New player experience sucks pretty bad right now

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MMOs are about balance and even if you take farming out of the equation, AE is not balanced.

-Regular missions have contacts you have to earn/find, then continually travel to until you get their cell. AE puts the contact right next to you.

-Regular missions have doors that can be on the other end of the zone or even in another zone entirely. AE always has the door right next to you.

-If you want to go to the hospital in a regular mission it could put you hundreds of yards away from the mission door, the AE hospital always puts you right next to the mission door.

-Random missions give you random salvage and recipe drops. AE tickets allow you to more selectively choose your drops.

-If you're having to buy enhancements with influence you will have to find a vendor selling your Origin, then you'll have to wade through the sometimes oddly named inventory list (curse you Magic Origin). If you use AE tickets you travel a few feet to a single person who offers not only every type of regular enhancement, they even have a nifty menu that lets you select the type of enhancement you're looking for.

These are just a few of the examples of how convenient AE is compared to regular content. Why does AE not have ANY downfalls to balance all of its amazing features that dwarf the regular content?

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In theory, this is all balanced by there being no "end of mission" reward in terms of XP/Influence/Prestige. In practice...not so much.

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OK all well and good, BUT... have the Devs explicitly stated that they want you to level your first character from 1-50 within the MA?

To my knowledge, they have not.

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I don't think they have to. As has been pointed out, if you're paying money for the "Architect Edition" of CoH, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to actually be able to use AE from the get-go.

Now, that said, I agree that a new player going into the AE building at level 1 and going 1-50 without ever seeing the rest of the game is a Bad Thing. Doubly so if it's because they think its their only feasible option for keeping up. However, I think that said new player should also have the option to use the features they were sold on.

The consensus I'm hearing is that the problem isn't that the AE is making people not know how to play- it's that people are using it to PL en masse, and therefore they don't get the experience to know how to play their characters. I don't think there's anything about the dev-created content that intrinsically leads to revelations about how to play the game, outside of the tutorials.

If people can be made to play "normally" within the AE, which is to say running missions that don't take the time/reward curve, strap it into a gimp suit and make it call you "mommy", I think that would be every bit as effective at curtailing the rampant n00bery, while limiting this feeling of "hey, why can't I play the game like everyone else?"

However, as I said in my first post, I do agree that the AE buildings don't have any place within the lower level zones. Out of sight, out of mind. I just think that instead of hard-locking people out of the AE content, there should be a means by which it can both be used by the newbies and let them experience the game.

In fact, another idea popped in my head as I was writing this- I don't feel that first time players should be barred from using the MA. You think they should be level gated to prevent PLing. The middle ground would be that until at least one character on the account reaches X level, the MA may be used, but no rewards are given. A new player can try out custom missions and such, but can't PL.

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My story arcs: #2370- Noah Reborn, #18672- The Clockwork War, #31490- Easy Money

Sartre once said, "Hell is other people." What does that make an MMO?

It's good to see that a red-name is following this discussion and that there's some acknowledgement that it may be a problem (unless I read too much into Castle's post).

I'm with most of the posters in this thread. I don't think AE needs to be changed as much as it needs to be moved out of the newbie zones.

The biggest reason: When CO goes online, and later DCUO, there is going to be some natural churn from those games and that's going to give us a big influx of newbies that we don't currently have. I'm in total agreement that we do not want brand spanking new players to reach the impression that the AE experience is what City of Heroes is supposed to be all about.

It's incredibly easy for an experienced player to take a new level 2 character and run into IP or Steel for a costume change. Experienced players will suffer very little in the way of detriment or inconvenience if the AE buldings are removed from Atlas Park and Galaxy City. King's Row I'm on the fence about, but I certainly have no problem with the idea of removing that also. Leaving it where it is would mean that vets leveling lowbies would be able to exit the building occasionally to do their training and they could return easily via Pocket D, so the inconvenience would really be very minimal.

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AE buildings out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's Row, yesterday.

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I agree. I never understood why the Developers decided AE buildings needed to be in so many zones. Out of all the things to put into practically ever zones, they did AE? It seems half of these buildings don't even really get used.

Can I get something more useful in every zone? I mean, can we get Went Worths or Universities or Vault Reserves or Icon Stores in every zone? AE buildings are great, but do we need them in Brickstown, Founders, IP, Galaxy, Skyway, etc?

And yeah, I think AE needs to be tweaked to be less farmable and the building pulled out of Atlas. SC is a good enough "Gathering spot" for people. If lowbies want to use one, leave the one in KR, that should be fine enough, but Atlas is too busy as it is to have an AE building there too. Too much stuff going on in that zone which can be overwhelming to new players.

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"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker

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MMOs are about balance and even if you take farming out of the equation, AE is not balanced.

-Regular missions have contacts you have to earn/find, then continually travel to until you get their cell. AE puts the contact right next to you.

-Regular missions have doors that can be on the other end of the zone or even in another zone entirely. AE always has the door right next to you.

-If you want to go to the hospital in a regular mission it could put you hundreds of yards away from the mission door, the AE hospital always puts you right next to the mission door.

-Random missions give you random salvage and recipe drops. AE tickets allow you to more selectively choose your drops.

-If you're having to buy enhancements with influence you will have to find a vendor selling your Origin, then you'll have to wade through the sometimes oddly named inventory list (curse you Magic Origin). If you use AE tickets you travel a few feet to a single person who offers not only every type of regular enhancement, they even have a nifty menu that lets you select the type of enhancement you're looking for.

These are just a few of the examples of how convenient AE is compared to regular content. Why does AE not have ANY downfalls to balance all of its amazing features that dwarf the regular content?

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In theory, this is all balanced by there being no "end of mission" reward in terms of XP/Influence/Prestige. In practice...not so much.

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Agreed, when AE is being used for actual story arcs, the lack of an end of mission bonus does balance it. However, when a team is mowing down all Boss spawns fast the lack of the bonus isn't even noticeable.

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AE buildings out of Atlas, Galaxy and King's Row, yesterday.

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You know the more of these crop up, the more I agree. At leas tiwth Atlas and Galaxy. I love AE. I love it as a storytelling tool, and yes, by God, I love it as a farming tool I wouldn't touch a thing about ti. But its not too much to ask vets to take 15 seconds to move one zone over to start the sprint to 50 in order to clear some breathing room for new players.

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One of the features they promoted in the AE was levelling from 1-50 just in AE conent. They definitely delivered on that. I really don't think any curbing of low levels using the AE is going to happen.

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MMOs are about balance and even if you take farming out of the equation, AE is not balanced.

-Regular missions have contacts you have to earn/find, then continually travel to until you get their cell. AE puts the contact right next to you.

-Regular missions have doors that can be on the other end of the zone or even in another zone entirely. AE always has the door right next to you.

-If you want to go to the hospital in a regular mission it could put you hundreds of yards away from the mission door, the AE hospital always puts you right next to the mission door.

-Random missions give you random salvage and recipe drops. AE tickets allow you to more selectively choose your drops.

-If you're having to buy enhancements with influence you will have to find a vendor selling your Origin, then you'll have to wade through the sometimes oddly named inventory list (curse you Magic Origin). If you use AE tickets you travel a few feet to a single person who offers not only every type of regular enhancement, they even have a nifty menu that lets you select the type of enhancement you're looking for.

These are just a few of the examples of how convenient AE is compared to regular content. Why does AE not have ANY downfalls to balance all of its amazing features that dwarf the regular content?

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In theory, this is all balanced by there being no "end of mission" reward in terms of XP/Influence/Prestige. In practice...not so much.

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Would increasin Non-AE content mission bonuses be a decent idea? I would highly suggest spreading the Story Arc Reward Bonus to the entire team instead of just the leader.

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In theory, this is all balanced by there being no "end of mission" reward in terms of XP/Influence/Prestige. In practice...not so much.

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No thingummy ever survives contact with the doodah, and all that.

So... any plans to change anything? Never hurts to ask.

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One of the features they promoted in the AE was levelling from 1-50 just in AE conent. They definitely delivered on that. I really don't think any curbing of low levels using the AE is going to happen.

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I wouldn't be surprised to see a new meter for Architect XP introduced, which worked a lot like Patrol XP except it would give you full XP in Architect missions instead of half XP (half XP being the new base rate). That way, people could still level from 1 to 50 in the MA, but would have an incentive not to stay there 24/7.

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I think increasing the xp/inf/prestige from normal content would probably be the best way to go along with a slight increase to mission completion xp. Especially the xp from bosses and lieutenants. Oh and remove hami mitos from AE.

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Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.

It still wouldn't curb whats happening. Theyd just do more of it to compensate.

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I still agree with suggestion in the Suggestion Thread (how redundant...), which stated that Street Sweeper should yield higher amounts of Prestige, Experience and Influence. The basis for this idea revolves around your deeds being witnessed in public for all to see (which should spread your heroic tales, fights and victories).

How it would work for Villains? Well, let's just try to figure that out later, shall we?

I am still behind increasing Mission Reward Bonuses and allowing Story Arc Bonus Completion EXP to be spread to the entire team not just the leader. Boosting Street Sweeping, Dev Content Rewards, and even story arc bonuses would give people other occupying things than the AE.

Still I'm sure there are flaws in that plan people will point out to me blatantly

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I think increasing the xp/inf/prestige from normal content would probably be the best way to go along with a slight increase to mission completion xp. Especially the xp from bosses and lieutenants. Oh and remove hami mitos from AE.

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Increasing these things is a bad idea from a design point of view. The more items you increase the harder is to take away later, especially in regards to static things like xp caps. Where there is exceedingly high caps in place, like influence, and these are relationary to the player-base (ie. economy) these inter-ralationary models will become broken in time.

It's far better to lower (or do nothing) the parts that are having the earliest negative effect than changing things which are outside the scope of the issue.

In short, bad idea for numerous reasons.

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In theory, this is all balanced by there being no "end of mission" reward in terms of XP/Influence/Prestige. In practice...not so much.

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Thank you castle - A point i have been trying to get across in regards to content balance (AE and Normal).

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My feeling is that any solution has to take into account one thing: The devs want the player to be able to level 1-50 in the MA.

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It would be interesting to know what the developers really think of this statement in retrospect.

I would not be one bit surprised to find out by dint of future game-changes that they've had second thoughts about that, since its creating problems for new players as in, lack of knowledge. You know those changes.... when they change stuff without exactly stating WHY it was changed, but anyone with functional grey-matter can figure it out.

I think veteran players deciding to level 1-50 in MA is their business. But its not just veterans, suddenly every last character in the game has GOT to run only MA, all the time.

Was on a mid-teens mission team in Steel the other day, we were running scanners. We had several people come in and leave after they found out this was not a MA team.

"Let's go over to AE and do some mishes there!"

"Man, *boring*. We're doing scanners today."

"I am so worn out with AE, I hate it now!"

"Please lets just keep doing scanners, leader."

"I really don't want to run AE. Anyone who does, this isnt the team for you - thanks tho."

new person: "LOL ok thanks for invite, going to AE." *quit*

Then we would replace that person with someone else who usually said a variant of, "We're not in AE? THANK YOU GOD I am so frakkin' SICK of AE I could scream! Yay!"

Then we went off and much leveling fun was had by all. I think a lot of new players are missing this...

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Scanner missions, to me, are just as boring as people attempting to run farms.

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I agree that moving them out of the low level zones would be a good idea.

As far as helping curtail what's doing, why not make it so you have to select a level range you want the arc to be in when you're designing missions (1-5, 5-10, or even swing as broad as per 1-10, 10-20, etc) and treat them like the TF/SF's the system seems based on? This is particularly viable now that higher level NPC's can be 'exemplared' down, allowing all the content for mission design at all levels.

If you're under the level range the story arc is set at, you can't play it. If you're over that range it'll EX you down like it does now.

Now, I understand why the original decision was made to allow everyone to be auto 'sidekicked' up, because barring content by level would limit much of the audience that may appreciate an author's creativity. However, isn't the problems we're experiencing now the exact reason TF's and contacts have level requirements?

Of course, there's always the normal sidekick/lackey option for higher level contact arcs, and perhaps if that could be worked into make that content viable (the MA counts your sidekicked level to see if you're in the right range)? That could be a good compromise. At least it would limit teams, requiring them to have at least half the team be in the appropriate level range to sidekick up the lower level characters.

Thoughts?

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I couldn't agree more.

A lot of that makes sense for people who do play normal content. However, the majority of people getting sucked into AE don't care about how the PVE environment is adjusted to try and get them into more of the game. They just want their levels as fast as they can.

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Doc Mech-Nec (Exalted): 50 Bots/FF MM
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ZERO influence/infamy awards for AE mobs.

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Scanner missions, to me, are just as boring as people attempting to run farms.

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Not quite, but pretty close.

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Scanner missions, to me, are just as boring as people attempting to run farms.

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I agree with this - so instead I just try to see how many story arcs I can speedrun for merits and pick up levels as they show up. Stalkers are really good for this, but I've been doing well with my Warshade also.

If I'm really in a hurry to level I'll just get a friend to PL me the old-fashioned way, since I still need purple drops and there's no way I'm paying what some people are willing to drive the prices to on the market.

My preferred levelling is through TF/SFs, but that's sortof gated by how many people I can get to join me.

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ZERO influence/infamy awards for AE mobs.

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I'm not sure I support that... but it would make a lot of RP sense. How are people talking about your exploits to their friends when they are all digital?

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Scanner missions, to me, are just as boring as people attempting to run farms.

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You know what REALLY bores me? Lowbies trying to run level 54 boss farms. It takes 5 minutes to kill one NPC and its nothing but wipe after wipe. And we got 500 NPCs to kill...

These farms are like trying to kill 500 rhinoceroses with toothpicks. I would 1000 times rather run a 'boring" scanner or newspaper, get my xp, get my end-bonus and move on to the next.

At least scanners mix up the NPCs too. AE stuff? the Boomtown map covered with 500 of the same scantily-clad female Dual Blader - the exact same one. Same costume. Same hair. Same everything. BORING! Scanners are a relief in comparison.

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A lot of that makes sense for people who do play normal content. However, the majority of people getting sucked into AE don't care about how the PVE environment is adjusted to try and get them into more of the game. They just want their levels as fast as they can.

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You're missing the conversation. This is not about new characters, it is about new players, fresh to CoX, still learning the interface and other game fundamentals. If after two weeks into the game, a new player discovers farming through AE, decides they love it and sticks around for 6 to 18 months doing nothing but that, WONDERFUL!

What people are discussing here is not efforts to curb farming or how AE is used at all. Rather how to give brand spanking new players a little bit of breathing room before getting funneled into AE farming teams.

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