SG mode to determine base rent?
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2005-08-22 09:50 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Just because you're in SG mode doesn't mean you automatically get Prestige. You still have to do things.
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Bad bad bad. So bad I can't it enough. Almost as bad as the Phase Shift nerf. We had started to collect influence dues in our SG.
So now the word in the SG is to always stay in SG mode to be assured you won't forget to turn it on when you group with other SG members.
That leads to my four costumes being useless. Though I can just opt not to use the SG colors but I still have the ugly and huge symbol stuck on my chest looking quite out of place.
SG Mode with its colors and symbols might be good for some SG concepts, but not all as examples of comic based groups have been mentioned.
Do away with the mandatory symbol and I'll be happy. I can be in SG mode without losing my personal Chest Detail and I dont have to look like I'm a member of the Army of Two-Tone Colored Uniform Wearing Fascist Heroes.
BTW what are the SG colors of the Freedom Phalanx and the Regulators?
If its not good enough for them, then its not good enough for me and my heroes which I hold to quite a higher regard than the NPC signature heroes in the game.
You know... I've been thinking about this for the past couple of days. I think I can understand the Devs logic behind this.
My theory.
They can't have bases paid for with influence because of a the phenomenal amount of influence out there. Either rent becomes meaningless and everyone can then afford luxury condos or the rent is so high that it's unattainable to casual players and people have to start seriously farming to keep their influence levels up.
To avoid the same problem with their newer currency, prestige, they need to limit the amount they give out. But players are assuming (rightfully so) that their months of playtime should entitle them to being able to afford a base as soon as they are available.
So this half measure. We'll start everyone with prestige... but only at a tiny fraction of their full past actions should warrant. It's a compromise between the two previous options.
That's my theory. It's at least a theory that I prefer to believe over the idea that this is some random whacked out attempt to get people to use a nearly completely ignored function of the game - SG mode. 
It is also, however, a compromise that I disagree with. I would rather see prestige become dirt common so as to avoid professional prestige farming teams wandering around in the game.
I mean... I like the idea of prestige. The idea that certain ennobling actions gain you a bonus. From what I remember during that brief time on test prior to I4 releasing, my empath gained .33 prestige points for using Absorb Pain on a badly hurt teammate. I remember some other idle chatter about people getting prestige points for defeating monsters.
And if prestige is to have any game meaning, it needs to translate into a tangible benefit. Supergroup HQs sounds like both an appropriate and cool use for prestige.
I just don't like this punative method for implementing it.
I'm sure the devs just realized that super groups not being in super group mode is just a matter of the game not being played as intended. As shown by I5 when some are not doing as intended then everybody needs to be beaten about the head with the nerf bats, whether it's herders getting everybodys' defenses mangled or SG members daring to maintain they're individuality. You must all conform and behave as intended! There is no 'I' in team! Have a nice day! 
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So, happy with the idea or not, I can see the reasoning behind it.
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The idea isn't a bad one. It brings to mind Wolverine chafing at having to wear an X-Men uniform, and Cyclops' quip about yellow spandex.
But datamining to see how long people have been playing in SG mode and awarding Prestige retroactively? VERY BAD IDEA. That's no more than a lottery. It would be SO much better to start everyone off on the same footing, able to make an informed choice about how to proceed.
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I agree with you on that. Datamining will be a bad thing. I've seen some SGs that have an official uniform that's separate from their SG mode uniform. Those groups are tight and do a lot of things together, but they're probably rarely in SG mode.
The other issue I have is that we recently experienced a bug where some members of our SG were accidentally kicked out and had to be re-invited -- if that affects the datamining, then three of our oldest members (who spent a LOT of time in SG mode) are going to be hosed. Also, we're constantly deleting characters and creating new ones, and it would suck if those don't count towards the Prestige total. Not to mention the fact that we had to create a second SG for the over-flow, and while some of those characters ran around in SG mode while in the primary SG, none of them have ever used the secondary SG's mode.
We should all start from a particular date. They should announce it on the opening screen when you fire up CoH to enter the game so no one misses it: "Starting September 1st, missions done in SG MODE earns your Supergroup Prestige, which will allow you to build a base when they become available."
That way players will be neither rewarded nor penalized for doing or not doing something they were unaware of for the past year and a half.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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There is no 'I' in team! Have a nice day!
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There is no "u" either....
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There is no 'I' in team! Have a nice day!
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But there is a "me."
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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There is no 'I' in team! Have a nice day!
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There is no "u" either....
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But there is an I in pie, like meat pie and meat is an anagram for team....
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There is no 'I' in team! Have a nice day!
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As I always told my gym teacher - No, but there is a M and an E 
I'm coming into this discussion late, having only just heard about Prestige, and I hope this is just a silly rumor. Because this is the WORST idea I have heard of in a very long time.
I bought the game. I pay my monthly fee. If necessary, I will buy CoV and pay an additional monthly fee. But for that REAL WORLD money, I expect to have access to ALL of the features in the game WITHOUT being forced to play a certain way!
My experience with supergroups has been universally bad. Scheduling problems to get everyone together at the same time. Players outleveling others to avoid players they are annoyed with, creating factions within a group. Pressure to create costumes that I hate, so that I match the rest of the group. Pressure to roleplay a certain way. Cliques forming in the group, and arguments over how to do things. All the worst that group play has to offer.
And I resent the idea of the developers now telling me that I have to play as a member of a supergroup, an aspect of the game that should be entirely voluntary. My independent, solo hero should be able to have a base all his very own; maybe not a big one, but something nonetheless. It is bad business, and it is counter to the superhero genre -- the Batcave and the Fortress of Solitude are maintained by solo heroes independently of their group affiliations.
Heaven help us when vehicles become available only to those heroes who spend sufficient time sidekicking and/or exemplaring, or when the devs create archetypes that are only available to players who send in signed forms confirming hours spent volunteering.
Lone heroes should get their apartments in founders fall....nah too fancy, make it kings row 
Yeah I think ppl are confusing hero's residences with an actually sg base. Constantly using Batman and Superman as examples isnt quite realistic. We are talking on a much larger scale here. Sure a few villains out there would like to turn the Batcave into a crater, but I really cant see the Batcave as "raid content" either. There is a huge distinction between a lone hero's base of operations and an sg's HQ, like the Avengers mansion or the Watchtower. There are hundreds of heroes out there that have NOTHING remotely similiar to what Batman has, they dont have anything at all. He is an extremely rare case.
What ever happened to this: 
Foggy
Founders' Falls (968, 0, 2622)
This building is in the final stages of preparing suites for the use of the city's Super Groups.
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There is no 'I' in team! Have a nice day!
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As I always told my gym teacher - No, but there is a M and an E
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There's also T and A!
We can, I've been told, be a supergroup of one.
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What ever happened to this:
Foggy
Founders' Falls (968, 0, 2622)
This building is in the final stages of preparing suites for the use of the city's Super Groups.
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...Maybe it became obvious that one nuke in FF would wipe out all SG "suites".
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Check... and Mate (poster) - Arc ID# 15095 (comments)
Invasion on Earth BX1132! (poster 1) - (poster 2) - Arc ID# 98943 (comments)
Global @ARH
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/07...ureBanner2.jpg
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We can, I've been told, be a supergroup of one.
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Sure I suppose you could just make an SG, do not invite anyone, wear your SG colours or Emblam and then make your own private base. Not a bad idea actually.
Cheers!
Anyone got any news from the devs or replies to PM:s regarding this?
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With nearly everyone is in a SG but hardly anyone actually using the SG mode, I can fully understand why the Devs would wish to encourage people to use it.
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I think you're off the mark here. The more appropriate response in my opinion is:
"With nearly everyone is in a SG but hardly anyone actually using the SG mode, I can fully understand why the Devs would wish to determine why people don't like it, and implement changes to make SG mode more desirable to players."
BB
Prestige farming, gonna have to take care of that in I7...any comments as to the most efficient AT for that?
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Okay, so let me get this straight: I'm a superhero who wants to build a SUPERHERO base. To do so, I have to put down $50 for a game I don't even have an interest to play (City of Villians), just so I can be a SUPERHERO with a SUPERHERO base.
Then, the Devs are going to add insult to injury by telling me that the Influence I have been saving up for my SG base will not be able to be used for purchasing said base. But instead, I'll have to run around in my SG mode (a mode that no one wants to use because it ruins the individual look of their hero, either by costume color or emblem), just so I can earn this new form of currency called Prestige so I can finally get my SUPERHERO base.
What????!!!??
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. This game is suppose to be fun - making the players do something they do not want to do is NOT FUN FOR THEM.
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Quoted for emphasis and in comparison to Jack's vision.
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Prestige farming, gonna have to take care of that in I7...any comments as to the most efficient AT for that?
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Scrappers or blasters if it's a general "what ever you do in SG mode"
Defenders (empathy anyway, sorry FFers!) if it's only stuff you do while on teams.
Of course, it's PROBABLY something as asanine as "only stuff you do while in SG mode while teamed with others in your SG. Because we're not isolationist enough. because if we were more clanish, the arena's would be more packed. Never mind that this sort of behaviour would completely KILL the game.
I say its not such a bad thing.
My sg uses the sg mode and finds the whole "too matchy" uniform thing kinda boring anyway. By the way, you can still have a totaly matching uniform by using sg mode and adjusting one of your costume slots. Is it really that big of a deal? Doesnt sound like it to me
Yet another problem with this if Prestige indeed becomes the currency for bases... Alts! I've long wanted to see the SG cap removed but since it hasn't been, let's look at alts.
If you're like most CoH players, you play many different toons. Now, for example, let's say everyone in your SG has 8 toons they play. That means that 9 people could almost fill an SG (9 players x 8 alts = 72 toons). So, if your SG has 10 or more people in it, you can't have all your toons in it. So, now you are forced to play a toon that IS actually in the SG to earn prestige.
Let's use lower numbers. Assuming everyone in your SG has 5 toons they play from time to time, 15 members could have 75 toons. My point is that most people are going to have toons that aren't in their SG due to the 75 toon cap.
I can see it coming. "Darnit, I want to play this toon but if I do, I won't be earning any Prestige for my SG. Guess I better go GRIND prestige on my SG character."
If the DEVs are going to use prestige for bases, they either need to lift the member cap or at least make it 75 accounts, not characters, so you can have all your alts in the SG.
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With nearly everyone is in a SG but hardly anyone actually using the SG mode, I can fully understand why the Devs would wish to encourage people to use it.
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I think you're off the mark here. The more appropriate response in my opinion is:
"With nearly everyone is in a SG but hardly anyone actually using the SG mode, I can fully understand why the Devs would wish to determine why people don't like it, and implement changes to make SG mode more desirable to players."
BB
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Good call.
There are, however, many of us that do not mind being in SG mode. Well considered, well designed and well planned Super Groups don't look silly in their costumes. And if the colors do not go along with your current scheme, you can chose to not change the colors at all, which only leaves the chest emblem.
Okay, very little you can do there without some serious planning. If you have the foresight to create your character and choose chest emblem colors that do not clash with the rest of your colors, or match your normal chest colors, then you can go a long way towards hiding your SG Emblem. It isn't perfect, because it intersects with other designs and does little for "bare chested" types, but it's fairly easy to make the emblems unobtrusive.
So go to Icon and spend a fraction of that influence you've been saving and change your chest emblem colors to something you can fade out with reasonable success, and then chose "no chest symbol" so that you have the color options you desire.
It's really about that simple. Is it perfect? Probably not. But it is a solution. You do have the option to look almost exactly the same in SG mode or not in SG mode.
I am in support of the Prestige idea for bases and I am in support of data mining for information to assist current SGs that do use their colors often in the game. The information has been leaked well in advance of becoming implemented so there is time for those who feel cheated to do some time in their SG colors and build up a bank account of Prestige.
And as for those who have so many toons as to need an entirely separate SG to contain them? What is your problem? You certainly have had the time and ability to design an SG Mode uniform that is suitable for your group. Pick some neutral colors, and an unobtrusive symbol and take some pride in your SG. And, as it is fairly simple to get around the SG Colors are Hateful argument, why not do so?
Certainly everyone will not like SG mode. Shirtless men are probably the most obvious, as it is hard to explain a huge tattoo and steps were taken to keep folks from making their clothing match their skin color. Nothing is perfect. But if the ONLY thing different on your toon between SG mode and not SG mode is the chest symbol, how annoying can it really be?
Yes, yes, yes. You lose bandoleers too, and there are other shirt choices, both male and female, that do not lend themselves well to emblems. Sad but true, and I see nothing for that becoming implemented anytime soon. So pick one costume slot and put a decent shirt on.
Really, my point is that getting around the color and emblem limits on SG mode is not impossible, and in fact is rather simple. Using Prestige instead of Influence (which most of us expected before now) is a smart move. The inflation level of Influence for higher toons and the amount of Influence larger SGs could gain would be impossible to control. Starting SGs would be utterly unable to catch up with old, established groups. The larger SGs would overwhelm the smaller ones made of close friends. Worst of all, youd have another huge storm of blindly inviting anyone and everyone into SGs so folks could inflate their numbers.
My opinion. Prestige = Good. Your Mileage May Vary.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
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That's actually hitting what's bugging me squarely on the head. I couldn't quite put it, but I think I can now. It's responsibility. We all know that having a responsibility is not a cool thing. We are given responsibilities when we go to work or school or university, and those responsibilities make us tired. We sometimes choose to take on responsibilities, because we respect or like or love the people who we become responsible for. That tires us, but the result is worth it.
I believe that if prestige becomes what keeps a SG inside their base, then a responsibility will be lumped on all our shoulders - to play and pay the rent. Sure, a base isn't a vital necessity. Sure, our SG might not actively enforce it. But it's an unspoken responsibility nonetheless. When your whole SG pulls together to pay the rent, will you feel well to be slacking or offline or playing an alt? When your SG-mates look at you like you're a lazy man, they don't need to say it. It's s obvious by their attitude. When you're put in a position of having to do something for the common good, can you lighteartedly say that it really doesn't matter?
An unspoken responsibility weighs heavier than any decided or forced one. It is not a responsibility you chose to take, or were forced to take, it's a responsibility you feel you have. And that is tiring. Very, very tiring. And I don't mean being sleepy or beat, I mean mentally tired, when you don't want to do anything but sit and look at one point in space.
This is a game. We shouldn't be given constantly-looming responsibilities. This goes beyond the passive "not fun" and goes into the aggressive "stressing out".
I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but it does not seem so.
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you posting this, brought THIS instantly to mind. Yep, I am so looking forward to that situation.