SG mode to determine base rent?
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2005-08-22 09:50 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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There are, however, many of us that do not mind being in SG mode. Well considered, well designed and well planned Super Groups don't look silly in their costumes...
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You are mixing two points here: SG mode and prestige concept, separately, prestige is fairly acceptable, but what you propose here is to alter the hero original costume -either in its very design or by tweaking the chest emblem- to not look silly in SG mode, and what defines a hero's identity is his costume and chest emblem for most of us.
I am not against the prestige idea, like many others, I think it can be a neat idea.
What most of people complain about is not the prestige, it is that you have to be in SG mode, the simple fact that the most proposed solution is to choose for SG mode not to change your own colours demonstrates how SG mode is flawed.
Your solution just negates the SG mode use, while trying to make it unnoticeable.
Is the DEV team trying reasons for people droping this game im on a sg and the only time we use are colors is in arna battles this is BS we have about 900mil between everyone in sg we need something to spend it on I5 cut the SG in half alot quit i dont want to lose anymore
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Is the DEV team trying reasons for people droping this game im on a sg and the only time we use are colors is in arna battles this is BS we have about 900mil between everyone in sg we need something to spend it on I5 cut the SG in half alot quit i dont want to lose anymore
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Can I have your stuff?
Sheesh, going to quit a game because you have to click on a single button and enter SG mode. Sounds kinda silly to me.
Come on people, all we know is Lord Recluse said Prestige would be based on doing "stuff" in SG mode. No numbers, and nothing else. Yet you'd think it was the end of the world by some of the posts. Gah, it might be something as easily obtainable by a full team of 8 from a SG running a mission or two a month. Will it be more? Simply no one but Lord Recluse knows. And to make threats about quitting a game about something that is purely speculated sounds kinda stupid.
And if you can't do something as simple as that.... why do you 'deserve' a SG base then (in the eye's of the citizens).
Want an aura... have to do a task in-game to get it. Want a cape... have to do a task in-game to get it. Want the witchy-poo hat... have to do a task in-game to get it. Want SO's... have to advance in-game to get them. Want a Kheld... have to advance in-game to get them.
And yet simply entering SG mode for prestige points is 'unacceptable'.
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Come on people, all we know is Lord Recluse said Prestige would be based on doing "stuff" in SG mode. No numbers, and nothing else.
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Well... I distinctly remember my empath getting .33 prestige points on test (pre-I4) for an Absorb Pain. I was (probably) in SG mode but I know that I wasn't teamed with any of my SGmates at the time.
But. That was quite some time ago.
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Personally, I think the datamining of time spent in SG mode stinks. I don't know of a single SG out there that uses SG mode over an official SG costume and think it's a bad idea. I would rather have my SG dump 100 million a month in Influence into a base than be obligated to log in my character, enter a door mission, put him in SG mode, then go to bed just so I can build 'prestige' to pay base rent.
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Well, my SG uses supergroup mode instead os a costume Slot for an SG costume. We voted and people just didn't want to use a slot for an official SG costume. We also use the SG mode almost exclusivle , at least when we are teamed with SG mates. Except for a few very brief times I never play out of SG mode, and neither does my co-founder, we havent since level 12 (both level 49 and were started durnig the two day head start).
I don't generally like this prestige system, but wanted to point out that there are those SG's that use and like the supergroup mode setting. We actually were excited to see everyone sporting the SG colors and Symbol (even though it looks like a big Target on our chest).
If they do decide to do this and do datamine I suppose that my SG will be sitting nicely 
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Be a hero!!
This decision to use prestige is going to hurt my supergroup a lot, because sporting the supergroup colors simply isn't an option for many of the members:
There's the founder/leader, an old man who's worn the same suit for 40 years. The chest detail is a hand-shaped bloodstain left on it by his dying daughter. That stain even shows on his psychic self. He can't use supergroup mode because even if I don't change the colors, that crucial chest detail which is so definitive to his character will be replaced.
There's the once-dead hero who was reanimated in an experimental process by Vahzilok's minions. He contains more mechanical parts than most Abominations, including the chest device which pumps the experimental embalming fluid through his veins (which ignites when combined with adrenaline and electricity). If he switches to supergroup mode, that pump would disappear to be replaced by the supergroup symbol and then what would keep those fluids pumping, hmmm?
There's the bionic ex-cop walking army of munitions with his ammunition straps that can't peacefully coincide with the supergroup chest detail either.
The superstar diva type who takes great pride in her wardrobe and tends to change costumes very frequently wouldn't want to be stuck with the same colors for any long amount of time. Not to mention that many of her tops are custom made and wouldn't accomodate the supergroup's arbitrary chest detail.
A living embodiment of chaos whose name derives from the word "anarchy" can't really be expected to wear uniform colors with the rest of the group. He's really only tolerating being in the group at all because of how loose knit and dysfunctional it is.
So they don't deserve a base because they've got individual personalities/appearances? I mean, if there was a supergroup armband or something, I could see that working for most of the above characters. Until that day comes, only a small percentage of my supergroup's members will be earning prestige (and the leader won't be one of them).
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Almost asked this buried in my above post, but I think it requires a more stand alone view to keep from becoming entwined in the costume color debate.
There has been talk about "datamining" for determination of begining Prestige for existing SGs. Is anyone able to point where a Red Name has said this?
In a different debate that I cannot find, someone mentions the fact that they had enough trouble datamining for badge info and claim datamining the Task Forces to award badges was impossible. So, considering how much trouble it appears datamining has, will they even be able to determine how much time has been spent in and out of SG mode?
Much of the discussion here may be invalid. Can anyone direct us to the place where Data Mining is mentioned by someone on Staff?
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Look at it this way (no facts here just speculation), I believe villians will also have lairs or bases right? So im betting they will want us to start with equal amounts. None.
If they datamine and give us that head start in CoH it would unbalance (im starting to hate the word balance) things.
Just an opinion though.
The Kronos has a hold n00b!
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There has been talk about "datamining" for determination of begining Prestige for existing SGs. Is anyone able to point where a Red Name has said this?
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I'm pretty sure the devs aren't datamining except for recent statistical data. SG mode datatmining sounds like it would be at least as laborious as datamining for TF badges, and Positron has signalled that they aren't doing that anymore.
Something that I think would also be good would be the ability to link Supergroups together to pool prestige and buy one base.
You (the supergroup) could only be in one overall group. Leaving the overall group refunds all of your prestige (or perhaps only 75%, however the loss from the "pool" is the 100%). The remaining group loses equipment/size/etc starting with its latest or most expensive purchases until it covers the loss.
Would suit the groups that have "alt" groups to cope with numbers. They can have one base for everyone and the secretive, antisocial loner branch could even choose not to link up and build their own.
However it would also benefit little 2 or 3 person supergroups which could also band together and set up a Heroes Inc. bunch of offices, distinct yet housed together.
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There has been talk about "datamining" for determination of begining Prestige for existing SGs. Is anyone able to point where a Red Name has said this?
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Lord Recluse is reported as having said so at GenCon. See the very first post in the thread.
The reason datamining for this wouldn't be difficult is that they're logging time spent in SG mode already.
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There has been talk about "datamining" for determination of begining Prestige for existing SGs. Is anyone able to point where a Red Name has said this?
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Lord Recluse is reported as having said so at GenCon. See the very first post in the thread.
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Here is a repeat of that.
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This was posted on my SG boards this morning by someone who attended GenCon this last weekend:
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Other news from GenCon...
SG bases will not be purchased with Influence, they'll be purchased with something called 'Prestige', and you'll earn Prestige for the SG while you are in SuperGroup Mode.
Zeb said they'd be datamining for this so that once Prestige is implemented, already active SGs will have lots of it.
So, if we want to have a rockin' SG base as soon as we can, we should all start playing our X characters in SuperGroup Mode, pretty much all the time.
So sayeth the devs.
Personally, I think the datamining of time spent in SG mode stinks. I don't know of a single SG out there that uses SG mode over an official SG costume and think it's a bad idea. I would rather have my SG dump 100 million a month in Influence into a base than be obligated to log in my character, enter a door mission, put him in SG mode, then go to bed just so I can build 'prestige' to pay base rent.
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So we have someone reporting something that someone they know posted on a website after attending a conference. Third hand information blooming into full scale bewilderment. Short of someone getting a hold of an actual transcript of the conversation, I will choose to remain skeptical.
I do not doubt the OP saw this on his SG Website. I do not doubt that the person posted it believes it to be true. I would, however, like to know the exact context of the conversation. The difficulties mentioned by other Devs on the subject of datamining still makes it seem an unlikely solution for determining initial Prestige.
They may only datamine as far as looking to see when an SG was established. It may go no further than that.
Perhaps they will simply look at current SG rosters and determine Prestige based on the character with the largest amount of time played. Or perhaps a percentage taken from a cumulative amount of time played by all characters.
I do not know and I think without further clarification on the matter no one should start making claims about leaving the game because of it.
On the other hand, I am urging all my SGs members to use SG mode when they are playing these days. It doesnt hurt to hedge your bets.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
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This decision to use prestige is going to hurt my supergroup a lot, because sporting the supergroup colors simply isn't an option for many of the members:
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{snipping very cool character mini-bios}
It is wonderful that you are so very much into your characters. I love the Role Play aspects of this game and try to submerge myself into them as much as possible.
That being said, why cut off your nose despite your face?
For that matter, you seem to be a bit inflexible in your choice of using imagination. (Not saying unimaginative, saying you choose to not use imagination at this juncture)
I have an Alt that I like a lot. An Electricity/Devices Tech character whos powers come from her suit of armor. I dislike many of the SFX, especially on the devices side of the issue. I consider that all her powers emanate from the suit.
She doesnt throw caltrops. She deploys a electro-gravitic density field. This field slows opponents and causes localized high pressure damage.
She doesnt throw web grenades. She deploys high mass magnetic anchor bolos. This is just a higher power version of the previous device, but localized and designed to cause no damage for soft take downs.
She doesnt throw smoke bombs. She deploys a charged ionic screen of weighted magnetic particles. Invisible to the naked eye, they distort vision on persons without proper eye protection (which my teammates are given) and causes malfunctions in photoreceptors of electronic nature.
And I use the word deploys repetitively because I mostly abhor the throwing grenades thing. I do like the shoulder mounted turret system, like Freakshow has. Thats what my gal does, fires them off from a shoulder turret.
It all actually started as I tried to decide why bad guys didnt become suspicious when the room filled up with smoke and started writing the narrative in my head as to why smoke grenades didnt get everyone to turn and shoot at her. The Targeting Drone is my only external sfx that I consider intact, and I choose to believe that her ball lighting buddy is actually the drone using its own attack/defense mechanism.
So while I can respect that you are deeply involved in the background and mental image of your characters, I find your current position to be faulty. You perhaps may wish to unbend a little from your cherished ideals.
If in fact datamining will occur, or if it will only be an after it goes live sort of accounting for being in SG Mode, each and every person with an issue over this will have to decide what is more important. The tiny amount of lost individuality that comes from using SG Mode, or Prestige for your SG Base. If you choose to not use SG Mode, then you will get less Prestige. If you feel that this is a reason to leave the game, well
I wont miss you.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
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So we have someone reporting something that someone they know posted on a website after attending a conference.
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It was later confirmed by the guy who heard it.
Linked for your convenience.
Argent_Valour said:[ QUOTE ]
Something that I think would also be good would be the ability to link Supergroups together to pool prestige and buy one base.
You (the supergroup) could only be in one overall group. Leaving the overall group refunds all of your prestige (or perhaps only 75%, however the loss from the "pool" is the 100%). The remaining group loses equipment/size/etc starting with its latest or most expensive purchases until it covers the loss.
Would suit the groups that have "alt" groups to cope with numbers. They can have one base for everyone and the secretive, antisocial loner branch could even choose not to link up and build their own.
However it would also benefit little 2 or 3 person supergroups which could also band together and set up a Heroes Inc. bunch of offices, distinct yet housed together.
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This is an interesting, if complicated solution. At least it addresses the problem of alts, something few people seem to be discussing. What concerns me is that I thing the majority of players in SGs are going to run into alt trouble and yet there has been little talk about it.
I assume most of the people sharing ideas in this thread enjoy SGs or you wouldn't be concerned with bases. If you are reading this, how many alts do you have? Is there room for all of them in your SG?
I'm betting the majority of people in SGs cannot get all their alts in. With only 75 openings, 10 players could not put all 8 toons into one SG. Even with 5 alts, that limits an SG to 15 members (5x15=75). 
So, there are going to be time when you want to play an alt but you won't be earning Prestige for your SG simply because there was no room for the alt in the SG.
The solution quoted above might work but seems a bit complicated. I'd suggest removing the SG member cap. Yes, the DEVs were originally against it but the game has changed since the cap was put in place. Prestige will change it even more.
If not removal of the cap, at least a change to 75 player accounts instead of toons. Heck, we can only play one toon at a time.
My point is, we should be able to support our SG by earning prestige, no matter which toon we're playing..
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So we have someone reporting something that someone they know posted on a website after attending a conference.
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It was later confirmed by the guy who heard it.
Linked for your convenience.
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Lord recluse also responded to the post without denying anything. I'd call that confirmation 
If any of this wasn't true, I'd imagine they'd want to put out the firestorm it created.
I just don't see why Supergroup mode should be linked to the group's prestige. Noone recognizes your supergroup because, "Oh, I see you have a red and blue uniform, you must be in The Patriots", they know your supergroup because of the line written under your name. Wearing matching uniforms has very little to do with being in a supergroup. I only use supergroup mode to double my number of costume options.
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So we have someone reporting something that someone they know posted on a website after attending a conference.
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It was later confirmed by the guy who heard it.
Linked for your convenience.
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Lord recluse also responded to the post without denying anything. I'd call that confirmation If any of this wasn't true, I'd imagine they'd want to put out the firestorm it created.
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Thank you for pointing out where the person at Gen Con responded. I have also read Lord Recluses response about this matter. Neither one convinces me that data mining for how long each and every specific character in the Super Groups has spent in Super Group Mode will occur.
This is what was written: He also said that they had every intention of datamining for it (Prestige) so that when bases go live SGs can immediately start building them.
Nothing in that sentence declares that they will be datamining for how much time all members have previously spent actually in SG Mode, which is what so many people here are upset over.
Lord Recluse only confirmed that you do not earn Prestige for just standing around in your SG Mode costume, but rather (Like earning Influence) you actually have to be doing something.
Datamining will occur. All of my previous examples could fall under the intent of this quote from Gen Con. They may datamine for how long a SG has existed, they may datamine for how much time members of the SG have been playing. They may datamine for which character in the SG has the longest amount of time playing. They may do any of the above or an average of all of the above.
Color me still skeptical, but I see nothing that says that they may actually have a way to find out how long everyone has been in SG Mode and screw the others.
There is still far too much we do NOT know about this supposed datamining to be getting upset over it or threatening to quit the game.
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It is entirely possible that after initial Prestige is established that further Prestige will be received only while in SG Mode. So there is still a more than probable cause for that debate to continue.
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"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
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So while I can respect that you are deeply involved in the background and mental image of your characters, I find your current position to be faulty. You perhaps may wish to unbend a little from your cherished ideals.
If in fact datamining will occur, or if it will only be an after it goes live sort of accounting for being in SG Mode, each and every person with an issue over this will have to decide what is more important. The tiny amount of lost individuality that comes from using SG Mode, or Prestige for your SG Base. If you choose to not use SG Mode, then you will get less Prestige. If you feel that this is a reason to leave the game, well
I wont miss you.
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I'm not entirely sure why you feel that this may be a game-breaking issue for me, but thanks for making me feel welcome, I guess. I was simply trying to show that a supergroup can be a rich collection of individuals as well as a uniformed strike team and shouldn't be penalized for the former.
Comics examples of uniformed supergroups:
Green Lantern Corps
X-Men (at various stages)
New Mutants (at various stages)
X-Factor (at various stages)
Fantastic Four
The First Family
Crossbreed
Comics examples of non-uniformed supergroups:
Avengers (and branches thereof)
Justice League (and branches thereof)
Teen Titans
Defenders
X-Men (at various stages)
New Mutants (at various stages)
New Warriors
Alpha Flight
Excalibur
Honor Guard
Astro City Irregulars
Top Ten
WildC.A.T.S.
and most importantly... Freedom Phalanx
Those are off the top of my head. The point is that I feel basing supergroup resources off the amount of time spent in uniform feels like a very arbitrary yardstick that conflicts with the comic feel of the game. It equates to telling Statesman that if he leaves the Freedom Phalanx to make a new supergroup with Apex and Horus that they're not allowed to have a base of operations until they've all worn the same colored tights for a week. It just feels silly.
As to the other comment about not using my imagination to get over the graphical changes to my characters, well you're right. I could picture all of that stuff in my head, but this is a game in which my characters are also communicating visual information to other players. If I have to constantly explain why my supergroup leader's bio refers to a handprint bloodstain on his suit which is currently a nautical star chest detail... well, let's just say it breaks the immersion a bit. I like to mold my stories and power explanation around what's depicted in the game, because it keeps a level playing field with other characters.
Still no official word from the DEVs on changes to supergroups in light of the new "prestige". I remind you all that prestige will not be transferable, so only your toons in your SG will be able to earn it.
That means...
<ul type="square">[*]If you're in a coalition, you won't be able to share bases or prestige with other coalition members.[*]If your SG is split into several smaller SGs in game, they won't be able to contribute to the same base.[*]If all your toons don't fit into your SG, you won't be earning prestige for the SG when playing many of them.[/list]Keep in mind that the DEVs have said that large bases will be expensive, so if you want anything larger than a "modest" base (ugh!) you need to be earning prestige all the time. That means allowing larger SGs, so we need to get the member cap removed or substantially raised.
Also, in regards to cost, the DEVs have also stated that not only will bases be expensive, "rent" is going to be collected every 2 weeks. Also, some parts of the base will be destructable during raids, so those items will need to be replaced also.
So, please post here and also contact the DEVs to let them know you support removal of the artificial member cap. Thanks.
For those who haven't checked the Dev Digest today, Positron hath spoken thusly:
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We have NOT been recording SG mode since ANY issue. I will also confirm that NO datamining will be happening
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Also, on the CoH Stratics Chat last night (full transcript available here with an 'official' version coming soon hopefully), Lord Recluse said the following in response to 2 questions:
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Bases are paid for with Prestige which belongs to your supergroup. You'll need it to place items and then pay upkeep. Right now that's 2 times a month. Size has a big affect on upkeep, because it's calculated off the cost of your base and other stuff... You earn it by defeating foes similar to earning influence. However, you have to be in SG mode to gain it.
And yes, we're looking at allowing you to turn off your SG emblem for those folks who don't want to ruin a costume.
One thing about Prestige is as you get higher, it becomes a trade-off betwee Prestige or Influence. As you get more of the first, you get less of the second. So there are times you'll want to change to or from SG mode instead of being in it all the time.
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Zeb Cooke declared:[ QUOTE ]
One thing about Prestige is as you get higher, it becomes a trade-off betwee Prestige or Influence. As you get more of the first, you get less of the second. So there are times you'll want to change to or from SG mode instead of being in it all the time.
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Having fun is what it's all about. How does this make the game more fun? Below level 35, you earn prestige, influence and salvage simultaneously. There's no problem for 35 levels and making it an issue after that is an unneccessary complication. Frankly, it will make the game less fun for me.
Almost asked this buried in my above post, but I think it requires a more stand alone view to keep from becoming entwined in the costume color debate.
There has been talk about "datamining" for determination of begining Prestige for existing SGs. Is anyone able to point where a Red Name has said this?
In a different debate that I cannot find, someone mentions the fact that they had enough trouble datamining for badge info and claim datamining the Task Forces to award badges was impossible. So, considering how much trouble it appears datamining has, will they even be able to determine how much time has been spent in and out of SG mode?
Much of the discussion here may be invalid. Can anyone direct us to the place where Data Mining is mentioned by someone on Staff?
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"