SG mode to determine base rent?
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2005-08-22 09:50 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I just have to add my voice and say that this is terrible as an idea.
I'm always teaming with my SG. But that's not really a SG as strictly defined by CoH...it's defined by the Private Global Channel and our website if anything. We always team with characters both who are members of our 4 main supergroups, characters who've not signed up yet because we've not enough space for everyone's alts - even with 4 sgs!, etc, etc.
We were very much looking forward to being able to create a big SG base.....but, now it seems we won't have prestige despite being a SG since CoH beta just because we're split over multiple groups and don't use the terrible terrible SG mode system?
Wow. Terrible terrible idea.
@JohnP - Victory
Why is there a need for this anyway?? I mean it's not like we don't have extra influence floating around - we need a good money sink. Plus, since we probably won't be able to trade Prestige, it means that SG's won't be able to help each other - "great way to emphasize" the spirit of cooperation that heroes share. 
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A SG that plays together reguarly, but uses their individual uniforms, will get NO prestige.
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Yeah, that's SO INCREDIBLY TRUE TO THE COMIC BOOKS!!!
Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, all of them ALWAYS CHANGE THEIR COSTUMES COMPLETELY when they are active in the JLA!!!!
And Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, etc. NEVER WEAR THEIR NORMAL COSTUMES when active in the Avengers!!!
ALL SUPERGROUPS IN COMIC BOOKS ALWAYS IMPOSE COSTUME CHANGES!!!
YUP! That's EXACTLY how it's done in the comics.
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Just because you're in SG mode doesn't mean you automatically get Prestige. You still have to do things.
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SG Mode, the way its implemented now, isn't something people seem to want. Making us want it just for prestige? How's that fun?
I so don't get the reasoning behind no inf here. Level 20 for Bases?!? What will level 50's NEVER get anything just for them?
Why shouldn't your SG have to have level 50 members in order to get a base?
I'm sorry, this whole thing is just plain wrong. SG mode is in no way shape or form of any value in-and-of-itself. Give it some, and maybe for the future, this is the way, but I'll be seriously unhappy if the data-mining for whaterver gives us bases is based exclusively on SG Mode.
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I'm always teaming with my SG. But that's not really a SG as strictly defined by CoH...it's defined by the Private Global Channel and our website if anything. We always team with characters both who are members of our 4 main supergroups, characters who've not signed up yet because we've not enough space for everyone's alts - even with 4 sgs!, etc, etc.
We were very much looking forward to being able to create a big SG base.....but, now it seems we won't have prestige despite being a SG since CoH beta just because we're split over multiple groups and don't use the terrible terrible SG mode system?
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Again, you are leaping to conclusions. You have enough people to form 4 75 person SGs. One of those will become your main SG and will have MAXIMUM BASE SIZE. 75 pers is the biggest that you can have. Its the fastest way to get prestige. Your base will be built as fast and as completely as the developers think any base should be able to be put together.
Yet you want more without even knowing if that will be big and fast enough for your liking.
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Just because you're in SG mode doesn't mean you automatically get Prestige. You still have to do things.
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I'm all for doing things. Fun things, anyway.
Not things like regretting the way we set up our five Origin-based supergroups under the assumption that they'd want their HQs thematically decorated.
We figured the Magic guys would want stone construction with torches on the walls while the Tech guys would want smooth lines and blinking lights.
We figured that if there were Enhancement storage bins in the bases, Science folks would like to go into their Science base and open their Science storage to get their Science Enhancements.
We figured that it'd be okay if our Natural group was the smallest SG, because its leader was the richest character and she'd bankroll a snazzy headquarters for her elite team.
We figured that since we had so many Mutants, their base might be the grandest of all. If anything, cash flow to fund the place would be the most consistent.
Now? Now I look at the Natural roster and wonder how I'm going to organize a balanced team out of all those riflemen and scrappers. I guess the Peacebringer better start slotting his Dwarf form. It's either that or to heck with the mansion idea.
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Honestly, if we're looking at a secondary form of currency (Prestige) that's earned only when in SG mode, it's a poor system. You're basically telling people that they will ALWAYS have their SG emblem on their chest (bbye to those straps or bandoliers that completed your outfits) because why would they do anything OUT of SG mode now?
You're not even enforcing (yes, I said enforcing) us to use our SG colors, because we can ignore that entire part of the SG mode. So what's the point?
Sure, flavor-wise, I can understand encouraging people to team up with their SG mates so as to glorify their supergroup's teamwork. I'm cool with that. But this is not the way to do it.
I always play with SG members. Pick-up groups are extremely rare outside of trials or TFs, and even then we try to make it SG-only. Now you're telling me that I'm still not doing enough with my SG?
Bad, bad, bad idea. Impractical, unrealistic, and I dare say insulting. You just negated all of the influence that our highbies had looked forward to turning into five really cool bases.
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Ugh, I'm getting SO tired of having to say that about Heroes: "I agree with your intention, but your execution is horrible." Please tell me that there's some misunderstanding here, or that there are unrevealed-yet-vital bits of data on the subject that will make it all non-disgusting.
Seriously, guys, I used to adore this game. I was the dude who'd recruit friends into the game in an embarrassingly giddy fashion. Now you've reduced me to a perpetual eyeroll-and-sneer. I don't like that.
Just wanted to comment on a couple of things you've said Malcolm_McCallum...
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You have enough people to form 4 75 person SGs. One of those will become your main SG and will have MAXIMUM BASE SIZE. 75 pers is the biggest that you can have. Its the fastest way to get prestige. Your base will be built as fast and as completely as the developers think any base should be able to be put together.
Yet you want more without even knowing if that will be big and fast enough for your liking.
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Maybe the 'main' group (if you have one) has a good 75, but the extra SGs may not be as full to the brim (many multi-SG groups create divisions with room to expand) - members in those SGs won't get as spiffy a base even though they are in the same group as the other members, even if not the same actual SG.
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Maybe the solution is that every Supergroup can have 'reserve' team of 300 or so.... The reserve team is where you put inactive characters.
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I don't have a single inactive character. I have 5 chars that I play regularly. My SG has probably a few dozen people with similar numbers of active chars plus as many more with only 1 char - and we simply can't get all of those characters in a single 'active' group. The reserve team idea doesn't solve our problem. Maybe it would work for some SGs, but not for us.
There are other compelling reasons to increase SG size as I see it, and as has been pointed out, some technical reasons not to (though they could be worked around as I see it), however, this is not the place for a full discussion on this. I really just wanted to point out why the SG size could be a problem for the proposed Prestige system. As I see it, it could create further unneccesary divides within large groups.
Ok, I would just like to post one more thing about this, and I am done.
I honestly believe that "Prestige" is an addition to counter/compliment something that will be in CoV. And allow both Heroes and Villians to be on the same footing when it comes to bases.
Could be wrong though.
And hope this does not count against the NDA. :P hehe
Please, please, please let us change our SGcolors and emblem if this is goign to be how we afford our bases.
LFT 4 Prestige Farming!!!!
LFT 4 Prestige Farming!!!!
LFT 4 Prestige Farming!!!!
Just wanted to be the first to say it. 
My group tends to use the SG colors when one or more of us are together on a mission.
However, I agree that the concept of a secondary "monetary "system - Prestige - is a bad idea. Folks already give away massive amounts of Influence because they earn too much to use above level 50. Why introduce a second sytem? Unless they intend to do something else with it...
Now someone brought up an interesting point earlier, and I don't want to hijack the thread. However, I think that if the devs really want to encourage the use of SG mode in-game, then why not offer a bonus for it? As an example, the X-Men always seem more powerful when they're working with a few other X-Men. The Justice League always seems to have a tactical advantage when its members are fighting side-by-side. So why not offer some sort of temporary buff if 3 or more SG members are on a given team in SG mode, and up the buff for each person over 3?
Anywho - I have to agree that the Prestige idea ranks low in my books. I'd rather see Influence being spent for the bases. Although, as Hyper_Man stated, this could be something in counter to an idea in CoV - but I won't know until it comes out, because I don't got beta! 
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However, I think that if the devs really want to encourage the use of SG mode in-game, then why not offer a bonus for it?
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You mean like a base? 
Actually.... I can already see the arguments within supergroups over this.
Hero A) Dood - u need to farm prestige with us.
Hero B) I'd rather not. It's dull.
Hero A) U Sux.
<hero b has been kicked from supergroup>
On a counter-point, if this prestige system has anything to do with something that slipped into test a while ago, Empaths are gonna become REAL popular. I remember casting Absorb Pain on someone and gaining .33 prestige point (or something like that).
I'll just stand around the tram (in SG colors) absorbing pain and healing aura for a while. If it requires a partner I'll just have a SGmate teleport up, drop down, absorb pain, teleport up, rinse repeat... That's just one example, I'm certain that there's gonna be dozens of exploits out there, all requiring a sequence of actions to be repeated over and over again.
Weeeee what fun. But whoever said that earning your rent money was supposed to be fun. That's why they're called "jobs" not "hobbies".
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I always play with SG members. Pick-up groups are extremely rare outside of trials or TFs, and even then we try to make it SG-only. Now you're telling me that I'm still not doing enough with my SG?
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Exactly.
For me, pretty much 100% of my time is spent with my SG. Pick up groups are non-existent for me. Trials and TF's with anyone not in my SG? That almost never happens either. I can count on one hand how often I've done that with all of my characters.
I spend all my time with my SG-mates because I genuinely like the people in Lone S.T.A.R., and because I enjoy our team camraderie. We generally get along, we work well together, and it's fun to spend time with my team.
And when someone in Lone S.T.A.R. hits 20, the offers to help with the costume and cape missions come from all directions, and the time comes to dedicate a slot for the SG uniform. It's pretty much a rite of passage for any character or alt to do that. And when we team up together, we wear it.
That uniform has significance. We're a Texas-based SG, together since beta, and still going strong with nearly the entire same core of founding members. The uniform we wear is based on the Texas flag, and, in its own way, fits into the storyline and background that we've created for ourselves. It's not a random look.
Suddenly saying that SG mode is where it's at when some people, like me, haven't even so much as glanced at SG mode since designing a themed uniform for the group, would be absurd.
I spend all of my in-game time with my team. I spend most of that time in missions with them. We plan TF's and trials, and we have an honor guard and an elaborate ceremony when someone hits 50.
That counts far more for players like me than the non-existent SG mode, which never gets used, and which absolutely shouldn't suddenly matter when it comes to bases.
Terrible, terrible idea. Seriously. It's just bad form to do this now when SG mode has never been a factor before.
Just my 2 influence, anyways.
I like the idea of Prestige being attributed to a Supergroup...I think you should earn Prestige whether you are in SG mode or not....However, maybe you earn a bonus if you are in SG mode.
This is a good idea and more should be done to spur on the comraderie among SG's.....Supergroups should be able to affect other SG's they are in Coalitions with.
For instance, if I'm in a "prestigious" Supergroup and form a Coalition with a "up and coming" Supergroup, that Supergroup should get a bonus to their prestige earned by being linked with the prestigious Supergroup.
All in all, I think this is great!!!!!
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Statesman and the rest of the Freedom Phalanx. Under these rules, the Pillar of Paragon City and friends get jack, zero, and zippo Prestige. How'd they build that swank base?
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QFT !
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You can use the colors you have now in SG-Mode. The only thing that's mandatory in SG mode is the chest symbol. You can enter SG mode and have it just change that symbol and not touch your colors at all.
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And if we could choose WHERE the symbol went, instead of requiring us to remove other chest detail options that are critical to the look of the character, we might have a semi workable system.
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As for SG costumes: it seems that most SGs in Marvel use SG colors. DC tends not to. Just because you are in SG mode doesn't mean you all have to wear the same colors and costumes. My SG functions a lot like the X-Men or Gen13 where everyone has a different looking costume with the same theme (black/white and the crash dummy symbol).
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Again, the X-men don't all wear the symbol in the same place, neither does the Fantastic Four. Neither Beast nor Professor Xavier wear the symbol or the colors but they still add to the teams prestige. The Avengers don't have a team costume. Alpha Flight didn't have one. Squadron Supreme din't have one...
Ok, gotta run
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Just because you're in SG mode doesn't mean you automatically get Prestige. You still have to do things.
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Can you say "writs"?
IMO SG Mode should be a costume slot, not just a color change. When the SG stuff was put in, the costume changing stuff ( Icon ) wasn't ready. I'm guessing colors was the easy way to go at that point.
Now that costume changing is in, make SG Mode a costume slot...
Well this idea sucks for me and my sg. I have an SG uniform that doesnt require someone to be in SG mode to use it. But when we team as an SG, we all wear it.
Wish someone woulda told us this earlier. That way, I wouldn't have spent so much time trying to build up influence over the last few months.
Is there any possible way we can make a 5th costume slot for a SG uniform, and get prestige when players wear it?...... yeah prolly not huh 
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LFT 4 Prestige Farming!!!!
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If they made it non-farmable (i.e. awarded it only on mission completion) it would be a very, very good thing in my book.
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As for SG costumes: it seems that most SGs in Marvel use SG colors. DC tends not to. Just because you are in SG mode doesn't mean you all have to wear the same colors and costumes. My SG functions a lot like the X-Men or Gen13 where everyone has a different looking costume with the same theme (black/white and the crash dummy symbol).
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I wouldn't say this is necessarily true. Sure, the X-Men have the blue and gold colours, but most of their members do not use them. Typically, only the students have used these colours. Storm wears what she wants, so does Wolverine, Colossus, Rogue, Emma Frost, Havok, Polaris, etc. Only Cyclops, Bishop, and Kitty Pryde have traditionally worn uniforms (and in Kitty's case it's because, frankly, she's horrible at costume design). Avengers certainly don't. The only Marvel SG that does use an "SG mode" is the Fantastic Four.
This is really the case for most comics. The reason for it is because artists tend to loathe uniforms, because of their restricting nature.
So what about loner heroes? Heores that aren't "joiners" even though they may play with other people often?
I seem to remember mention of apartments awhile back in the same breath as bases. Does this mean that loners will be homeless??
This seems to me to be a terrible idea. It interferes with Roleplay and forces the characters down a path of uniformity, all doing the same thinsg and playing the same way.
A whole lot like a bad pen and paper judge might.
I HATE this. I hate matching super group uniforms and see very few SG's using them because imho, it is sort of lame. I like heroes with their own individuality better. FORCING us to use the SG option is just a horrible decision.
Classic Dungeon Crawl Arc ID: 2232-"A satirical look at your average dungeon"
Down the Rabbit Hole Arc IDs: 24346 24397-"Rescue a little girl from an insidious dream invader."
I would suspect that if/when Individual Player apartments are added, they will be paid for by the individual player and probably have a system to reflect that.
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Just because you're in SG mode doesn't mean you automatically get Prestige. You still have to do things.
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Well, I wonder what this could be. I'd sort of hate for it to be doing missions while in SG mode, because that just hurts the level 50s. That'd mean they'd basically be stuck farming Shadow Shard missions for prestiges.
Throwing my hat in the "I don't like it" ring. Fusion Force (Triumph) is five Supergroups strong, and 4 of the five use our uniform! The uniform is not mandatory, but players usually get it at level 20. The lowest level SG, Fusion Force Academy, is L1-20 and FFA uses the SG colors on their characters original costume. So they are going to have more Prestige than the 60 Level 50 heroes in Fusion Force Legends? That doesn't seem right to me..
Our Base plans (based on Influence) were to have Fusion Force Legends have the base and members of the other four would be invited in as needed. It would make more sense that way.
It would be nice if we could link up the Prestige in a SG Coalition or transfer Prestige between characters.
Fortunately our SG logos are the same as our uniform logo so using the default setting wont be a problem for us.
I still think influence would be a better solution for it.
Fusion Force