And in spite of all of this, there's very little consideration for any changeover date, the impact of lost servers and a lost playerbase (people may be staying on, but a lot of people have also left) and also people who may or may not accept job offers in the interim.
I am not so invested or selfish or foolish enough to think that industry professionals such as the team at Paragon Studios will not seek other employment; to ask people not to put food on the table for ones family is a little hypocritical in my book.
All I'm asking is for people to look at the situation a little pragmatically and a little realistically. It's not a matter of flipping a switch and magically playing again come December 1st. If the game comes back, and I expect it very unlikely at best to be under an NCSoft banner, there will be a lag time to put together a new infrastructure. And Paragon Studios may not have significant things such as the core game engine. These are not flights of fancy; these are realities that will and may be as I type this, negotiating points between the parties.
So yes, remain hopeful, but also give a little thought about just what going out from under the umbrella of one publisher to another or even more significantly on their own means in real-world terms. Because this game will not return magically as it stands now. Things have and will change between now and the end of November.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
90% first try. That was...
Well. Words fail me here.
Mike
/nostalgia is fun!
//Also... creeped out a little. o.0
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
Quote:
This.|
Originally Posted by SuperOz
And in spite of all of this, there's very little consideration for any changeover date, the impact of lost servers and a lost playerbase (people may be staying on, but a lot of people have also left) and also people who may or may not accept job offers in the interim.
I am not so invested or selfish or foolish enough to think that industry professionals such as the team at Paragon Studios will not seek other employment; to ask people not to put food on the table for ones family is a little hypocritical in my book. All I'm asking is for people to look at the situation a little pragmatically and a little realistically. It's not a matter of flipping a switch and magically playing again come December 1st. If the game comes back, and I expect it very unlikely at best to be under an NCSoft banner, there will be a lag time to put together a new infrastructure. And Paragon Studios may not have significant things such as the core game engine. These are not flights of fancy; these are realities that will and may be as I type this, negotiating points between the parties. So yes, remain hopeful, but also give a little thought about just what going out from under the umbrella of one publisher to another or even more significantly on their own means in real-world terms. Because this game will not return magically as it stands now. Things have and will change between now and the end of November. S. |
I think in the
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....,5093.180.html, as may or may not be obvious is that the Nov. 30th shutdown will still happen, and although they opened a dedicated email address, it may mean they are truly listening or a ruse to make it look like they are listening. I believe more in the first one. The refund thing seems to be nothing unusual for them as I would hope they would hope that players from COX still believe in them and try some of their other topics so just taking the money and running probably wouldnt be a smart thing to do if that is the goal. That is of hoping that COX players subscribe to their other offerings of the company instead of going somewhere else and lining another company's pockets.
Now the question is will or will not another company or some form of "Paragon Studios" depending on own the rights to the name and if NCSoft is willing to let that go (probably part of the negotiations) pick the game up and run with it. And depending on how much NCSoft is willing to sell or let go probably will greatly affect the reincarnation, if any, of COH in the future.
Sometimes corporations discontinue a product and or kill a product and hold on to the important rights so that no one, especially a competitor picks it up and make possibly more out of it and or do better job with said product as then it would make the company that threw it away in the first place look like idiots and of course that usually dont sit well with stockholders. Some have no need for a product and sell it for a price and given that this game was still raking in some sort of profit, probably a hefty price. Then some others hold on to the dead product to reincarnate it later or use it for other stuff i.e. game engine, concepts, IP, and etc.
As said earlier even if the success happens for players, it probably will be a long down time before it's up again even if NCSoft just hands everything over. Of course it will be longer if NCSoft decides to hang on to other things, whether willingly or because a third part contract, then the down time will be even longer to fill in the gaps. Even something as simple if NCSoft decides to hold on to the Paragon Studio name and TM, then of course any reference to Paragon may have to remove from the game. This is just as an example. The negotiations, although not many details about what the negotiations entail that I know of, may be about a number of things. Maybe it was about the refund, maybe it was about the game engine, maybe the concept artwork, IP, who knows or even employee severance package and the ability of them to continue with the game. It may be all about the money at this point of NCSoft might be saying, "We'll think about it."
Just as they probably didnt decide to end Paragon Studios and COX overnight, it probably will take 5-10 times as long for the negotiations with the matters that could be at hand. Even though it came as a shock to the player and stuff, I'm sure they had their bean counters weighing the pros and cons of the decision for a while now and given that most if any corporation would make a move like that without consulting the shareholders, at least the major ones, is not probable. And just getting a shareholder meeting together is something that may take a month or 6 in advance in itself.
I guess at this point the best thing to do is to wait and see and continue the efforts. The more players leave and abandon ship the less potential profits any potential buyer will see and the less likely they will jump into the project to keep this game rolling in the future. Probably will be a major announcement after the refunds are divvied out, unless something of new flash worthy changes that dont fall under the NDA.
-Female Player-
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
Quote:
Yeah jedis don't deal in absolutes my left foot. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Do, or do not. There is no try.
- Yoda  |
I'm optimistic, but I just don't think NCSoft will let anything good happen at this point.
Partial victory trumps no victory.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
(farnsworth hat)
It seems that: 'Position: NorCal Studio General Manager/City of Franchise Executive Producer ' is still in communications and negotiations with NCSoft regarding our plight. Reference taken from comment at cohtitan and reposted here. Someone may have beaten me to the punch, but as of 1 hour ago when I initially tried to open this new thread, there was none here. edit: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....,5093.180.html post 181 |
While I'm not really hopeful myself, there's no point in not wishing for miracles. I'm going to keep all my points in my CoH account for now (I have about 4300), and hope that I'll be able to transfer them to Paragon Studios. I figure I have until Nov 1 at least to send customer support a message if it really looks like this isn't going to happen.
Quote:
Mercedes Lackey. So yeah, I'd say its dependable. She is busting her tail off to try and save Paragon and City of Heroes.
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Originally Posted by Severe
yeah i wouldnt get your hopes too high up yet. this is all heresay and means little to nothing. who exactly "talked" to brian clayton? and why were you with brian to begin with?
that might help make it more credible...hell anyone here could start a rumor as much as this one. |
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
According to ML's most recent post this morning, it's all still under consideration.
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....fhh61jkr03eav0
(post 250)
That's what gives me the most hope. There's people out there with actual connections who love this game as much as the rest of us also don't want to see this game die.
(Not that "the rest of us" aren't important, too. We have numbers on our side)
Makes me want to re-read all my Valdemar books, but they're a continent away right now. I need to see if they have any at the sole bookstore in the area with any English books in them.
It's good to know they're still talking. To an investor that was looking for steady returns from a proven title rather than gambling on the next supposed 'WoW killer' CoH could be an attractive property, depending on what price NCsoft are asking, of course.
In any case, if they do succeed I'll resub in an instant. I've got way too much still to do in this game.
Quote:
All your points are quite valid, I guess where our viewpoints diverge is your impression that people expressing their support of CoH and Paragon Studios are ignoring reality and expecting an instant reprieve for the game with no interruption of services. I know I don't and I'm pretty sure that anyone following this situation isn't expecting Brian Clayton to walk out the front doors of NCSoft tomorrow with a big smile and announce to a horde of reporters that NCSoft have reversed their decision, reinstated all Paragon staff, doubled their budget and pledged a minimum of 10 years support for CoH.|
Originally Posted by SuperOz
And in spite of all of this, there's very little consideration for any changeover date, the impact of lost servers and a lost playerbase (people may be staying on, but a lot of people have also left) and also people who may or may not accept job offers in the interim.
I am not so invested or selfish or foolish enough to think that industry professionals such as the team at Paragon Studios will not seek other employment; to ask people not to put food on the table for ones family is a little hypocritical in my book. All I'm asking is for people to look at the situation a little pragmatically and a little realistically. It's not a matter of flipping a switch and magically playing again come December 1st. If the game comes back, and I expect it very unlikely at best to be under an NCSoft banner, there will be a lag time to put together a new infrastructure. And Paragon Studios may not have significant things such as the core game engine. These are not flights of fancy; these are realities that will and may be as I type this, negotiating points between the parties. So yes, remain hopeful, but also give a little thought about just what going out from under the umbrella of one publisher to another or even more significantly on their own means in real-world terms. Because this game will not return magically as it stands now. Things have and will change between now and the end of November. S. |
In the discussions over at the Titan Network regarding 'Plans A-Z' that option was never really considered and that really is the only option that allows for uninterrupted service. I feel that most people involved with the fight for CoH understand that the miracle they are fighting for is not an instant reprieve, but just the chance for the game to continue in some meaningful form in the future.
Most of the legal 'nitty-gritty' regarding changeover dates, licenses, engines, IP, etc. are parts of the negotiation we'll never be privy too and can't really influence in any case, which is why they are not high-profile factors in our fight for CoH. What we have to focus on is the fact that Paragon Studios had customers lining up to buy their products right up until they were shut down. That even after the closure, a significant number of those customers are publicly and positively displaying their support through various means including letters and emails, social media and in-game events. These factors can only improve Paragon's bargaining position with NCSoft and any possible investors.
Personally, I'd be happy to invest my upcoming refund and continue paying the equivalent of my monthly subscription into the coffers of a reborn Paragon Studios (whatever it might be called) that had the stated goal of restarting CoH from Issue 24 some time in the future (the 'short term' option) or I would contribute to crowdsourced funding for a CoH2 project or spiritual successor to CoH with a new engine, IP etc. (the 'long term' option).
Also, I don't think I've ever seen anyone asking former Paragon team members to wait for a miraculous reprieve. I've only seen an outpouring of sympathy and best wishes for their future. I certainly don't expect them to put their personal and professional lives on hold just on the off chance that CoH can be saved.
On the other hand, I think you might be underestimating the team spirit that was obviously part of Paragon Studios. Everything we've seen involving their reactions to the closure emphasises how much they loved working on City of Heroes and working together. Whatever happens to Paragon Studios as a corporate entity, I doubt that will change.
I agree that rebuilding the entire team to work on a reborn CoH would be very difficult, but the team has lost members before and carried on. Sometimes even recruiting new staff members from players and fans. I see no reason why this process wouldn't continue if Paragon Studios reboots itself. I wish all former Paragon staff the best of luck in their pursuit of employment, but I'd be more than happy to welcome them back to Paragon Studios if that opportunity presents itself.
In my own life I am lucky enough to love what I do for a living. If some (unthinkable) circumstance caused me to lose my job, I'd be very sad but of course I would look for other employment. However, if some miracle offered me the opportunity to return to my dream job? I would move heaven and earth to do it. I suspect many of our devs feel the same way about CoH and Paragon.
Quote:
If the game is saved, I'll do the Celebratory Dance of Ger - and record it and upload it.
|
Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
Sorry, I see the phrase "dance of joy" and this is the only one I ever think of (not one of the two linked above).
Michelle aka Samuraiko/Dark_Respite |
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by GreyScribe
All your points are quite valid, I guess where our viewpoints diverge is your impression that people expressing their support of CoH and Paragon Studios are ignoring reality and expecting an instant reprieve for the game with no interruption of services. I know I don't and I'm pretty sure that anyone following this situation isn't expecting Brian Clayton to walk out the front doors of NCSoft tomorrow with a big smile and announce to a horde of reporters that NCSoft have reversed their decision, reinstated all Paragon staff, doubled their budget and pledged a minimum of 10 years support for CoH.
In the discussions over at the Titan Network regarding 'Plans A-Z' that option was never really considered and that really is the only option that allows for uninterrupted service. I feel that most people involved with the fight for CoH understand that the miracle they are fighting for is not an instant reprieve, but just the chance for the game to continue in some meaningful form in the future. Most of the legal 'nitty-gritty' regarding changeover dates, licenses, engines, IP, etc. are parts of the negotiation we'll never be privy too and can't really influence in any case, which is why they are not high-profile factors in our fight for CoH. What we have to focus on is the fact that Paragon Studios had customers lining up to buy their products right up until they were shut down. That even after the closure, a significant number of those customers are publicly and positively displaying their support through various means including letters and emails, social media and in-game events. These factors can only improve Paragon's bargaining position with NCSoft and any possible investors. Personally, I'd be happy to invest my upcoming refund and continue paying the equivalent of my monthly subscription into the coffers of a reborn Paragon Studios (whatever it might be called) that had the stated goal of restarting CoH from Issue 24 some time in the future (the 'short term' option) or I would contribute to crowdsourced funding for a CoH2 project or spiritual successor to CoH with a new engine, IP etc. (the 'long term' option). Also, I don't think I've ever seen anyone asking former Paragon team members to wait for a miraculous reprieve. I've only seen an outpouring of sympathy and best wishes for their future. I certainly don't expect them to put their personal and professional lives on hold just on the off chance that CoH can be saved. On the other hand, I think you might be underestimating the team spirit that was obviously part of Paragon Studios. Everything we've seen involving their reactions to the closure emphasises how much they loved working on City of Heroes and working together. Whatever happens to Paragon Studios as a corporate entity, I doubt that will change. I agree that rebuilding the entire team to work on a reborn CoH would be very difficult, but the team has lost members before and carried on. Sometimes even recruiting new staff members from players and fans. I see no reason why this process wouldn't continue if Paragon Studios reboots itself. I wish all former Paragon staff the best of luck in their pursuit of employment, but I'd be more than happy to welcome them back to Paragon Studios if that opportunity presents itself. In my own life I am lucky enough to love what I do for a living. If some (unthinkable) circumstance caused me to lose my job, I'd be very sad but of course I would look for other employment. However, if some miracle offered me the opportunity to return to my dream job? I would move heaven and earth to do it. I suspect many of our devs feel the same way about CoH and Paragon. |
I need to clarify my standpoint somewhat. Whilst I may not be radiating hope
, I am cautiously optimistic. I'm not underestimating the team camraderie at Paragon Studios and the individuals within it. I'm not even thinking that the individuals working both within the game without it to achieve some long-term goal for the game are anything less than dedicated genuine individuals. However. What I am doing is my best to walk a middle ground between optimism and expectation. I've mentioned this in one other thread, but if anything needs to be made clear here, it's just what will be involved should negotiations go well so people aren't belaboring under false impressions, a lot of which seem to be doing the rounds here. I really don't expect to pick up where I left off with any of my characters; if there's a CoH 2.0, then my character, even my playstyle might be different. Or it may be a game I for whatever reason decide isn't for me.
And that's precisely my point; if it's not being made clear that there are going to be changes, and things are not just going to be business as usual be it long-term, short-term or anything else, then that in itself is going to cause quite a lot of problems for everyone.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SuperOz
I need to clarify my standpoint somewhat. Whilst I may not be radiating hope
, I am cautiously optimistic. I'm not underestimating the team camraderie at Paragon Studios and the individuals within it. I'm not even thinking that the individuals working both within the game without it to achieve some long-term goal for the game are anything less than dedicated genuine individuals. However. What I am doing is my best to walk a middle ground between optimism and expectation. I've mentioned this in one other thread, but if anything needs to be made clear here, it's just what will be involved should negotiations go well so people aren't belaboring under false impressions, a lot of which seem to be doing the rounds here. I really don't expect to pick up where I left off with any of my characters; if there's a CoH 2.0, then my character, even my playstyle might be different. Or it may be a game I for whatever reason decide isn't for me. And that's precisely my point; if it's not being made clear that there are going to be changes, and things are not just going to be business as usual be it long-term, short-term or anything else, then that in itself is going to cause quite a lot of problems for everyone. S. |
No one is assuming this will be "business as usual" under new leadership. We can't. I've already said there could be a gap in service from November 30th shutdown until new leadership hits the "go live" switch.
This type of transaction is in no way simple, but let's not pretend the new leadership and its fan base aren't aware that there is more work ahead - because they are.
Yeah, I really don't understand why people constantly assume that positive and exuberant efforts mean delusion.
I've really not seen such ridiculous assumptions coming from anyone I've dealt with in our efforts to make this as publicly known as possible, to show our support to the people of Paragon Studios and to do what we can to prove this business venture's worth to interested and potential investors and to bolster any and all momentum towards a selling and a buyout.
There are many different ways it can all shake out and everyone I've interacted with understands that.
I understand that a lot of people feel the need (and it may be right for them) to counterbalance against the potential disappointments of being overly optimistic... but I think most of the people putting in the efforts are a bit more like me in that... I can't live like that. I believe in what I want to make happen and I go for it. I'll deal with the fallout afterward, but I'm not going to waste the moment by guarding myself against getting enthused and being positive.
I'm absolutely not knocking anyone for how they feel. I'm simply trying to explain my own stance on such things. And I only ask that people try not to be wet blankets, is all.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Which says it all. For me, anyway. |
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Mercedes Lackey.
|
Serenity is not freedom from the storm, but peace amid the storm ...
Quote:
When someone is dying you focus on saving their life first, not dwelling on the medical bills and recuperative therapy. There will be plenty of time to give thought to what happens after the game is saved, if its saved.|
Originally Posted by SuperOz
And in spite of all of this, there's very little consideration for any changeover date, the impact of lost servers and a lost playerbase (people may be staying on, but a lot of people have also left) and also people who may or may not accept job offers in the interim.
I am not so invested or selfish or foolish enough to think that industry professionals such as the team at Paragon Studios will not seek other employment; to ask people not to put food on the table for ones family is a little hypocritical in my book. All I'm asking is for people to look at the situation a little pragmatically and a little realistically. It's not a matter of flipping a switch and magically playing again come December 1st. If the game comes back, and I expect it very unlikely at best to be under an NCSoft banner, there will be a lag time to put together a new infrastructure. And Paragon Studios may not have significant things such as the core game engine. These are not flights of fancy; these are realities that will and may be as I type this, negotiating points between the parties. So yes, remain hopeful, but also give a little thought about just what going out from under the umbrella of one publisher to another or even more significantly on their own means in real-world terms. Because this game will not return magically as it stands now. Things have and will change between now and the end of November. |
If you want people to think realistically, then realistically the odds of the game being saved in any manner whatsoever are pretty low. But then again, the odds of actually saving someone's life through CPR are pretty low also.
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I really suspect that NCsoft isn't malicious in this process, but they do have risks in transferring accounts to a separate entity. It is possible that they will shy away or ask for too much compensation (or maybe there are lingering issues with the engine and IP from cryptic). Anyways, if all goes well, I am ready and waiting to throw some money at any CoH entity.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
Quote:
But even then at some point in time the death certificate is written and or the plug is |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
. But then again, the odds of actually saving someone's life through CPR are pretty low also.
|
pulled after a while.
-Female Player-
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Quote:
My, aren't you sunshine and roses! Lol. Why are you even still here bothering to post or play CoH then?
|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
But even then at some point in time the death certificate is written and or the plug is
pulled after a while. |
Quote:
Yes, at some point. We're not to that point, though. The most obvious sign that we're not there yet is that there are negotiations going on (i.e. what this thread is about). As long as those are ongoing, we have a realistic chance for success. Still slim, but certainly non-zero.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
But even then at some point in time the death certificate is written and or the plug is
pulled after a while. |
Even if those fall through, that won't be the final nail in the coffin.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Quote:
It tells me a lot of people probably purchased points a few days beforehand thanks to nature affinity and NCSoft doesn't want to refund more than it can absolutely get away with, even though someone who purchased points on the 17th or the 10th or had a balance left over is as out in the cold as anyone who purchased points on the 24th or later.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
It doesn't tell me anything in particular.
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Quote:
Very few people seem to be operating as if that's not true. It seems needlessly pessimistic to bother pointing it out. It's like reminding everyone that, yes, we will all actually die someday. We all know that. Some of us even make plans regarding it, especially as we grow older. But even when we're at an age where it's likely we'll keel over, no one really wants to be reminded over and over "hey, you know, you're probably going to die soon."|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
But even then at some point in time the death certificate is written and or the plug is pulled after a while.
|
CoH ending isn't comparable to dying for its players, no matter how upset they may be over it, but they still really appreciate someone reminding them constantly how likely it is that CoH is going to end forever on November 30. The game is still here, and for some of us, we plan to make use of that fact until then.
And if someone pulls off a miracle, even a delayed one? That'd be fan-fricking-tastic. You can remind people to have well-grounded expectations without being a sourpuss.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I can't believe none of you mentioned this site: http://nothingsgonnastopmenow.com/
If you haven't seen it, I seriously suggest you click it.
Well, with just my first run, I gained a 56% chance of "saving city of heroes" for us!
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan