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Why does melee actually fail against ranged toons at the moment?
Being Rooted for 1-2seconds when you use a skill
I think addressing that issue would require alot more time and effort but would improve the balance more so than tweaking suppression values, and would allow for suppression to be removed from pvp entirely then just increase the endurance cost of travel powers.
My own little idea
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Theres ways around it. A bane showed me that in sirens a month or so ago. He jumped into hurricane and then jumped out and activated the power as he was jumping out rendering
my max slotted tohit debuff hurricane useless also avoiding the repel. Sure he was still rooted when he used it but he overcame the the problem.
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Hurricanes ToHit debuff sticks around for 10 seconds so there's no benefit in doing that, in terms of being able to avoid the debuff. More likely he had +ToHit & maxed out Acc in his attacks.
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In PvP, if you run through hurricane and jump as you do the attack the to-hit debuff has dropped before you hit so it can't be 10 seconds in PvP.
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AFAIK mate that not WAI as its the same problem that force bubble has. For example, a toon with no repel protection can still melee shot a bubbler with jousting
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Why does melee actually fail against ranged toons at the moment?
Being Rooted for 1-2seconds when you use a skill
I think addressing that issue would require alot more time and effort but would improve the balance more so than tweaking suppression values, and would allow for suppression to be removed from pvp entirely then just increase the endurance cost of travel powers.
My own little idea
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Theres ways around it. A bane showed me that in sirens a month or so ago. He jumped into hurricane and then jumped out and activated the power as he was jumping out rendering
my max slotted tohit debuff hurricane useless also avoiding the repel. Sure he was still rooted when he used it but he overcame the the problem.
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Hurricanes ToHit debuff sticks around for 10 seconds so there's no benefit in doing that, in terms of being able to avoid the debuff. More likely he had +ToHit & maxed out Acc in his attacks.
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In PvP, if you run through hurricane and jump as you do the attack the to-hit debuff has dropped before you hit so it can't be 10 seconds in PvP.
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It says 10 seconds in Red Tomax too, no distinction between PvE and PvP mentioned so I assume its the same. Easy enough to check with Real Numbers anyway if you've got a handy Hurricaner to check with.
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I always monitor to-hit on my PvP toons and it shows that the debuff drops before i finish the TF animation (on my stalker) so i guess it's possible it lasts 5 seconds (at the most) certainly not 10 though.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
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I have done and frequently do. If you can't kill a blaster and definitely a troller with a stalker (without TP foe) your doing something wrong. Try practising more 
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A stalker cant kill a good blaster, permajump for the win and your lucky if you get 1 AS off in the whole fight.
Most blaster get clearminded so the stalker has no chance anyway.
Blaster: Superspeed + cj hopping around eventually the stalker can AS once, blaster jumps away hibernate or Phaseshift or Personalff, heals to full, uses ranged attacks etc etc.
It was possible to kill blasters as a stalker but only if the stalker used ET with the stun.
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What inventions did was bring WoW aspect to COH. I hate inventions now, and my opinion about ED has not changed. Still.
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Hate it or not, inventions or rather set bonus's filled the gaps left by ED.
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So are you assuming that every person gets their toons stacked with IO sets? More grind for a pvp toon, thats all. OR inbalance between one who has them and one who hasnt if you are assuming that the sets are necessary.
I can tell you that I stopped subbing instead of being arsed with IOs.
Lets introduce more GOALS that force people to play the same lackluster pve game longer instead of introducing meaningful game mechanics that keep people enjoying the ride more.. Thats how IOs were.
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I have done and frequently do. If you can't kill a blaster and definitely a troller with a stalker (without TP foe) your doing something wrong. Try practising more
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A stalker cant kill a good blaster, permajump for the win and your lucky if you get 1 AS off in the whole fight.
Most blaster get clearminded so the stalker has no chance anyway.
Blaster: Superspeed + cj hopping around eventually the stalker can AS once, blaster jumps away hibernate or Phaseshift or Personalff, heals to full, uses ranged attacks etc etc.
It was possible to kill blasters as a stalker but only if the stalker used ET with the stun.
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Sorry but what?
A good stalker can kill a good blaster with or without emp buffs. If your just dependant on AS then that is your main problem.
Stalkers can also get super speed and combat jumping so what's your point? They can also phase and a few sets have a self heal so they can also phase and heal to full.
Thing is though, a stalker can hide and placate so a good proportion of the fight the blaster can't even see his target (plenty of time to recover). If the stalker stays hidden and moving the blaster will never be able to hit you, clear mind or no clear mind.
It still is possible to kill a blaster on a stalker..... Quite easily.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
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A good stalker can kill a good blaster with or without emp buffs. If your just dependant on AS then that is your main problem.
Stalkers can also get super speed and combat jumping so what's your point? They can also phase and a few sets have a self heal so they can also phase and heal to full.
Thing is though, a stalker can hide and placate so a good proportion of the fight the blaster can't even see his target (plenty of time to recover). If the stalker stays hidden and moving the blaster will never be able to hit you, clear mind or no clear mind.
It still is possible to kill a blaster on a stalker..... Quite easily.
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You obviously never tried to kill a good blaster as a meele toon.
AS has a long animation time and the target needs to stand still.
A good blaster will NEVER stand still but hopp around like crazy or fly.
For your meele attacks to actually hit you need to get close to the blaster first which is almost impossible if he/she is superspeeding and jumping around.
The blaster can fire the attacks from range while hopping around, with no need to be close to the target, the meele toon cant.
There is a reason 95% of all hero PvP players have blasters or spine scrappers cause ranged burst damg is king in PvP not meele damg.
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You obviously never tried to kill a good blaster as a meele toon.
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Wrong person to say that too, Rent has killed a lot of good blasters, and last time i looked stalkers were melee chars.
Shockwave is another stalker ive seen kill plenty of them too.
Dosent mean melee didnt need a boost, this just aint it, in my opinion of course.
To be fair tho, a good blaster will not get killed by a stalker in a 10 minute arena duel.
Zone is a different story of course.
I remember playing a mate´s EM stalker, and lol, stacking loads off +dam from sets and dam proc´s , a stalker is fully capable off deeling with a blaster on its own, i see it almost every time in RV, hell even Spag have problems with some stalkers . And a stalker that needs a AS to kill isnt a very decent 1 tbh. I hardly ever use AS unless i find someone thats silly enough to stand still when stalkers are around. And with practise its even possible to land a AS on a jumping blaster, the very best stalkers on Union can pull those things off(shame its very few left now), its just a question how fast you are with timing it.
This goes for Zone´s tho, in a arena its very different.
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There is a reason 95% of all hero PvP players have blasters or spine scrappers cause ranged burst damg is king in PvP not meele damg.
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I'll start with a positive first. Your right, ranged spike damage is king at the moment. It's not the be all and end all of PvP though.
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You obviously never tried to kill a good blaster as a meele toon.
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I went through a stint where all i played was a stalker and i spent all my online time in RV. I've killed many a good blaster with a melee toon as that is what a stalker is.
Sure, i got creamed a fair few times my self as these blasters were very good and loldefence kind of lets me down sometimes. However, i still do well with my /ninjitsu despite the huge to-hit numbers blasters can get and that is down to the heal, hide and phase.
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AS has a long animation time and the target needs to stand still.
A good blaster will NEVER stand still but hopp around like crazy or fly.
For your meele attacks to actually hit you need to get close to the blaster first which is almost impossible if he/she is superspeeding and jumping around.
The blaster can fire the attacks from range while hopping around, with no need to be close to the target, the meele toon cant.
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Don't AS then. You don't have to use that power all the time. Thing is though Moghedien, you can AS a moving target. Takes a lot of practice but it is possible.
Yes the blaster can fire from range but every time they do so, they root. Those 2 seconds are plenty of time to close the gap and fire an attack off.
If they super speed off then chase them. If you have chose fly over super speed then you get the advantage of flying vertical to escape. Something a blaster with SS and SJ can't do. Same with TP.
Pro's and cons with all the travel powers.
If your on union send me a tell when your next in-game. It sounds like you've had a couple of bad experiences with villain melee toons which has tainted your perception a little. I'll happily show you how effective a stalker can be in zonal PvP.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
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To be fair tho, a good blaster will not get killed by a stalker in a 10 minute arena duel.
Zone is a different story of course.
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Yep this is true i some times have trouble with blasters in the arena on my stalker , but zone pvp even a good blaster is still an easy kill 99% of the time
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Food for thought: i13 suppression + slows will be silly OP
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Actually, slows will be majorly nerfed. The new suppression caps your speed, but slows work on your uncapped speed, so they will only have any effect at all if they slow you to below sprint speed.
And they are affected by diminishing returns to.
I really should do something about this signature.
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A good stalker can kill a good blaster with or without emp buffs. If your just dependant on AS then that is your main problem.
Stalkers can also get super speed and combat jumping so what's your point? They can also phase and a few sets have a self heal so they can also phase and heal to full.
Thing is though, a stalker can hide and placate so a good proportion of the fight the blaster can't even see his target (plenty of time to recover). If the stalker stays hidden and moving the blaster will never be able to hit you, clear mind or no clear mind.
It still is possible to kill a blaster on a stalker..... Quite easily.
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You obviously never tried to kill a good blaster as a meele toon.
AS has a long animation time and the target needs to stand still.
A good blaster will NEVER stand still but hopp around like crazy or fly.
For your meele attacks to actually hit you need to get close to the blaster first which is almost impossible if he/she is superspeeding and jumping around.
The blaster can fire the attacks from range while hopping around, with no need to be close to the target, the meele toon cant.
There is a reason 95% of all hero PvP players have blasters or spine scrappers cause ranged burst damg is king in PvP not meele damg.
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Incorrect. The target does not need to stand still for an AS to work. I suggest you look up or even try this power before being so wrong and shaming yourself on a public forum.
@Sweet Chilli
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Food for thought: i13 suppression + slows will be silly OP
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Actually, slows will be majorly nerfed. The new suppression caps your speed, but slows work on your uncapped speed, so they will only have any effect at all if they slow you to below sprint speed.
And they are affected by diminishing returns to.
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That's assuming the current power behaviour is unchanged in I13's PvP when it goes live.
Which is a long way from guaranteed, given that:
1) Basic power mechanics are already changed significantly in the closed beta version.
2) Internal NCSoft versions are significantly changed from the closed beta version.
3) What finally goes live may well be different again from the current internal NCSoft versions.
Essentially to try to assert now how things will work in the released I13 PvP is an exercise in guesswork.
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Incorrect. The target does not need to stand still for an AS to work. I suggest you look up or even try this power before being so wrong and shaming yourself on a public forum.
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Yeah this is kinda true, on my stalker i've managed to AS moving targets a number of times, it can be done with practice you just gotta get your timing spot on.
Also i think somwhere in this thread emp'd blasters were mentioned. It's pretty simple to kill this combo with a stalker just pwn the emp first, can be harder to kill some emps than others but you can AS between there buffs when they root to cast CM or Fort, doesnt give you much time but it can be done.
Well the point I was making is that the attacker has to stand still.
@Sweet Chilli
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A good stalker can kill a good blaster with or without emp buffs. If your just dependant on AS then that is your main problem.
Stalkers can also get super speed and combat jumping so what's your point? They can also phase and a few sets have a self heal so they can also phase and heal to full.
Thing is though, a stalker can hide and placate so a good proportion of the fight the blaster can't even see his target (plenty of time to recover). If the stalker stays hidden and moving the blaster will never be able to hit you, clear mind or no clear mind.
It still is possible to kill a blaster on a stalker..... Quite easily.
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You obviously never tried to kill a good blaster as a meele toon.
AS has a long animation time and the target needs to stand still.
A good blaster will NEVER stand still but hopp around like crazy or fly.
For your meele attacks to actually hit you need to get close to the blaster first which is almost impossible if he/she is superspeeding and jumping around.
The blaster can fire the attacks from range while hopping around, with no need to be close to the target, the meele toon cant.
There is a reason 95% of all hero PvP players have blasters or spine scrappers cause ranged burst damg is king in PvP not meele damg.
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Incorrect. The target does not need to stand still for an AS to work. I suggest you look up or even try this power before being so wrong and shaming yourself on a public forum.
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^this, learn to press buttons fast
As one of those new players for whom those changes were ostensibly made... I will try I13 PvP, although I still doubt it will fix things I really don't like about any sort of internet PvP. I wouldn't otherwise. Months of work to make PvPable toon (since those ATs/Powers I most enjopy in PvE aren't at all those that are competitive there) just to discover that I don't like PvP after all? I have other things to do. Really.
If I can see and meaningfully participate in PvP with any powerset, maybe with some respec, - that's another thing, and yes, I do understand that for the best results you will still need specialized toon. BUT there won't be that "months of work for total pig in a poke" factor.
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Good point also, though the argument on the US re: the newer players is one of mentality. That being, the difference between someone losing and thinking 'Hmm, I lost. I'll examine how and improve my playstyle/build/call in some friends to help' ...versus "omg, haxx! Nerf him!"
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This is a true case but... If the "I'll examine how to improve my playstyle/build/call in some friends to help" thing only boils down to picking the wrong powersets back when you created the character or needing a total respec to lose PvE effectiveness (admittedly, not that grave with dual builds coming) OR, IMO the worst thing, having to spend hundreds of millions of influence to even be at a competitive stage at PvP. This is where it all goes wrong. If you dont have the time to spend hundreds of hours / organized farming SG to get a lot of influence in a short time it doesn't really matter how good you are at PvP.
Even a noob with a billion inf build or the "right sets" can easily win a player with a generic IO/SO build or the "wrong sets".
Overall, I like the PvP changes and might even have a try at it. Currently the only thing that puts me off PvP is the need for an expensive build to even have a chance at beating the pro-PvPers.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
Waiting for it to come to open test (if it ever comes for us on EU).. to give some thoughts about the changes.
Since im not a number crusher or hardened pvp vet (only a pvp light atm (meaning I dont mind pvp... Attack me and i'll fight ya till either of us are down))
Allthough im still unsure about the healing bit...
Now if they could remove the ten minute timer after engaging an enemy.... (Hey I can dream can't I? (would be a nice reward though))
Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool
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Waiting for it to come to open test (if it ever comes for us on EU)
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Open beta will be available on the EU Training Room, as closely as possible with the US Open Beta commencing.
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Why does melee actually fail against ranged toons at the moment?
Being Rooted for 1-2seconds when you use a skill
I think addressing that issue would require alot more time and effort but would improve the balance more so than tweaking suppression values, and would allow for suppression to be removed from pvp entirely then just increase the endurance cost of travel powers.
My own little idea
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Theres ways around it. A bane showed me that in sirens a month or so ago. He jumped into hurricane and then jumped out and activated the power as he was jumping out rendering
my max slotted tohit debuff hurricane useless also avoiding the repel. Sure he was still rooted when he used it but he overcame the the problem.
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Hurricanes ToHit debuff sticks around for 10 seconds so there's no benefit in doing that, in terms of being able to avoid the debuff. More likely he had +ToHit & maxed out Acc in his attacks.
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In PvP, if you run through hurricane and jump as you do the attack the to-hit debuff has dropped before you hit so it can't be 10 seconds in PvP.
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It says 10 seconds in Red Tomax too, no distinction between PvE and PvP mentioned so I assume its the same. Easy enough to check with Real Numbers anyway if you've got a handy Hurricaner to check with.