New player experience sucks pretty bad right now
By
Adult_Swim,
Posted on: 2009-07-09 22:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Well. Thats a tough one.
You have people that use it as intended that have to deal with the other stuff that goes on.
You have new trial members who don't realize anything but AE exists.
You have the Vets who just want to use it for whatever they feel like at any given time.
Suggestions for the AE trial debacle seem to be the primary focus of what needs to be fixed. Doing that without impacting or limiting the other activities and still keep it in line with what they want it to achieve is a tall order.
Like you said how it plays out may not be what some people end up wanting. Used as intended I think its a good thing. Used as it is now I feel like its just going to keep corrupting the trial populations.
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AmazingMOO wrote:
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I want to exclusively focus on what steps can, should, and should not be taken to make... more friendly and more conducive to hooking...
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In a "Rated T for Teen" game? <gasp>
--NT
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LOL 
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Well. Thats a tough one.
You have people that use it as intended that have to deal with the other stuff that goes on.
You have new trial members who don't realize anything but AE exists.
You have the Vets who just want to use it for whatever they feel like at any given time.
Suggestions for the AE trial debacle seem to be the primary focus of what needs to be fixed. Doing that without impacting or limiting the other activities and still keep it in line with what they want it to achieve is a tall order.
Like you said how it plays out may not be what some people end up wanting. Used as intended I think its a good thing. Used as it is now I feel like its just going to keep corrupting the trial populations.
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The issue though I don't think is just if AE is used as intended. Even if it were used as intended and a trial person did REGULAR non-farm AE missions from 1-50, there is still the high possibility that they might never see any other zone.
The issue is how do you expose these people to non-AE missions and get them to want to do those as much as the AE. As stated by others already, farming IS NOT the sole thing that makes doing nothing but AE convenient.
For COV travel is not an issue, as most content is contained in level ranges in the same zones.
For COH, where older contacts still to this day send you all over paragon and back, yeah I can see why the allure of having missions in one place is great for some folks.
Part of the issue is also that the older content (whether high or low--I mean when was the last time any new contetn was added to PI for instance--and that zone has existed for how many issues now?) hasn't been revamped in a long time. Though that's more of a vet issue, admittedly.
My point is even if AE were to be used as was intended (1-50 story content, no farming), it STILL would breed folks asking in b-cast asking stuff like:
What's Oroborus?
Where do I go to get my second costume?
What's Cimerora?
Doing nothing but AE from 1-50 (non farm or not), you would not be exposed to ANY of those things.
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Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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In theory, this is all balanced by there being no "end of mission" reward in terms of XP/Influence/Prestige. In practice...not so much.
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Don't forget that patrol xp bonuses don't work inside MA arcs, although the Dev Choices destroy both penalties.
I'll throw in my suggestion. As the MA was supposed to be all about players enjoying the stories of others, how about an incentive to diversify your experience? Say, first run of a MA arc gives full value as now, second gives half and third a quarter with subsequent runs giving nothing at all. Set it on say a 24-48 hour timer. You can still go to 50 on MA arcs but you have more incentive to do it the 'right' way by experiencing a broader range of content and not just farms. I'm not certain how many farm arcs exist but a potential farmer would now have to keep changing from arc to arc and track which ones had been done and which were still available for rewards. Combine with the typical 'churn' of teams gaining and losing members and you create a real problem for farming teams while creating no real issue for story aficionados.
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
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AE buildings out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's Row, yesterday.
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A better solution: make the level of the AE mission dependent on the level of the zone, the same way that radio missions are. That is, if you're in Atlas, you can only play AE missions that are up to level 10. If you're in KR, you can run AE missions up to level 15. In PI and GV you can get any level mission.
That means that newbies have to go to PI or GV to run those auto-SK-to-46 farming missions.
It'll hearken back to the "good old days" of PLing at Portal Corp, and reduce the double whammy of AE and costume contests in Atlas.
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I'll throw in my suggestion. As the MA was supposed to be all about players enjoying the stories of others, how about an incentive to diversify your experience? Say, first run of a MA arc gives full value as now, second gives half and third a quarter with subsequent runs giving nothing at all. Set it on say a 24-48 hour timer. You can still go to 50 on MA arcs but you have more incentive to do it the 'right' way by experiencing a broader range of content and not just farms. I'm not certain how many farm arcs exist but a potential farmer would now have to keep changing from arc to arc and track which ones had been done and which were still available for rewards. Combine with the typical 'churn' of teams gaining and losing members and you create a real problem for farming teams while creating no real issue for story aficionados.
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That could be bypassed by having lots of missions stored and unpublishing/publishing
Make AE more similar to newspaper missions? After so many get introduced to a new contact outside of AE perhaps?
If not a mission contact unlock then maybe give them an option who to contact to visit a new zone, the same way the AE contact was introduced.
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AE buildings out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's Row, yesterday.
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A better solution: make the level of the AE mission dependent on the level of the zone, the same way that radio missions are. That is, if you're in Atlas, you can only play AE missions that are up to level 10. If you're in KR, you can run AE missions up to level 15. In PI and GV you can get any level mission.
That means that newbies have to go to PI or GV to run those auto-SK-to-46 farming missions.
It'll hearken back to the "good old days" of PLing at Portal Corp, and reduce the double whammy of AE and costume contests in Atlas.
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You'll still have broadcast spam for AE farms though.
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AE buildings out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's Row, yesterday.
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A better solution: make the level of the AE mission dependent on the level of the zone, the same way that radio missions are. That is, if you're in Atlas, you can only play AE missions that are up to level 10. If you're in KR, you can run AE missions up to level 15. In PI and GV you can get any level mission.
That means that newbies have to go to PI or GV to run those auto-SK-to-46 farming missions.
It'll hearken back to the "good old days" of PLing at Portal Corp, and reduce the double whammy of AE and costume contests in Atlas.
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I made that suggestion in a diff thread of the same type 
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AE buildings out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's Row, yesterday.
[/ QUOTE ]
A better solution: make the level of the AE mission dependent on the level of the zone, the same way that radio missions are. That is, if you're in Atlas, you can only play AE missions that are up to level 10. If you're in KR, you can run AE missions up to level 15. In PI and GV you can get any level mission.
That means that newbies have to go to PI or GV to run those auto-SK-to-46 farming missions.
It'll hearken back to the "good old days" of PLing at Portal Corp, and reduce the double whammy of AE and costume contests in Atlas.
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Note: while there is an AE building in PI, there isn't one in GV. Villains would have to go to the RWZ, which is level gated at 35, for arcs higher than level 40.
Even discounting the parity issue, I think that simply removing the AE buildings from the lowbie zones is the better solution. Let them learn to travel between zones first, then they can PL to their heart's content.
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I have a different idea I haven't seen suggested in this thread yet (sorry if it has):
Expand the tutorial zone.
Add branching dialogue and contacts so players can learn more about their specific Archetype. Allow more leveling, up to level 5 or maybe even 10 should they choose to hang around there long enough.
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This would be a good help and newbie Dominators could really put it to use.
agree with what Lightslinger had said.
Here is a crazy idea. Instead of nerfing AE, critters, and powers to heck, would AE still still be playable if it gave no salvage, enh. recipes, and only gave kill xp/inf? I would still play story arcs, the CoX community has many creative minds.
Sorry for the runon, came back from running, head hurt =/
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In theory, this is all balanced by there being no "end of mission" reward in terms of XP/Influence/Prestige. In practice...not so much.
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So make AE missions use real doors in the game world and allow mission creators some control over where those doors are placed. The game world is interesting to look at and travel powers exist and are popular for a reason. Don't lock us in the antiseptic green AE building, just because we want to run player generated content.
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What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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This has already been talked about quite a bit.
Here's my main idea that will take care of this issue instantly if it is implemented.
https://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthre...ue#Post13595973
The first idea does nothing about the farming issues other driving characters out of lower level zones in order to use the AE -- which strikes directly to the point of your post.
The second idea adds to the first idea to reduce the speed that characters can be power leveled. This shouldn't be an issue as the DEVs have clearly state that they don't want the AE used as a farming or power-leveling tool.
Ok..I have not read the whole thread...but at least half so if this has been brought up I missed it.
Let's look at a different angle. AE is supposed to be an "entertainment" company with fancy holo suites for people to "play" in, am I correct? If that is the case, then you should have to pay (infamy/influence) for your time in those holo suites, like putting quarters in your pac-man machine.
There should be a set rate of cost per mission in a story. That cost should go up based on the level of each story. Lowbie missions against lowbie critters cost less than Level 54 missions full of bosses. I would completely remove infamy/influence as a reward as well as enhancement drops and leave inspiration and tickets as your reward for playing at the entertainment site. I would still reward experience because you can treat AE missions as training. To me prestige is a personal choice, you can turn that on or off at will if someone wants to earn prestige as well that is fine by me.
A new player will have to go out into the world and earn some money before he can go to the entertainment building and play in the holo suites. High level toons that want to play high level missions will pay a higher premium. If you want to lackey a lowbie, the lowbie has to come up with the money to play the high level content to get the high level XP rewards...no more free rides.
If you keep the cost of lowbie missions cheap enough and they can turn in tickets for their training enhancments if they wish to get them but they have to go outside to earn more cash to play AE new players will get the experience of more content. If it costs you 50k (completely random number) to run a single level 54 mish, not many brand new players could do that. They will pay the 40 bucks it costs to run that level 10 mish.
Vets that want to PL will just float cash to their lowbies so they can play whatever farm is hot that day. No more begging for a PL because somebody has to pay for it..literally (well literally in game money)
I think the current ticket drop rate and XP is more than ample reward. You can make quite a good living and outfit your toon on ticket drops alone.
This was a spur of the moment idea and I rambled a bit but I think it could just work. You can now all procede to punch a zillion holes in my little idea 
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Tanker Tuesdays & Brutal Thursdays. If you like fun, look'em up!
Shhh! Rangle is plotting.
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This has already been talked about quite a bit.
Here's my main idea that will take care of this issue instantly if it is implemented.
https://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthre...ue#Post13595973
The first idea does nothing about the farming issues other driving characters out of lower level zones in order to use the AE -- which strikes directly to the point of your post.
The second idea adds to the first idea to reduce the speed that characters can be power leveled. This shouldn't be an issue as the DEVs have clearly state that they don't want the AE used as a farming or power-leveling tool.
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Honestly I doubt it will take core of it instantly. I rather like the idea of placing AE mission doors into the actual game and bypassing the whole virtual world thing.
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MMOs are about balance and even if you take farming out of the equation, AE is not balanced.
-Regular missions have contacts you have to earn/find, then continually travel to until you get their cell. AE puts the contact right next to you.
-Regular missions have doors that can be on the other end of the zone or even in another zone entirely. AE always has the door right next to you.
-If you want to go to the hospital in a regular mission it could put you hundreds of yards away from the mission door, the AE hospital always puts you right next to the mission door.
-Random missions give you random salvage and recipe drops. AE tickets allow you to more selectively choose your drops.
-If you're having to buy enhancements with influence you will have to find a vendor selling your Origin, then you'll have to wade through the sometimes oddly named inventory list (curse you Magic Origin). If you use AE tickets you travel a few feet to a single person who offers not only every type of regular enhancement, they even have a nifty menu that lets you select the type of enhancement you're looking for.
These are just a few of the examples of how convenient AE is compared to regular content. Why does AE not have ANY downfalls to balance all of its amazing features that dwarf the regular content?
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In theory, this is all balanced by there being no "end of mission" reward in terms of XP/Influence/Prestige. In practice...not so much.
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Nice reply to a thread jack, but what about the OP's point?
I posted my fix quite a while ago ::
https://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthre...ue#Post13595973
What would your idea be to improve the new player experience that has been pretty much ruined by lower-level zone pollution caused by the AE?
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Ok..I have not read the whole thread...but at least half so if this has been brought up I missed it.
Let's look at a different angle. AE is supposed to be an "entertainment" company with fancy holo suites for people to "play" in, am I correct? If that is the case, then you should have to pay (infamy/influence) for your time in those holo suites, like putting quarters in your pac-man machine.
There should be a set rate of cost per mission in a story. That cost should go up based on the level of each story. Lowbie missions against lowbie critters cost less than Level 54 missions full of bosses. I would completely remove infamy/influence as a reward as well as enhancement drops and leave inspiration and tickets as your reward for playing at the entertainment site. I would still reward experience because you can treat AE missions as training. To me prestige is a personal choice, you can turn that on or off at will if someone wants to earn prestige as well that is fine by me.
A new player will have to go out into the world and earn some money before he can go to the entertainment building and play in the holo suites. High level toons that want to play high level missions will pay a higher premium. If you want to lackey a lowbie, the lowbie has to come up with the money to play the high level content to get the high level XP rewards...no more free rides.
If you keep the cost of lowbie missions cheap enough and they can turn in tickets for their training enhancments if they wish to get them but they have to go outside to earn more cash to play AE new players will get the experience of more content. If it costs you 50k (completely random number) to run a single level 54 mish, not many brand new players could do that. They will pay the 40 bucks it costs to run that level 10 mish.
Vets that want to PL will just float cash to their lowbies so they can play whatever farm is hot that day. No more begging for a PL because somebody has to pay for it..literally (well literally in game money)
I think the current ticket drop rate and XP is more than ample reward. You can make quite a good living and outfit your toon on ticket drops alone.
This was a spur of the moment idea and I rambled a bit but I think it could just work. You can now all procede to punch a zillion holes in my little idea
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This makes some amount of sense... but it would open up yet one more market opportunity for the RMT gold farmers - people who were out of in-game cash for their holosuite fix.
And as much as I'd like to see this mess cleaned up... if the solution opens up more business to THOSE guys? Nope. Let's try something else first, please.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
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MMOs are about balance and even if you take farming out of the equation, AE is not balanced.
-Regular missions have contacts you have to earn/find, then continually travel to until you get their cell. AE puts the contact right next to you.
-Regular missions have doors that can be on the other end of the zone or even in another zone entirely. AE always has the door right next to you.
-If you want to go to the hospital in a regular mission it could put you hundreds of yards away from the mission door, the AE hospital always puts you right next to the mission door.
-Random missions give you random salvage and recipe drops. AE tickets allow you to more selectively choose your drops.
-If you're having to buy enhancements with influence you will have to find a vendor selling your Origin, then you'll have to wade through the sometimes oddly named inventory list (curse you Magic Origin). If you use AE tickets you travel a few feet to a single person who offers not only every type of regular enhancement, they even have a nifty menu that lets you select the type of enhancement you're looking for.
These are just a few of the examples of how convenient AE is compared to regular content. Why does AE not have ANY downfalls to balance all of its amazing features that dwarf the regular content?
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Well said. I really think the answer is just lower (not necessarily drastically) AE rewards. People who play for story and aren't focused on leveling won't care, but the farms go bye bye.
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True, to a certain extent, but if they plan to use AE to make the megazillions they are selling then paying for the use of said tool cuts their margins considerably, especially if the mish offers no influence/infamy reward itself. They have to turn in their tickets and sell stuff to make any sellable infamy/influence. I have no real knowledge of exactly how they make their zillions or if this would really affect them but I think it might
If the lowbie missions are cheap enough you do not have to buy 100 mil to run them. You go outside and beat up a dozen hellions, run a regular mish, do a paper/scanner or spend 15 minutes in the sewers then go back to your AE fun. Part of this idea is to get "new" players to experience other content.
The Revenants and Vengeance Imperium-Triumph, Champion & now flavoring Justice!
Tanker Tuesdays & Brutal Thursdays. If you like fun, look'em up!
Shhh! Rangle is plotting.
I could potentially see removing the AE building from AP and Galaxy but not KR. People aren't going to flock to KR anyway if that happens. Just removing it from AP will have peopel congregating in Steel Canyon the same reason Villains congregate in Cap Au.
I would also like to see the mission we do scattered around at the discretion of the author. Let us pick a zone and have a random door assigned that we have to goto . It would improve story telling and help people see the larger world.
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MMOs are about balance and even if you take farming out of the equation, AE is not balanced.
-Regular missions have contacts you have to earn/find, then continually travel to until you get their cell. AE puts the contact right next to you.
-Regular missions have doors that can be on the other end of the zone or even in another zone entirely. AE always has the door right next to you.
-If you want to go to the hospital in a regular mission it could put you hundreds of yards away from the mission door, the AE hospital always puts you right next to the mission door.
-Random missions give you random salvage and recipe drops. AE tickets allow you to more selectively choose your drops.
-If you're having to buy enhancements with influence you will have to find a vendor selling your Origin, then you'll have to wade through the sometimes oddly named inventory list (curse you Magic Origin). If you use AE tickets you travel a few feet to a single person who offers not only every type of regular enhancement, they even have a nifty menu that lets you select the type of enhancement you're looking for.
These are just a few of the examples of how convenient AE is compared to regular content. Why does AE not have ANY downfalls to balance all of its amazing features that dwarf the regular content?
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Well said. I really think the answer is just lower (not necessarily drastically) AE rewards. People who play for story and aren't focused on leveling won't care, but the farms go bye bye.
[/ QUOTE ]Maybe, really that depends on a very precarious number balance. Lemmie get it out of the way i wouldnt mind it, ae has added conveninces vurses standard contacts, so reducing the rewards is no issue to me, i really dow ant to see funny/clever stories, but i dunno. Farming is what it is because they can skew the rewards system, make guys that are no threat to your powerset, set them to rush you so you can aoe nuke them, whaever, im not a farmer so i dont know exactly what they do, but it seems to always break down to the fact that they can set the rewards to come to them at a lower risk and time investment, so the math would either really take a whack at rewards to negate all the spawning and weakness manipulation tricks, or it will still mathematically easier for farmers to keep in ae than going to greener fields.
So again, i dont disagree with this solution, but im not sure if you are considering how much rewards would need cut to really break the convenience that right now is feeding the farmer. There will be massive forum drama if they follow your advice, so have your loins sufficiently girded.
waa? Ae ruined my game. PvP ruined my game. Regen scrappers ruined my game.
The only person to put a damper on the game was Jack Emmert....the only person to ruin your game is you.
AmazingMOO wrote:
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I want to exclusively focus on what steps can, should, and should not be taken to make... more friendly and more conducive to hooking...
[/ QUOTE ]
In a "Rated T for Teen" game? <gasp>
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville