Rubberlad
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Posts
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Joined
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****, I broke a nail fighting Scirocco! SCIROCCO!!! (facepalm, then shutdown)
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Friday night is coming fast... what will you be doing when the servers shut down forever? More specifically:
What toon?
What server?
What zone? -
As the days wind down for our favorite superhero MMO game of all time, I thought it'd be interesting to try and take screenshots of various locations in CoH and present them as semi-artistic "snapshots." To that end, I now present the following 8 snapshots echoing the "realness" and "humbling solitude" of the virtual world around us that we call "City of Heroes" (as witnessed by our avatars).
For me, these "snapshots" are a prime example of how MMO games can evoke feelings of spirituality, emotion and "virtual realism" in the universal player's mind (as conveyed by the strategic use of avatar-centric camera angles and emotes).
Please feel free to post your own artistic depictions of the City for everyone to enjoy. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
Actually, i think it's the other way around...they give you the right to use but do not relinquish ownership of any content associated with the IP in Section 6 of the EULA
They also defined content as anything related to the game that isn't software or service and software being software provided by NCSoft including those installed on your computer.
I guess Character ID is the name of your characters also.
I think they also give themselves a provision to go after anything that exports those content like copying costumes to a third party. Whether or not they do anything about that is up to them. They probably won't.
There's also something about emulating the software in section 7...section 2 has something about agreeing not to reverse engineer.
I love that you guys are spending your final hours on the Titanic arguing if liability for damaged luggage is covered by the shipping company's insurance policy or the customers...
People, the luggage is going down with the ship... Now either sink or swim but stop worrying about the bloody claim policy!
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I'm starting to realize that the decision to pull the plug on City of Heroes may *not* have been NCsoft's call alone after all... I advise folks to keep an eye on their majority investor, Nexon, for the next few weeks.
June 8, 2012: http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...biggest-holder
October 5, 2012: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaud...ure-of-gaming/
October 19, 2012: http://www.heraldonline.com/2012/10/...d-quarter.html -
I'm sorry, this is a blanket response from NCwest.
If the response isn't from NCsoft Korea, then the pressure isn't being felt. -
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Folks, how many times are we going to derail a thread with the Richard Garriott letter? Every time someone tries to discuss the *current* state of affairs, the conversation goes south because one of two people (and always one of the same two people I'll admit) comes into the thread and kicks it sideways... And this is the FIFTH thread since the shutdown announcement to argue over Richard Garriott's forged letter...
There's no good to come of constantly debating its existence - and its not helping matters where the future of City of Heroes is concerned. The forum trolls love it when you get sidetracked like this because it means you're not staying on topic... -
Wait, I don't think anyone picked Praetoria... too revolutionary?
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Quote:Great, so you're sleeping with CoH's version of Octopussy...?Originally Posted by Xanatos
Good luck, Mr. Bond, lol! -
Quote:Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Penthouse in Founders.
A place where *I* would have a clear line of sight of all the Crey snipers.
Jeeves, fetch me my tripod!
Mmmmmm.... Crey.... -
Pick a place, a building, a cave, a zone or anything else you can think of where you would settle down in if you could?
Me, I think I'd get a timeshare in Croatoa overlooking the resort beaches, and buy a townhouse in St.Martial... -
Quote:Originally Posted by Brillig
There you go again.
You add six "multi-millions" together and somehow magically get a billion? (We won't mention your retreat from billions to billion.) Then you pile on the assumption that CoH was profitable. You keep pointing at a five year old news article while failing to understand the distinction between won and dollars. The 'scandalous' amount that Dr. Yoon was being paid for being on the board? 100 million Won? That's $100,000. Not millions, and quite frankly, picayune compared to what Directors in the US make.
NCSoft may have lost credibility. You and Mercedes Lackey aren't doing so well either. I especially like the part where she compares NCSoft to murderers.
It's. A. Game.Quote:Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Ok, to be fair, pretty much ALL MMO's will cost a few million to develop, however, lets get this a bit more accurate shall we?
NCSoft *DID NOT* develop Point Blank (developed by Zepetto) *NOR* Dragonica (Barunson Interactive), they licensed them. In fact, both of those titles have *multiple* publishers, some even in the same same regions as NCsoft operates in. So that is 2 of the titles that you are citing out of the window. Dragonica is *still* active right now Wiki page, you need to go down to Development, and you can see it there. Hell, it is still active in the US and EU markets.- Auto Assault: no idea how much it cost to develop, but it wasn't profitable.
- Exteel: according to wikipedia (so take that as you will), was apparently closed down due to a lack of *stable* financial income and waning interest from players.
- Dungeon Runners: Was never a "big budget" MMO, and according to wikipedia (again!) the developers themselves said:
- Tabula Rasa: Cost a bomb, didn't make a penny back really.
But if you are saying that someone is lacking credibility, then that *doesn't* mean that everything you say against them is true. That is what I am trying to correct here.
Some little fact checking along the line is always handy.
Side note: How profitable was City of Heroes by the way? I await your answer and how you got to that figure as well.All valid points.Quote:Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
There might have been dubious motives for the supposed "open letter" by Garriot but it wasn't so much a forgery since Garriot approved it even if he didn't write it.
Not really trying to absolve NCSoft but Mercedes Lackey's information is slightly off when it comes to the alleged forgery portion.
So what do you each think is the best course of action to take now? -
Quote:They developed 6 multi-million dollar turkeys, killed the 7th multi-million dollar turkey while it was still profitable AND spent at least half a million on litigation versus Richard Garriott and ultimately lost because they forged documentation... If we count the eight unknown turkey that Paragon Studios was working on alongside City of Heroes...Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
And yet, you find that all of the controversies totally valid?
As i said, I would give you one of them (the Richard Garriot one), but the other 2 are *not* valid claims to hate upon NCsoft. Hell, if anything, the patent case one is interesting in its own right, because City of Heroes was actually *cited* in the court documents as infringing on patents.
I *DID* read link 5, infact I used that as a basis for the everything. I couldn't find anything that referred to "Billions of dI24ollars" *at all*. In fact, dollars gets mentioned in just 2 paragraphs. One the cost of development for TR (apparently $100million), and then in the following paragraph where it goes into the hiring of the Garriot brothers ($17 million in cash, roughly $50million for 1.5million in share options).
So, once again, please *clarify* where is states that they lost "Billions of dollars".
I will accept "millions", even "a couple hundred million in developing a turkey and bringing in the Garriots" (although they were also responsible for getting NCsoft into the US market in the 1st place)
But once again, there is *no* mention of "Billions of dollars".
Well, it's about a billion lost on dead end development projects, lawsuits and City of Heroes which was still turning a profit. And it all happened in 5 years under Mr. Kim's watch while he and his wife, Dr. Yoon pocketed millions on the side. Again, that is a statement made in the Korean Times article I linked (towards the bottom).
As Mercedes Lackey pointed out elsewhere, NCsoft lost all credibility the minute they forged documentation. It's not worth trying to pretend they are operating a legitimate and successful business now. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Brillig
Maybe the reason was they were tired of waiting for Paragon to develop a second game?More likely they couldn't afford to carry the long term expense of an unpublished game AND CoH - especially if they knew they were in the red months before the IR report went public (as Brillig has argued before in another thread).Quote:Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
It would've helped if they didn't cancel the last project.
That said, there were other problems in the company's operations that put NCsoft in the red. Dropping Paragon Studios would've been the quickest way to plug the hole and draw attention away from other bad business decisions. Again, the source links in post #7 and elsewhere discuss how NCsoft lost millions prior to shutting down CoH in 2012.
7 titles cancelled in 5 years is going to take its toll... -
Quote:That's fine. So two things to keep in mind:Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Errrm, I am trying to find out where you are getting the "Billions of dollars though". Billions of Won, yes, but that does not equal billions of Dollars though.
Yes, their *net profit* decreased, (which is what the article was referring to in the image there), but it increased in 2007, down in 2008, increased by almost 400% in 2009, dropped by about $10million in 2010, dropped by a further $50mill in 2011 (and yet it is *Still* earning about $115mill profit for the financial year). But it *never* hit negative for *any* single quarter that I have listed so far
So far for Q1 2012, it was a large drop, as in *really* large, yet Q2 of 2012 was at not of large drop as expected.
So, where did the *billions of dollars* come from? Or are just thinking that because profits *drop* for any reason whatsoever, that is always the head honcho to blame?
No, but if you are calling me "negative" for trying to get things correct, to prevent facts from being blown out of proportion (sorry, I cannot try to change opinions no matter how much I try), then yes, I am on their payroll....
I wish.
I currently earn £55/week as a full time carer. Hell, I could go out and "actively look for work" and get paid more, but instead I have decided to stay at home and actually *save* my government money. I don't have much of a social life, if any. And neither does my partner (who I care for).
Hell, if we *really* want everything to be blown out of proportion then why don't you just go and say that NCsoft drinks the blood of babies, and kicks a puppy everytime someone cries.
That would make about as much sense as you sometimes.
1) Read the hyperlinks I posted before asking me to name my source (it's there, you just didn't read it).
2) If you have a better approach for taking action, then please by all means share it.
It's no good having naysayers **** all over the facts just because they don't like the interpretation. Either put up your own hyperlinks full of facts, shut up because you don't have any or get out of the way and let others do what they can to save the game.
We need to work together and make a new plan of action. And we can't do that if folks insist on debating the interpretation without actually reading the source material provided (and the Korean Times article especially gives some great background about Mr. Kim's financial conflicts of interest).
I'm really not making this up. The hyperlinked sources in post #7 speak for themselves. -
Quote:Oh honey, we don't use tin foil anymore! We wear flower pots now... (it's more green, lol)Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
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Quote:Originally Posted by Brillig
It's really unsporting of you to bring actual facts into a rant thread...
Heh.Quote:Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Weeeeeeeel, he did kinda ask for them to be posted...
Yeah, i know, shall i get back into the corner and let the squabbling continue until it hits a point of "he said/She said", finger and hair pulling?Quote:Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Ok, going from just the Q4 PDF of each year. I am using the same sources as some people (not necessarily you, but others) have used as an argument for how the loss of $7million (ish) for Q2.
- Auto Assault: NCsoft were profitable through all of 2007
- Dungeon runners: NCsoft were profitable all through 2009
- Dragonica: Still up and running at least in the western market (Dragonica for EU, Dragon Saga for US). You are correct in that NCsoft closed down their Korean server for it, but it is back up under Gravity Corporation. Make of that what you will.
- Exteel: NCsoft were profitable all though 2010
- Point Blank: NCsoft closed the Korean server for it (the region they held the license for). Once again, NCsoft were profitable all through 2011 (although it was an up and down year for them).
- Tabula Rasa: NCsoft were profitable through all of 2008 (actually more so at the end of the year, than the previous 2 quarters).
They lost *billions of dollars*?
Can you please site your sources for this.
In *every single quarter* from at least 2007 up till Q1 of 2012, they have made a profit.
So, how can they *lose* billions of dollars?
Speaking of which, both of you have gone out of your way to spew frothy negativity in defense of NCsoft across various threads... Are you being paid to do so or do you answer to NCsoft directly? -
Quote:Actually, it's covered in full detail in the Korean Times article (post #7, hyperlink on point 5). Silly of me to think the same old forum trolls would actually bother to read...Originally Posted by Brillig
It's really unsporting of you to bring actual facts into a rant thread...
Heh. -
Quote:NCsoft was in the red last quarter. That fact alone is enough to cripple the stock price and the company no matter how well the stock performed in years past. It's worth researching prior IR reports to see if NCsoft was also in the red when it cancelled the other 6 titles prior to canceling CoH this year.Originally Posted by Father Xmas
But still up 320% over 5 years and 150% in the last 3 years. True it's down about 40% from it's all time and yearly high but that's more of the result of a much needed correction from an overenthusiastic run up in price.
In comparison EA is down 50% over it's yearly high and down over 75% over 5 years. Activition Blizzard is down over 20% this year and around down 40% over 5 years.
Regardless, let the media ask NCsoft why they've dropped 7 titles in 5 years, lost billions of dollars but Mr. Kim and his wife Dr. Yoon still keep making millions of personal dollars while they're on the executive board (even when the company is in the red). That smacks of insider trading (amongst other things) but again let's have the media ask those questions for us... -
Thanks Robey!
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Thanks Robey. I'm not registered at the Titan Network, and its not something I can do easily over a cell phone during the work day right now but feel free to repost my original action item and supporting post if you think it will help.
Gangrel: Hyperlink for point #5 is now fixed. -
Quote:You're wrong - it's not personal slander, it's a performance assessment of the leadership at the top and how they're doing their job - and the fact of the matter is they're doing *very* poorly...Originally Posted by Kallandra
Unless you have irrefutable proof that you could supply to these people, I'd suggest not doing this.
You can't just write to people with here say and rumour with regards to NCSoft employees, you would have to have 100% proof that you could cite at a moments notice to support your claims. The word 'slander' springs to mind.
Need facts? Look no further than:
1) Stock History - NCsoft's stock value has TANKED...
-- Source, Bloomberg Market Snapshot: http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/036570:KS
-- Source, Bloomberg Market History Graph: http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/036570:KS/chart
-- Source, Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/finance/stock...mbol=036570.KS
2) NCsoft's Earnings Release Data...
-- Source, NCsoft IR: http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx
3) NCsoft's public responses ignoring efforts/requests to save a profitable game
-- Source (pick any official NCsoft post you like off the main CoH page)
4) Raise awareness that 7 NCsoft games have been closed in the last five years (all under Mr. Kim's leadership)
-- Source, Wikipedia NCsoft "Games section (sub-section, End of Life/Closed Games) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCsoft
5) Raise concerns regarding "cronyism" at the top - including the fact that NCsoft's CEO and standing Board Member, Mr. Taek-Jin Kim, has been running the company with his wife, Dr. Song-Yee Yoon, who is also a senior NCsoft executive.
-- Source, Korean Times: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...tegoryCode=123
6) Raise awareness of NCsoft's various "scandals" in the past 5 years alone (all under Mr. Kim's leadership)
-- Source, Wikipedia - NCsoft "Controversies" section (as a starting point for further research): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCsoft
There is MORE than enough concrete proof to point fingers at NCsoft's executive leadership (starting with Mr. Taek-Jin Kim and his wife, Dr. Song-Yee Yoon) and assert that they've made an absolute ****-up of NCsoft's global operations, business models, and shareholder's investments. You can't blame Richard Garriot, Paragon Studios or anyone else for bad management that began with Mr. Taek-Jin Kim and Dr. Yoon.
The IMPORTANT thing to do now is get these talking points out to the media and let them ask the hard questions... One way or another, more negative press like this will affect positive changes with NCsoft's board as well as with it's executive leadership much sooner than later (because what's the alternative? We just stand by, accept defeat and do nothing...? No, we must push on and keep fighting the good fight).
Business is business, after all... -
You want a call to action? Here's your call to action:
Start sending emails to NCsoft's shareholders (including Nexon), to the media (including the Wall Street Journal), and to anyone else in Korea that will listen. List out the names of the NCsoft executives that are jeopardizing the company's ability to be profitable - and make it very clear that these individuals singlehandedly SANK NCsoft's profits and put the company's bottom line at risk BEFORE they pulled the plug on a profitable game like City of Heroes -- thereby making an already bad situation even worse. To leave the current executive leadership in charge means further jeopardizing the shareholder's investments and the company's ability to remain profitable. GET RID OF THEM!
Make your letters short, sweet and to the point! Not sure who to name? Look here: http://investing.businessweek.com/re...cker=036570:KS
It's time to stop talking to BAD MANAGEMENT that's struggling to save face and start talking to the other players in the industry who can implement *positive* changes to remove bad management... Maybe then we'll get someone at the top who will listen and reconsider our stance on City of Heroes and Paragon Studios. We CANNOT be nice anymore! So let's take some names and demand their removal...
Sun Tzu wouldn't expect anything less and neither should we! -
I'd love it if someone hit the I24 switch on live...