SG mode to determine base rent?
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2005-08-22 09:50 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I think this is great idea.
Crazymonkey you seem to have pointed out most of my thoughts I came up with while reading the post.
I now feel (with the limited info we have thus far) that my level 1 will be able to contribute just as much to the base as my level 50. This is assuming that Prestige isn't going to scale with levels.
The only thing mandatory in SG mode right now is the chest emblem. I would like to see this change to the option of either chest or pocket by default. Then having and option of going to Icon getting a mish that would change the location of the emblem (arm, shoulder pad, cape or even forehead if so desired).
As for Prestige being linked to the hero or a SG slush fund I am undecided. I don't think it should be datamined. When the bases come out every one should starts at zero.
For those SG's that have subdivided and have alts scattered among them you have a major advantage over some one like me who's SG has only one SG base and 10 players that have multiple alts in it. You can schedual a raid on the alt base and then convene and discuss the strengths and weakness of the base. From both view points. My SG can only do that if the raiding party is willing to talk.
Purely hypatheticel (with no facts to back it up) but a smoking gun that the dev's may intentionally fail to mention is that prestige can only be earned while raiding or defending base. Which they could do if they gave each SG an initial base fund of x amount of prestige.
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Is it time for an official declaration of DOOOOOOOOM yet?
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I'll second it
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Is it time for an official declaration of DOOOOOOOOM yet?
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I'll second it
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*pounds gavel*
So let it be done. Secretary please enter this into the minutes....we have now officially declared DOOM.
My only comment regarding how bizarre this idea is...
Did anyone ever see the Freedom Phlanx running around in SG mode?
I've never seen a picture of it!... They always appear in their own costumes and never in one unanimous colour scheme...
Surely if they never had to run around in SG mode, why should we?... I put a LOT of time and influence into my costume choices, and I love my SG, but I dont particularly want to ruin my outfits look, and (potentially for those who do like to tie stuff up) mess up my backstory (seen a few folks with particular colours due to rp and backstory needs).
This, blatently, has not been thought out, and will bring ruin upon the SG's of Paragon
I will be blunt and honest. I think this is a ridiculous idea. Influence should be used. But requiring one to just play the game in a different outfit?
Come on....
I think Prestige is a fantastic idea! I'm sure some serious tweeking is in line, but just buying bases for influence is a HUGE problem. Here's my thinking on it:
-Powerlvlers: Both me and you know there are plers out there with hundreds of millions of influence on their toons. I personally know about 5 ppl with over 250 million alone, each. Now what's going to happen? Depending on the value of bases, these ppl can potentially accrue multiple bases for that one person, depending on how many alts they have. And if bases are limited to 1 base per person, nothing is stopping ppl with multiple accounts and/or hooking their friends up.
The pler example can be streatched in many ways. A person like myself with multiple 50 toons can also do the multiple base thing since I have alot of unused influence. I also belong to an sg and run an sg. But what happens to that new, large, but very active sg that deserves a nice base but just don't have the influence b/c they dont pl or have toon at 50 yet?
Other grey areas arise too. Considering a person in a 75 man sg. Eventually most of the member hit 50 and they get "shelved", and the person moves on to an alt. New sub-divisions of sg are made. Its hard to keep a single sg active unless there's room to invite alts. Most sg move shelved toons to a retirement home sg and keep their new active alt in the main sg. That may be a way to keep the prestige up a bit. Also does a higer lvl toon get you more prestige? And what is a motivation outside of the small interest in Hami-raids or future base raid for ppl to log their 50's on all the time? In addition, with CoV coming out, I'm sure even less attention will be given to CoH alts/toons.
I read the whole post, but snipping down to address the main points...
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Powerlvlers
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Honestly even if you base everything off of prestige and not influence, you'll still run into the same scenario. In the new scenario they'll be farming prestige instead of influence, that's all. I can easily setup a character to race through to 50 in purely SG mode and I can do that with 10 other alts in the same SG to get the prestige I need to make a base. Using prestige alone as a way to stop people from powerleveling to gain large bases for little effort really isn't enough.
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Also does a higer lvl toon get you more prestige?
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It shouldn't really. Prestige should be based on what you do in the game while in an SG, not what level your characters are. If they base prestige on level you'll just get more people wanting to race to 50 and more potential PL problems. Also when people make the mad rush to 50 to get that nifty cool base, they will soon find out that they've reached the end of the line and content is slim...that'll only end up with bored players and cancellations, I think the Devs are smarter than this.
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And what is a motivation outside of the small interest in Hami-raids or future base raid for ppl to log their 50's on all the time?
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The age old answer really, more content...more of the things mentioned but have not yet been followed through on...like SG only trials and TFs, SG only missions, SG only zone ( 
), Coalition TFs/missions/trials, etc. etc.
That's what is going to breath more life into SGs in general. I think the Devs have to know this as well.
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Powerlvlers
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Honestly even if you base everything off of prestige and not influence, you'll still run into the same scenario. In the new scenario they'll be farming prestige instead of influence, that's all.
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Wouldn't that assume that Prestige is given in the same way that XP and inf is today? What happens if it's given by mission completions, story arc completion, TF:s done, badges collected?
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Powerlvlers
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Honestly even if you base everything off of prestige and not influence, you'll still run into the same scenario. In the new scenario they'll be farming prestige instead of influence, that's all.
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Wouldn't that assume that Prestige is given in the same way that XP and inf is today? What happens if it's given by mission completions, story arc completion, TF:s done, badges collected?
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It can assume that or not. Mission completion, story arc completion, TFs done...that's all irrelevant to a true powerleveler (or powergamer for that matter). If your main goal is to farm prestige, you will do any task ad nauseum to get that prestige. If I have to complete missions, then I'll dump all street sweeping and do missions only. If I only have to complete arcs, I'll make sure that all my PL'ed alts have varied and completed storylines. Based on souvieners let's say, fine..I'll do every story arc that leads me to that end and nothning else.
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SG need more room. LOTS more room. Yes, the majority of SGs may be smaller, but some of the most loyal groups in this game are simply too big to fit in one SG. Our alts should all be contributing to the same base, not 4 different bases because of the arbitrarily low limit of 75 per SG. Never have I seen a good technical (or any other) reason why 75 must be the limit. Raise the limit, preferably by a factor of at least 5, or even abolish it altogether. This is major obstacle to Prestige being a workable system.
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Um, the SG versus SG has been stated succinctly as the reason for the 75 (ie 150 toon limit for gigantic battles.)
Still here, even after all this time!
Prestige is a horrible idea, just like the Arena and Dance Club. Though this has the huge disadvantage of very few being able to take advantage of this.
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5) Since you, Lord Recluse, point out that just being in SG mode does not get you prestige, I assume you mean we need to be grouped and/or gaining XP. This, once again, smacks of forced grouping. This is a very bad and highly unpopular idea. Please refrain from doing this if it is in fact what you had planned.
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Wait a minute -- you're saying it's a bad idea to encourage SG members to *gasp* team????
Those evil, evil devs!!!111!! 
And, from Cantatus:
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I'd sort of hate for it to be doing missions while in SG mode, because that just hurts the level 50s. That'd mean they'd basically be stuck farming Shadow Shard missions for prestiges.
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You could try exemping your 50 down and teaming with the heroes from your main SG, or running exemped TFs together (8 50's running Positron exemped to 16? Pure chaos, and fun! 
)
I know a lot of the 50s in our SG who are semi-retired still have a story arc or two they never managed to finish...
The more I think about it, I like the idea of Prestige paying for SG bases -- with the proviso that datamining doesn't go back for a year, and it would be nice if there were options to change SG colors/logo.
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Wait a minute -- you're saying it's a bad idea to encourage SG members to *gasp* team????
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Well IM saying its wrong to deprive players of options and opportunities in the game just because they arent the joining type...
As long as we're talking comic book exampels, unbder this system AIUI Superman would never get his fortress of solitude nor Batman his batcave...
Too many messages here to read. Has there been an actual answer on this or is it just rumors and griping?
Far as data-mining goes, sounds good to me. My SG mostly wear our colors when working together. I sometimes wear mine when solo because I like the color accent choices. In my mind, taking an SG on was just like adding more color choices to my current set of costumes.
For those who are against data-mining.... HUH???
Okay, so maybe you wish it were Influence based, but you'd rather have none of the SG time you've spent so far count at all? If that's the way it's going to work I'd think you'd want every bit of credit you have.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
Too many messages here to read. Has there been an actual answer on this or is it just rumors and griping?
Far as data-mining goes, sounds good to me. My SG mostly wear our colors when working together. I sometimes wear mine when solo because I like the color accent choices. In my mind, taking an SG on was just like adding more color choices to my current set of costumes.
For those who are against data-mining.... HUH???
Okay, so maybe you wish it were Influence based, but you'd rather have none of the SG time you've spent so far count at all? If that's the way it's going to work I'd think you'd want every bit of credit you have.
Will some folks (like me) who have always used thier SG colors get a head start on you? Yeh. Will it matter? Probably not. I'm getting a small reward for playing the game in a way that goes along with the thematic element but those power gamers out there who want the biggest-bestest headquarters will find a way to buff their SG time soon enough.
Since I'm more interested in having fun than having loot, I won't be ahead of you for that long.
YMMV.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
I invite posters to vote on the following...
SGs should start with:
A: 0 Prestige
B: The same amount of Prestige; enough for a basic Base.
C: Varying amounts of Prestige, per datamining.
Prestige should be awarded for:
A: Accomplishments in SG mode.
B: Accomplishments, whether in SG mode or not.
C: Accomplishments made while teaming with SG members.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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You have 5 SGs worth of alts and characters that are regularly played. You'll be getting 5 various bases. A full 75 main SG is as big as they can get. You'll be at the top end of what a SG can get in Bases by design. You don't know what that top end is but you already want more than that.
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no, i want ONE base, for us all to share. however how will this smattering around of players in different SG's reflect on a purchase of a base? Influence is an already established currency. saying it isn't because it's not called dollars/credits/gold/chocolate is ridiculous. Up n Away Burger wouldnt' take it as payment if it wasn't.
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Your argument about influence is confusing. On the one hand you complain that influence is useless now and then on the other hand you complain that this will mean raising the price of enhancements. Influence is not part of an economy. It IS useless after a certain level. How is that a bad thing? Are you asking them to put in some hamfisted method of forcing us to spend Influence and farm it? There is no reason to believe that they are going to increase the cost of enhancements. This is wild speculation used to fuel doom-mongers.
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Statesman has posted that enhancements costs were originally set to low and would be raised. There is no other way to drain this one form of currency from the game economy. There is nothing to buy from either raids or stores after a certain level. This begs the question, why even have influence in the first place? Is it to punish lower level players? Statesman has already expressed a desire to make things cost more, and drain currency; SG bases would being purchased with influence would allow for that. I'd use Search for you to help you find the post, but you're an adult and its 11.50pm for me right now.
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You say they are hamfistedly trying to encourage you to do something that you don't want to. If they said SG colours gave you 10% bonus xp or damage, you'd be in SG colours in a shot.
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Two words,[censored]. That's not hamfisted, that's a reward well worth it.
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People are whining that they have to wear SG colours now and don't get more uber because of it.
This approach gives us a great option: We either look cool and play the non-conformist rogue or we look less cool and help our team get its base. Its a roleplaying/fluff solution and that's commendable. We have enough powergaming/farming solutions to problems.
There ought to be an incentive to wear those less cool SG uniforms and it should be one that is all about fluff and SG bases are, IMO, all about fluff.
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I disagree, we need more powergaming. This game is too much about fluff.
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As to my comment that is so insulting, it wasn't me who said it originally. It is what is said almost everytime a dev speaks nowadays because...it actually is. I mean, just when you think they've mined the farthest depths of ignorance, they find another vein. All I've done is make the observation that it's a widespread comment, expectation, and undeniable truth.
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Oh, Puh-LEEZ! So if I kick your dog, and you say "don't kick my dog!" I can say "Well, THAT guy kicked your dog, so I figured it was OK." And that makes it so?
You shoot your mouth off, and then hide behind the spectre of "someone" you're quoting? Again I say, Puh-LEEZ. If I were a dev making this decision, and had only your comments by which to judge the validity of the decision, the LAST thing I would want to do is appease you given that attitude. Actually, I'd say "all players have to dress as Heidi to get a base."
Oh, and here's another that's been said before: "I had no idea how much fun I wasn't having 'til I read the forums".
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I love you, but you're an egotist. At least Erratic has style.
Now THAT is shooting my mouth off 
*blowkiss*
If they implement this, I hope they give us a "Do Not Display SG Symbol" option in the SG Mode Settings, so we can accumulate Prestige without sacrificing the appearance we spent so much time and energy on creating for our characters.
I can set the colors for my costume to remain the same in SG Mode, but the damned chest symbol change cannot be overridden, and it makes no sense for most of my characters to have the SG symbol on their chests.
I've never liked it anyway. There are very few comic book superteams that have standardized colors and chest symbols. It's a nice option, but it's bad as a requirement for SGs in CoH.
BB
You know, while we're on the subject of coming up with useless and brainless ideas, I want to ask the devs the following:
Where's the much ballyhooed skill system they couldn't stop talking about months ago? Was supposed to be some super amazing system they didn't want to share at the time so other games wouldn't rip it off. Where's the power tinting/coloring system they screamed about once? Where's the interesting content that doesn't take place in warehouses, offices, or caves? Where are these things that would actually improve the game? You devs gave all kinds of lip service about the coming of these things, but now nothing. What gives?
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Just because you're in SG mode doesn't mean you automatically get Prestige. You still have to do things.
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Uhg! We just started our SG over for the second time. Bad bad bad idea!
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Purely hypatheticel (with no facts to back it up) but a smoking gun that the dev's may intentionally fail to mention is that prestige can only be earned while raiding or defending base. Which they could do if they gave each SG an initial base fund of x amount of prestige.
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So...in order to get prestige, and a base, you would have to raid or...defend a base you don't have yet ?
Who gets the first base and by doing what ?
I'm confused...
I just thought I would add my two cents in.
I think that the idea of having prestige pay for Sg bases is kinda useless only for the fact that in order to do so, we have to change our costumes.
When have you ever seen Superman trade in his Red S for a JLA chest symbol?
Or Batman swap his black cape and cowl for a spiffy bright green motif with matching belt buckle and JLA com badge?
You don't. And you don't because even though they are part of a Supergroup they are still individal heroes.
They save the world every day, just like us, as a team but they don't all gather at the Watch Tower before a battle and color coordinate themselves.
My name is Badge. People see my chest symbol and know its me. I get tells saying how cool it is, that my back story, outfit etc all mesh well together.
I am one of the leaders of The Saints. I love my Sg. I have spent over 1500 hours fighting crime in this city, much of it with my Sg. I have done all the TF's many times. I have collected almost every badge there is. And I have done it all without ever turning on Sg mode.
So that means that according your new system all that work was for naught.
All those times I hung out with my Sg friends and enjoy their company was wasted.
All those hours I spent keeping this city safe, won't matter a bit.
And all the money I saved, so that I could pay for my Sg's base is useless.
I have enough inf right now, to pay for every enhancement my SG members will ever need.
And enough to outfit them with all new uniforms for every costume slot they have, that they can NEVER use if they want to get Prestige and help get us our base.
So, my questions to the Devs are these:
1) Why are you taking away from your fabulous character creation system by penalzing us for not wearing a standard uniform?
2) What is inf. good for? And don't say costumes or enhancements since any person past lvl 30 has enough for both and new costumes are no longer an added benifit to the game but rather a hindrence.
I still love this game but I would appreicate some answers so we can know how to play the game now, to get our bases then.
Thanks,
Badge
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Not sure if its been pointed out, as this will aleviate those who have an SG but don't want to wear SG colors (As opposed to those that don't have a Supergroup)
You CAN (in the settings) make your supergroup mode costume exactly the same as your normal costume. It does allow you to default to the color it already is.
That is all, thank you
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Not true.
That is all.
Thank you.
Is it time for an official declaration of DOOOOOOOOM yet?