New player experience sucks pretty bad right now

Mrs. Moo wanted to play a new scrapper this evening, so I rolled up a cold defender that I'd had an idea for. We went through the tutorial and then went to Atlas Park, simply for ease of travel to various locations. Usually we'd go to Galaxy to avoid the zone spam.

As we leveled to 5 (in a level pact), I heard several things that really bothered me. Most them would go in the farming thread, but a couple things really stood out:

"Looking for a team to fight enemies that hit back!"

and

"Aren't there any people here my level to team with? Where do I need to go to team with people under level 5?"

Before issue 14, the new player experience hadn't really changed since issue 5. Atlas was a hangout spot and a spot for newbies to get teams. The zone chatter was stupid, but zone chatter in most MMOs is stupid. For the most part, a new player could treat Atlas Park, and to a lesser extent, Galaxy City, as an extension of the tutorial and begin learning how to play the game.

With AE in Atlas and Galaxy, there is very suddenly a mix of experienced players with high level characters, experienced players with new characters, and inexperienced players with new characters. The inexperience players get thrust into activities the more experienced players are doing via AE missions.

A frequent groupmate told me yesterday he was grouping with a level 6 Kheld in King's Row doing newspaper missions. The Kheld was a new player. He'd started less than two weeks before. He was ecstatic to learn that there were other zones in the game and other stuff to do other than AE missions. He didn't know what a Taskforce or a Safeguard mission were.

This guy got really shortchanged by his new player experience. He fell in with a group of high-level players who power-leveled him to 50. His initial impression of the game is that you go into the Atlas AE bulding and never come out.


What changes should we make to avoid this kind of bad NPE?

I'd like to avoid debate topics here that should go into the farming thread. I want to exclusively focus on what steps can, should, and should not be taken to make Atlas and Galaxy more friendly and more conducive to hooking and landing new players.

If you were going to change things about the zones, what would you do?

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I'm guessing you played with her on Freedom?

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AE buildings out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's Row, yesterday.

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If you were going to change things about the zones, what would you do?

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Redesign AE so it can't be an EXP farm at any level.

The problems started with AE, they should end with AE.

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AE buildings out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's Row, yesterday.

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This.

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The solution is simple. You know how EATs unlock at level 50, right?

Well, don't allow a new account to access AE until they get any single character to at least level 25. I think that's fair, and will give them time to learn the game. And I think 25 is just fine to open up access to AE.

Once you get a character to 25, then AE is unlocked for the whole account.

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AE buildings out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's Row, yesterday.

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This.

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Removing the AE building from Atlas should do it. People flock to that one because Atlas is already a "gather point," not just because it's a low-level zone. Villains don't use the one in Mercy, they use Cap.

Lowbies do use the AE for actual player-made stories, you know.

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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

I doubt that just pulling it out of Atlas will do it; the lowbies will simply move to other lowbie zones.

At least in Steel a level 1 is going to encounter problems getting around unless they have a pal with tp. It's that risk vs. reward thing: with AE in the lowbie zones, they have big rewards with NO risk.

I say let's make them work for it a bit, like when they had to hike that level 2 all the way to PI. Let's give lowbies incentive to stay in Atlas and learn how to play a bit. They in no way, shape or form NEED to have an accessible AE building - in fact that is way too much temptation for them to withstand.

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AE buildings out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's Row, yesterday.

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Once you get a character to 25, then AE is unlocked for the whole account.

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I've heard both those suggestions and variations on them, such as AE was unlocked with the 3 Monrh Veteran badge. I like the removing the AE buildings for Atlas, Galaxy, and KR because it solves the problem of having new players exposed to group requests from experienced players with high-level characters.


Also, I think more work needs to be put into having 'teacher' NPCs. The Day Jobs Recruiter is a good example. City Rep could send you to a vendor who explains how to buy and sell. You'd then be sent to the Day Jobs requiter, after that, stick a mini-tailor into City Hall who can only change colors and chest details. She will tell you where to find the other iCon locations and the best routes for finding them.

Like I mentioned, I think Atlas should be an extension of the Tutorial zone. It should have some tutorial content.

Replace the AE building with a public library where patrons can read help-files and how-tos.

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Replace the AE building with a public library where patrons can read help-files and how-tos.

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Just imaginging the player response to that makes me laugh, although I think its a good idea. It would be like replacing a little kid's pizza and ice cream with broccoli and raw carrots: here come the tantrums. LOL!

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Alot has changed since AE moved in. I remember just a year ago waiting to see a sewer team forming so i could jump at it before it was full. Now lone people call for sewers and go unanswered. I honestly dont know how i feel about AE. Sometimes i like it to help me level through some rough spots but all in all I think it has done much more harm than good.

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The best part is that the library could be fully stocked with very little effort from our own 'Guides' section.


Interestingly, it occurs that you do publish other content there, such as the COH Comics, various 'approved' fanfics, and smple chapters of the 2 COH novels.

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I heartily agree with MOO's suggestions. It's 'cool' to do AE content, but not at the expense of learning how expansive the DEVELOPER content is.

Yes, I know, we outstripped their 5 years worth of work in 2 weeks, BUT... is it all content we feel is worth bragging about, honestly? It's what's known as Infinite Monkey Theorem - at some point, they'll write Shakespeare by random chance. The corollary is, you don't want to read everything ELSE they wrote.

We all may be tired of the dev content... but the new players have never seen it. They haven't seen the NPC text that War Witch has worked on, or the zone designs, or ... well you get the point.

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"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."

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AE buildings out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's Row, yesterday.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree with B_I.

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If you were going to change things about the zones, what would you do?

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The zones don't need to be changed, the players do.

If any new player would bother to read their mission text they'd realize there was more to the game than AP and AE. If they'd bother to look at the map and click the other tab they'd see there's more than one zone. Taking the AE out of AP won't fix stupid or lazy, but hey, they could take AE out of every zone for all I care.

Me, I'm going to CO when it comes out. Whether it sucks or not, at least it won't have AE and all the B.S. that seems to have accompanied it.

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AE buildings out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's Row, yesterday.

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I concur. There doesn't need to be an AE in every zone. Steel, Brickstown or Founder's Falls, PI, and mayhap Pocket D would suffice IMO.

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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

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Replace the AE building with a public library where patrons can read help-files and how-tos.

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Just imaginging the player response to that makes me laugh, although I think its a good idea. It would be like replacing a little kid's pizza and ice cream with broccoli and raw carrots: here come the tantrums. LOL!

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Very true... all the same, it is a wonderful idea!!

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I heartily agree with MOO's suggestions. It's 'cool' to do AE content, but not at the expense of learning how expansive the DEVELOPER content is.

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Been there. Done every arc in the game except Mako's, and I'm working on it. So have most of the vets rolling new alts.

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Yes, I know, we outstripped their 5 years worth of work in 2 weeks, BUT... is it all content we feel is worth bragging about, honestly? It's what's known as Infinite Monkey Theorem - at some point, they'll write Shakespeare by random chance. The corollary is, you don't want to read everything ELSE they wrote.


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The "quit arc" button is always there. That's the beauty of AE...if you're in an arc you don't like, you can quit, turn around, and start a new one. Whereas if you're in a dev arc you don't like...you have to get yourself a new contact, do tons of running and boring hunts and fed-exes to get to that contact's arc, and still be locked in the arc you didn't like until you finish it.

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We all may be tired of the dev content... but the new players have never seen it. They haven't seen the NPC text that War Witch has worked on, or the zone designs, or ... well you get the point.

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You guys are all making it sound like the big bad high-level people are FORCING new players to spend all their time in the AE. The kind of players who want fast xp...they're usually not the same people who enjoy removing all the fog-of-war from every zone, or giggle at NPC dialogue, or read the story arcs. Even if those immersion- and exploration-oriented people initially get sucked into AE teams, nothing is keeping them there, and I have met several players who tried AE for a while and refuse to go back.

Oh and by the way, every time I go to Kings Row or Port Oakes I see people in broadcast both looking for and forming teams to run dev-created content.

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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

I agree with removing AE from the lowbie zones. I wouldn't agree with making them level or veteran restricted. I'm sure there are a number of new users who want to try out CoH for the express purpose of creating and playing their own content. Limiting that to 3+ month old accounts would be a bad move.

Level gating it isn't quite as bad, but I think the easiest solution is to simply remove AE from the lowbie zones as already stated. Making the first one you encounter the one in Steel is a soft form of level gating that still allows lowbies the chance to participate. It also jives with the Invention system, which is formally introduced to a character at level 10 and with the first university being in Steel as well.

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If you were going to change things about the zones, what would you do?

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The zones don't need to be changed, the players do.

If any new player would bother to read their mission text they'd realize there was more to the game than AP and AE. If they'd bother to look at the map and click the other tab they'd see there's more than one zone. Taking the AE out of AP won't fix stupid or lazy, but hey, they could take AE out of every zone for all I care.

Me, I'm going to CO when it comes out. Whether it sucks or not, at least it won't have AE and all the B.S. that seems to have accompanied it.



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I hate the way their characters look so much, though. Really hate how they're shaded, dont know if I could tolerate that.

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I heartily agree with MOO's suggestions. It's 'cool' to do AE content, but not at the expense of learning how expansive the DEVELOPER content is.


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i remember reading that AE accomplished making more content in one day than the devs have made in 5 years.

when i dinged on my first 50 ourobos had just came out and basically i went threw all the missions villain side it didn't take that long which in turn unfortunately i saw all the content in the game.

which in turn had me get bored of the game "villain side" .

people missing out on wonderful dev content?
not hardly.

that's what odorous is for

what the real issue is people are having to put a little more effort into finding teams and dealing with spam .

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I hate the way their characters look so much, though. Really hate how they're shaded, dont know if I could tolerate that.

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My first thought when I saw the videos and screenies of the game... WoW on acid. Doesn't appeal to me one bit.

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You can't unring a bell.

Positron tried to do that post-AE launch and I can still toast marshmellows on the resulting threads.

Live and learn, I guess.

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At least on redside, I'd hate it if AE were removed from Mercy. If I have to do Kalinda and Burke's arcs, or chase Longbow around an instance map for the Radio one more time, I'm going to go nuts. Eventually, I'll probably get sick of the available lowbie AE missions, but at the moment, it's great to have a little variety.

I haven't noticed a huge drop in teaming, but then, I tend to play on Liberty and Pinnacle.

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"No boom *today*. Boom tomorrow. There's always boom tomorrow."
--Lt. Commander Susan Ivanova

I would definitely want to see Architect buildings removed from any zone under level 10. This means Atlas Park, Galaxy City, King's Row, Mercy Island and Port Oaks. People keep citing "But I've done it levelventy billion times!" and conveniently forget that the POINT of this is to keep NEW people from getting sucked into the cycle of powerlevelling to 50. Missing good developer-made content? You betcha! As amazing as it may seem, not everyone is a five-year veteran who's seen everything a zillion times over. Some people, and indeed the people we need to do the most for, are brand new to the game, looking for a cool new game that's worth $15 a month to play. Is anyone here seriously suggesting that the first thing they should be exposed to is a grinding farm to 50? Seriously?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't want to meddle in other people's affairs. You want to farm and grind, go for it. I do NOT, however, want this to be the public face of the game that all new players get to see. I don't want them to think that that's all there is to the game, because there isn't. This is becoming seriously hurtful to the game, and at this point I DO want to meddle in other people's business because this is NOT what new players should be seeing. It cannot be said enough times.

I believe putting an Architect building in EVERY DAMN ZONE was a mistake, specifically since you can't do cross-building arcs anyway. In very much the same way, I believe putting half a dozen Merit Vendors in every zone and at every location one might stop at was a mistake, as well. There's no need for these things to be all over the place and in everybody's face.

Putting the Architect buildings in higher-level zones does nothing to keep the "jaded veterans" from getting to them, as anyone who's been here for a while can get to, say, mid-town Steel Canyon or up to Cap Au Diable. It takes a bit of practice, but that's what you get by playing the game a lot. What you accomplish, however, is keeping the broadcast spam and the constant invitations to "AE Farms" out of the way of new players until they've gotten at least SOME feel for the game.

Let 50s farm all they want. Let 50-month vets powerlevel their alts to their hearts' content. But keep them AWAY from new players to the game.

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