and we've been saying it for bloody years! See point 1.


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As posted above, I'm not sure what can be done with PvP. However you are right, Boomtown & Dark Astoria both are way under-used, I'm interested in what you think could be done with them? I've often thought that Boomtown would make a great event zone something like the RWZ idea but of course a different concept and perhaps for heroes only.

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I don't think I'm alone in this (but it's my opinion, so feel free to correct me) but I can't help feeling that the MA has left a lot of people feeling a bit "meh" about the game.

The Mission Architect was meant to be ground breaking - and it certainly has been. But I also think it's already shown that it's potentially game breaking too.

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I just plain disagree with pretty much everything above. I am starting to get a balance between normal mishing, MA and TF's.

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1) The MA wasn't enough for a single issue. Given that it was meant to be part of other issues there should have been some nice shinies for those who had no interest in the MA. There sadly haven't been and with a blanket of silence re I15 it's been a disappointing issue for many.

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i14 was riddled with bugs that are still being squished, something you complain about, and yet you want them to have forced even more content in there? And i14 was recently released, i15 will come and information will come aswell.

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2) It was released too early in terms of development and in terms of game play. In terms of development it had a few too many bugs. Some of which are requiring significant patching. In terms of development some exploits weren't discovered in time I guess but it's much better to fail to give than to give then take back. In other words, allowing people to use one type of critter in a mission then removing it because somebody's found an exploit is very poor form.

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Agreed, more time in beta owuld have been nice, but then they would possibly have missed the timetable of #of issues per year and can you imagine the outrage that would bring?

Removing content that is possible to exploit is not poor form, it is the least bad of two bad choices. Remove it, fix it and then put it back in. The alternative would be to leave it in to be exploited while they are working on a fix, i know i would not hesitate if the choice was mine.

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3) When the players ask for stuff, it's generally very eloquently expressed and well reasoned


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Hah! Good one

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- and they've been asking for a major PVP fix for a long time and any changes that have been made really haven't worked in terms of game play or satisfying the players. Ok the "PVPers" aren't the majority of this game but this goes in stark contrast to when NC Soft first took over the IP of this game. Then there was a sea-change and they made strenuous efforts to give the players what they wanted. Now the pendulum has swung back the other way it seems to me.

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Don't know what to say about this, i never asked for PvP changes and with the recent PvP changes (PvP-set IO's) PvP looks even more dead to me... But that is a whole other discussion.

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4) We hear a lot about how much the Dev team has expanded. I'm sorry but I'm not seeing that. What I am seeing is the same number of issues per year but the last two have been buggy as hell. In terms of bugs, I13 was the worst since I7. I14 seems to be pretty similar.

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Im not sure more devs = less bugs, in fact like you pointed out that is apparently not the case.

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1) Listen to the players a bit more. They are your greatest assets. We know you can because you have, but it seems like you've stopped recently.

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Apart from PvP, can you give any other example?

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2) Communicate More! Generally speaking the devs are good at talking to the media and the US forums, but when it comes to talking to the EU they are as much use as a rubber duck in the sahara. We do deserve better comms from you guys.

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That would be nice yes.

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3) When we say something's broken (such as PVP) it's not out of pure bloody mindedness. Sure you can't do everything we want in one fell swoop but there are areas of the game that need a LOT of attention: PVP, Boomtown & Dark Astoria are all potentially excellent resources for the game but are woefully under-used and yet could be very cost-effectively turned into shinies for the players and we've been saying it for bloody years! See point 1.

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Sorry but PvP in CoX has always been a big joke to me, about the only thing i would approve of when it comes to PvP would be to hire a new dev specificly for PvP with experience (as a dev) from some other PvP-oriented MMO. I just dont think the current team understands it and the less resources they spend on it the better, IMO.

Dark astoria, Boomtown... I would prefer villain side content before they even consider reworking (not even adding zones, reworking them) hero side content. I just think reworking two existing zones would be a lot of work for very little gain.

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Only thing making me restless at the moment is the game going down in the middle of the day, every day, for what seems like ages...

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Agree with pretty much all of your post Scarlet.

I didnt want the MA, but must admit to actually liking it more than I thought, though this brings 2 problems.

a) Having hooked me, I now have my 3 arcs, so cant make any more.

b) I have been quite lucky and found some fun arcs with good custom creatures and therein lies the rub - If I never see another Malta/CoT etc etc again I will be happy, as they bore me now compared to new enemies with a varied mix of powers, u never know what to expect. (Though also if I never see another cargo ship just dumped full of enemies I will be happy too)

I really do wish they would do something with PVP, as having never played it in another game, I got into in CoH, but although I am one of the few who thinks the changes were for the better, PVP is still dead as more work is needed.

I love this game and want to see what it is capable of, but I must admit, CO is looking shiny, and frankly, I dont believe the "great things to come" rubbish any more, though if they want to prove me wrong and actually TELL us what is coming, I will eat my hat.

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Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.

Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966

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I love this game and want to see what it is capable of, but I must admit, CO is looking shiny, and frankly, I dont believe the "great things to come" rubbish any more, though if they want to prove me wrong and actually TELL us what is coming, I will eat my hat.

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Quoted for truth

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I love this game and want to see what it is capable of, but I must admit, CO is looking shiny, and frankly, I dont believe the "great things to come" rubbish any more, though if they want to prove me wrong and actually TELL us what is coming, I will eat my hat.

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Quoted for truth

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As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter what anyone tells me.

I will play both games, and stick with whichever is best, simple as that.

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I really should do something about this signature.

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[ QUOTE ]


I love this game and want to see what it is capable of, but I must admit, CO is looking shiny, and frankly, I dont believe the "great things to come" rubbish any more, though if they want to prove me wrong and actually TELL us what is coming, I will eat my hat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoted for truth

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I'll top that by saying I'll eat my socks after I've ran a marathon in them...

...without condiments

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I love this game and want to see what it is capable of, but I must admit, CO is looking shiny, and frankly, I dont believe the "great things to come" rubbish any more, though if they want to prove me wrong and actually TELL us what is coming, I will eat my hat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoted for truth

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I'll top that by saying I'll eat my socks after I've ran a marathon in them...

...without condiments

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QFT

I should start a bookie

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I love this game and want to see what it is capable of, but I must admit, CO is looking shiny, and frankly, I dont believe the "great things to come" rubbish any more, though if they want to prove me wrong and actually TELL us what is coming, I will eat my hat.

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Quoted for truth

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I'll top that by saying I'll eat my socks after I've ran a marathon in them...

...without condiments

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Come on Devs. You've got the chance now to make someone eat their own sweat-encrusted socks, without needing to resort to kidnap and actual bodily harm. When will you have another chance at this?

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I love this game and want to see what it is capable of, but I must admit, CO is looking shiny, and frankly, I dont believe the "great things to come" rubbish any more, though if they want to prove me wrong and actually TELL us what is coming, I will eat my hat.

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Quoted for truth

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I'm not sure this approach will get more info

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@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

Well its worth a try Golden Girl

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Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool

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I don't think I'm alone in this (but it's my opinion, so feel free to correct me) but I can't help feeling that the MA has left a lot of people feeling a bit "meh" about the game.

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Not everyone agrees with you, no suprises there. I'm more curious on what the ratio of people going "meh" to people going "woah!". The number of people online and playing the game seems to favour the later.

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Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito

You've been playing for 3 years without a break? No wonder you feel jaded. Too much of a good thing will feel stale quickly.

I actually took a month break before the I14 launch, and now I'm rediscovering everything awesome. Rediscovering how to play my stalker, how beefy my scrapper is, how awesome Crab Spiders are, and how exhilarating warshades can be. And at the same time, I'm discovering some seriously well written arcs on the Architect.

Most of them are garbage, but if this feature - which has taken so long and caused so much pain to implement - grants us even one awesome arc, it will have been worth it.

Plus, I have a small insight into the world of games design, and I'm positive that the next issue is something these guys have been brewing for a very long time.

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Necrobond - 50 BS/Inv Scrapper made in I1
Rickar - 50 Bots/FF Mastermind
Anti-Muon - 42 Warshade
Ivory Sicarius - 45 Crab Spider
Aber ja, nat�rlich Hans nass ist, er steht unter einem Wasserfall.

I15 will be spectacular

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@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

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You've been playing for 3 years without a break? No wonder you feel jaded. Too much of a good thing will feel stale quickly.

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Now that I'll QFT. Breaks are good for you, if you love the game that much, just keep your subscription going while you take a break, that's what I do.

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Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito

Its quite easy:

Time changes, things changes.. everything will change some day or another. It is more the player who cannot accept these changes. Accept, adept and move on.

The basics that MA does, it not different from Oroboros. The thing newspaper can do, is the same as MA, but within a zone.

And i heard many people already, OMGORZ CO IS TEH BOXORROXOR! Yes, so was AoC, so was TR, so even was LK (but yet so dead easy and too many bored yet again).

Its not the content that makes the game, it is what you do with it. If you feel bored with 'doing', dont blame the developers to push more more content. The more they bring, often bigger, the faster you get bored with it, as its only an extention to what you already do.

Yes, i have critics on stuf they have released, or yet leaving behind after release, but i create my own fun within the game. Oroborus? I prob did a handfull of missions, that new roman zone? I only visited it.

If i dont feel wacking mobs or farming, i go into the sewers buffing people. Its so fun to see everyone go thx and thankyou and woo yeey and stuff. For what? Buffing a bunch of lowbies that cant even wack a lvl9 boss. I dont care for ubah IO's, i dont care for badges, just like i dont care for 226/229 items in LK, or all those ubah achievements. I care for my own fun only.

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50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore

Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!

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Its quite easy:

Time changes, things changes.. everything will change some day or another. It is more the player who cannot accept these changes. Accept, adept and move on.

The basics that MA does, it not different from Oroboros. The thing newspaper can do, is the same as MA, but within a zone.

And i heard many people already, OMGORZ CO IS TEH BOXORROXOR! Yes, so was AoC, so was TR, so even was LK (but yet so dead easy and too many bored yet again).

Its not the content that makes the game, it is what you do with it. If you feel bored with 'doing', dont blame the developers to push more more content. The more they bring, often bigger, the faster you get bored with it, as its only an extention to what you already do.

Yes, i have critics on stuf they have released, or yet leaving behind after release, but i create my own fun within the game. Oroborus? I prob did a handfull of missions, that new roman zone? I only visited it.

If i dont feel wacking mobs or farming, i go into the sewers buffing people. Its so fun to see everyone go thx and thankyou and woo yeey and stuff. For what? Buffing a bunch of lowbies that cant even wack a lvl9 boss. I dont care for ubah IO's, i dont care for badges, just like i dont care for 226/229 items in LK, or all those ubah achievements. I care for my own fun only.

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The difference being, the MA allows the creative bods among the player base to create some great arcs and stuff, negating the 'Been there, played it' feel, because there will ALWAYS be new arcs.
Unless of course people were silly enough to clog up the thing with tons of bilge and farm mission, and then pollute broadcast worse than PI ever was...
Waaait a minute...

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