SG mode to determine base rent?
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2005-08-22 09:50 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I'm looking for the SPECIFIC ISSUE that says CoH is based on the DC universe and all the rules that apply there.......
Sorry, but the DC universe != Marvel universe != CoH universe. Apples to oranges to pears.
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In other words, you've been caught out and are now weaseling. The superhero genre AS A WHOLE does NOT demand that all supeheroes have a "uniform" when in a "group". Some do, some don't. To impose one or the other violates genre conventions.
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Just so you all know, you CAN be in sg mode, without changing your costume colors at all. Just go into the settings, make sure all the colors are set to your normal costume colors, and then enter sg mode. I think the chest emblem might change.
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Then it's not good enough. ANY change imposed on the costume is unacceptable.
It is also just plain boring. Until I get 10 costume slots I will not be a member of a SG that requires a uniform.
(Obviously, this isn't required, as you CAN set your costume options for your SG uniform so that the only difference is the symbol on your chest. . .but stilll.)
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I sincerely hope that the Devs read these postings and determine that deciding prestige based on time in SG mode is not the way to go.
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Yeah, just like they listened to feedback on Instant Healing.
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besides, wouldn't it make more sense to base prestige off of time spent on SG TEAMS?? yanno, where members of the SG do things together? cos being seen in an SG costume ain't worth diddly unless you're actually doing something, and being teamed with other SG members should be a multiplier (you're reinforcing the group as a close-knit organization instead of just a bunch of guys with similar costumes.)
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I agree 100%. If we just have to be in SG mode, we can just change into our SG costumes all the time.
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Frankly, I'd rather we spend influence on bases. Why you ask? Because I'm drowning in the stuff, and I don't even have a level 50 yet. I hit Icon twice a week, my enhancements are always slotted up. We need more things to spend influence on.
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I am currently accepting donations.
I've waded through these posts for the last two days and see several things quoted and hurled back and forth. As several others have pointed out, we're just speculating on something that might not be as bad as everyone is building it up to be. We've had one, wait let me rephrase that, ONE red-named post in 30+ pages of thread. That one sentence didn't answer many questions, but everyone seems to be feeding words into what they want to hear, and most of it is doom and gloom.
The other thing I see alot of is quoting "so and so" hero from Marvel or DC doesn't do this or that. This isn't a Marvel or DC game. I understand the reasoning, and agree that the SG mode needs to be overhauled, but quoting comic characters' looks or group cohesion is pretty pointless. Also what's the deal with everybody whining about SG colors when don't have to pick them anyway? That should just be dropped. Although it does make me wonder, what groups are all of you joining? The l33t squad? Come on. I've joined and started several SGs and almost always been happy, or at least okay with, the colors and symbol chosen. Is everyone just joining the first SG that sends you a request? I always ask questions when asked to join. I would figure if you're recruiting for or joining a SG, you would do something similar to make sure you find people that you want to have in your SG. Also, I've formed brand new groups with founding members standing with me, so we decide on what everyone will be happy with right then and there. Yes, not every symbol will fit and not every color choice will work, but remember I said SG mode needs to be fixed (see above).
We also need to remember that villians in CoV will all be level one, no super group (or villian group or whatever it will be called) and will be a long way to level 50. All the level 50 SGs won't have any bases to raid for a long time, so except for whatever other material will be given to bases (hopefully SG missions and such) they'll be waiting anyway (I'm sure a thread will be started about that soon). Don't worry, I'll be working at leveling my villians up as fast as I can, but even the fastest power levelers (which I am not) won't get a full SG worth of people up to or near 50 anytime soon. A fair playing field needs to be set, so I'm against datamining too, unless it involves the time frame real close to the CoV release.
Prestige might work, once we have all the details. I'm sure there's going to be people that will complain anyway, because there always will be. Hopefully though, the system will be balanced and fair, whatever is decided. Until we get more info, all of this rant is purely for what... ranting?
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I sincerely hope that the Devs read these postings and determine that deciding prestige based on time in SG mode is not the way to go.
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Yeah, just like they listened to feedback on Instant Healing.
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Feedback is not only from threads that complain about a particular change. Most important feedback very likely comes in threads about other topics which the power impacts on. Threads about how easy certain things are, threads on how one AT impacts on another. There is also a very simple matter of checking out the information kiosks and finding out which AT and build is consistently topping the lists. Data mining and play testing against new options becoming available on the Test Server.
Id have to say, were I a Dev, that Id only take account less than ten percent of what folks say on the forums. Every change is greeted with a huge wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth and cries of Im leaving and then
Nothing. The game doesnt end. The world doesnt crack in half and swallow the Devs wholesale.
It is very rare that a Heres a change coming and I really like it thread is started. Most threads which are about the powers are complaints.
As my mom says, your prayers are always answered. Sometimes, however, the answer is no. The Devs in this game have shown what appears to be a remarkable willingness to listen to the forums and fans and canvass for feedback. They have also showed remarkable restraint and do not appease the winging and complaining.
And when they do listen, how happy have the player base really been? When the arena started, Super Speed and Super Running received the same ACC debuff that Flight already had. The forums went ballistic and they got their change. How happy is everyone with the speed suppression on all powers which was the result? I dont know of any Defenders or Controllers who are.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
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Just because you're in SG mode doesn't mean you automatically get Prestige. You still have to do things.
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if its not too much trouble and you can, could you please let us know what would be considered earning prestige?
Ex....
Street Sweeping
Missions
Task Forces
ect...ect....
Also how much prestige would you earn for doing certain things?
It would be nice to know what earns what to give us an idea on what to expect.
Thanks.
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Okay, so let me get this straight: I'm a superhero who wants to build a SUPERHERO base. To do so, I have to put down $50 for a game I don't even have an interest to play (City of Villians), just so I can be a SUPERHERO with a SUPERHERO base.
Then, the Devs are going to add insult to injury by telling me that the Influence I have been saving up for my SG base will not be able to be used for purchasing said base. But instead, I'll have to run around in my SG mode (a mode that no one wants to use because it ruins the individual look of their hero, either by costume color or emblem), just so I can earn this new form of currency called Prestige so I can finally get my SUPERHERO base.
What????!!!??
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. This game is suppose to be fun - making the players do something they do not want to do is NOT FUN FOR THEM.
Have the Devs ever even read a comic book??? How many comic book super groups wear identical team colors/emblems? Very few! The Avengers, Defenders, Invaders, Alpha Flight, Thunderbolts, New Warriors, Justice League, Justice Society, Teen Titans, and Outsiders DO NOT WEAR identical team costumes/emblems!!!! Heck, not even Paragon City's main SG the Freedom Phalanx wear SG Colors/Emblems!!!!! And the Devs are going to FORCE us to do so in order for us to get our SG bases? What a load of crud!
At this point, it's not even worth buying CoV if I'll have to distorte the look of my hero just to earn his SG base. Great idea, Devs. Another way to make City of Heroes less fun.
Founder/Leader of the JUSTICE F0RCE
http://JusticeForce.guildportal.com
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We also need to remember that villians in CoV will all be level one, no super group (or villian group or whatever it will be called) and will be a long way to level 50. All the level 50 SGs won't have any bases to raid for a long time, so except for whatever other material will be given to bases (hopefully SG missions and such) they'll be waiting anyway (I'm sure a thread will be started about that soon). Don't worry, I'll be working at leveling my villians up as fast as I can, but even the fastest power levelers (which I am not) won't get a full SG worth of people up to or near 50 anytime soon. A fair playing field needs to be set, so I'm against datamining too, unless it involves the time frame real close to the CoV release.
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My highest level hero has been around since the CoH beta days and when CoH went live I did not have to start him over. They allowed all beta heroes to continue on if you upgraded your account with the paid for game just like they most likely will when CoV goes live. We had to restart our SG's but not our heroes so it will not be a completely level playing field, some villians will till be around when CoV goes live That was our reward for beta testing CoH and it most likely will be the same with CoV.
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My highest level hero has been around since the CoH beta days and when CoH went live I did not have to start him over. They allowed all beta heroes to continue on if you upgraded your account with the paid for game just like they most likely will when CoV goes live. We had to restart our SG's but not our heroes so it will not be a completely level playing field, some villians will till be around when CoV goes live That was our reward for beta testing CoH and it most likely will be the same with CoV.
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This is BS, or you're the only one who kept a beta hero.
I and many others I know have beta tested, and none have kept a hero from beta test.
Only headstart players (pre-orders) kept their characters from the 3 days headstart.
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This was posted on my SG boards this morning by someone who attended GenCon this last weekend:
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Other news from GenCon...
SG bases will not be purchased with Influence, they'll be purchased with something called 'Prestige', and you'll earn Prestige for the SG while you are in SuperGroup Mode.
Zeb said they'd be datamining for this so that once Prestige is implemented, already active SGs will have lots of it.
So, if we want to have a rockin' SG base as soon as we can, we should all start playing our X characters in SuperGroup Mode, pretty much all the time.
So sayeth the devs.
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Personally, I think the datamining of time spent in SG mode stinks. I don't know of a single SG out there that uses SG mode over an official SG costume and think it's a bad idea. I would rather have my SG dump 100 million a month in Influence into a base than be obligated to log in my character, enter a door mission, put him in SG mode, then go to bed just so I can build 'prestige' to pay base rent.
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My supergroup usually uses Supergroup mode. There ya go, you just met one!
I'm not sure if Prestige is a good idea or not, but I DON'T like the idea of influence buying it. That's all well and good for high level groups or groups that have people with a billion extra influence, but what about low level groups? I have a low level group on Guardian and at this point none of us have any influence at all to spare. I'm not even close to filling up enhancements. I dunno, it just seems to me that Prestige at least allows supergroups of any level to be able to get these, and not just high level people with influence to spare.
Not that anyone will read this, but I think they should do the following:
1. No datamining.
2. You can buy base stuff with influence OR prestige (or both)
3. If you go into SG mode after CoV comes out, instead of generating influence, you generate prestige. The amount of prestige ANY character produces would be equal to the amount of influence a level 50 would earn for defeating monsters of the same relative level.
This would allow lowbie/mixed SGs to allow lowbie characters to contribute prestige, while giving influence two useful purposes: giving to the SG to buy stuff, and giving it to lower level heroes in the SG (The level 50s of the guild geenrate the influence for the SG, while the lowbie characters in the guild generate prestige for the guild)
good base features to help this would include influence and enhancement banks. With enhancement banks, all lowbie SGs could probally get by just with donated enhancements from the bank.
The only major flaw I can think of is that the powerleveling loophole will have to be closed (grouping with someone 7 levels below to maximize lower persons xp/influence) because high levels might bridge low levels in the SG simply to maximize the rate of prestige farmed.
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Personally, I think the datamining of time spent in SG mode stinks. I don't know of a single SG out there that uses SG mode over an official SG costume and think it's a bad idea. I would rather have my SG dump 100 million a month in Influence into a base than be obligated to log in my character, enter a door mission, put him in SG mode, then go to bed just so I can build 'prestige' to pay base rent.
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My supergroup usually uses Supergroup mode. There ya go, you just met one!
I'm not sure if Prestige is a good idea or not, but I DON'T like the idea of influence buying it. That's all well and good for high level groups or groups that have people with a billion extra influence, but what about low level groups? I have a low level group on Guardian and at this point none of us have any influence at all to spare. I'm not even close to filling up enhancements. I dunno, it just seems to me that Prestige at least allows supergroups of any level to be able to get these, and not just high level people with influence to spare.
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Another group as well. A SG I was in almost always used SG mode outfits when we were running missions together. And I know of at least 2 others that use it a lot as well on the server I play on. So, add 3 more to the list. 
As for the influence, another thing to keep in mind, CoV is going to have brand new lowbies starting out. Making them have to pay for a base in INF is grossly unfair to them, if the enhancement costs are the same for them as they are in CoH. Prestige sounds to be easily earnable by any level.
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My highest level hero has been around since the CoH beta days and when CoH went live I did not have to start him over. They allowed all beta heroes to continue on if you upgraded your account with the paid for game just like they most likely will when CoV goes live. We had to restart our SG's but not our heroes so it will not be a completely level playing field, some villians will till be around when CoV goes live That was our reward for beta testing CoH and it most likely will be the same with CoV.
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This is BS, or you're the only one who kept a beta hero.
I and many others I know have beta tested, and none have kept a hero from beta test.
Only headstart players (pre-orders) kept their characters from the 3 days headstart.
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Yes I paid for the pre-order also so when it upgraded my account to it for the three day head start I still had the same hero. If they do like they did for the CoH beta the three head start will start on a friday. You can catch up on a lot of levels over a weekend that you will lose when they wide it clean for going live.
So you didn't keep a character from beta, but a character from head start.
They never let testers keep beta charatcers, don't start spreading false informations.
Double post.
I never said I got to keep my levels just that I still have that Hero.
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I never said I got to keep my levels just that I still have that Hero.
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Sorry, didn't happen. Several days before the head start started, everything beta wise was turned off and wiped. No characters continued on from beta, unless it was by recreating them from scratch.
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Sorry, didn't happen. Several days before the head start started, everything beta wise was turned off and wiped. No characters continued on from beta, unless it was by recreating them from scratch.
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Hence, the Rikti War and the Surviving Eight.
For one I like the Prestige idea. This will make more sg's visible in the game. The only thing that concerns me is say an sg decides to farm Prestige full time, strictly 8-man sg teams as much as they can, I think the greater populace will get alittle xenophobic. Will these sgs wanna pick up the random person as a team filler? Or will they be worried about their prestige intake going down?
Another thing as far as costumes go, they should implement an sg option to maybe only have a small sg icon with the assigned colors on the symbol appear on a hero's outfit, kinda like what appears on some of the robe and female tops in costume options, not a full chest symbol. I think that would be a little more palatable. Let ppl keep their image, just stamp them.
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Just because you're in SG mode doesn't mean you automatically get Prestige. You still have to do things.
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I certainly hope that if it's required we be in SG mode to pay our Base rent, that you fix the bugs associated with changing costumes while in SG mode.
It's annoying to change costumes and have to go back EVERY time and reset all the colors.
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For one I like the Prestige idea. This will make more sg's visible in the game. The only thing that concerns me is say an sg decides to farm Prestige full time, strictly 8-man sg teams as much as they can, I think the greater populace will get alittle xenophobic. Will these sgs wanna pick up the random person as a team filler? Or will they be worried about their prestige intake going down?
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That's actually hitting what's bugging me squarely on the head. I couldn't quite put it, but I think I can now. It's responsibility. We all know that having a responsibility is not a cool thing. We are given responsibilities when we go to work or school or university, and those responsibilities make us tired. We sometimes choose to take on responsibilities, because we respect or like or love the people who we become responsible for. That tires us, but the result is worth it.
I believe that if prestige becomes what keeps a SG inside their base, then a responsibility will be lumped on all our shoulders - to play and pay the rent. Sure, a base isn't a vital necessity. Sure, our SG might not actively enforce it. But it's an unspoken responsibility nonetheless. When your whole SG pulls together to pay the rent, will you feel well to be slacking or offline or playing an alt? When your SG-mates look at you like you're a lazy man, they don't need to say it. It's s obvious by their attitude. When you're put in a position of having to do something for the common good, can you lighteartedly say that it really doesn't matter?
An unspoken responsibility weighs heavier than any decided or forced one. It is not a responsibility you chose to take, or were forced to take, it's a responsibility you feel you have. And that is tiring. Very, very tiring. And I don't mean being sleepy or beat, I mean mentally tired, when you don't want to do anything but sit and look at one point in space.
This is a game. We shouldn't be given constantly-looming responsibilities. This goes beyond the passive "not fun" and goes into the aggressive "stressing out".
I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but it does not seem so.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Just wanted to add another "I think this is a poor choice" to the list.
Our SG never uses SG mode. When the founder of the SG created it way back when, he didn't know that a) the SG colors and symbol wouldn't replace his own costume, and therefore just made it match his current suit, and b) the SG would ever grow to what it's now become.
We patrol and play in a highly visible orange uniform. It's optional for every member, but I can't think of anyone who doesn't currently have it. When we decided we wanted a uniform, the choice was either to create a costume template or disband and reform the entire SG. Naturally, we chose the former of the two choices.
Has not playing in "SG Mode" made us any less "prestigious," then? Seeing as the SG I'm referring to was voted "Favorite Supergroup on Infinity" in the First Annual Heroes Choice Awards, I certainly don't think it does. So it would be a crying shame to not be recognized so highly within the server, but yet not be able to afford even the most basic of bases because we never have, and most likely never will, play in "SG Mode." We're incredibly active, we play in identical costumes from the neck down, and we've been around for over a year ... but our lack of SG Mode usage could keep us from one of the most anticipated new features of the game.
Please rethink this strategy. There's a lot more to "Prestige" than turning on your supergroup mode button, and most of it can't be judged by raw data mining alone.
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Bravo! Great post Roughtrade.
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Wow!
No one's ever liked me before... What do I say?
Uhh.... MORE COWBELL!
Actually, thanks but I think I was just restating what some other had said, I just sort'a put it in one place. Except for that "my opinion" stuff.
I'd like to see more rewards of this nature. Reward people who play the game according to the theme, the genre, the heart of CoH instead of those who view it as just another MMORPG to conquer and pillage.
Tho I will admit that maybe they should do something about letting Influence buy Prestige. Maybe something like a ten to one ratio, or hundred to one. I mean, all my jibes at loner Batman aside, he does have the best "headquarters" of anyone in the genre. The Fortress of Solitude only happened because Clark had cape envy.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"