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afocks

By afocks,
Posted on: 2012-09-04 19:21 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

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Originally Posted by Pitho View Post
When I attempted to play CO a while ago, the energy builder powers were toggles. Although, it took a while for me to figure out they were toggles, and I kept mashing the button for it. No idea if they changed that.
There's an option to make the energy builders behave like toggles, or not, based on your preference. I don't remember if that was/is the default setting or not, but it probably should be.

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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

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Originally Posted by Buckshot_Billy View Post
Granted, I was later told by someone in /tell that it's best to just level up by myself and group later...meh.
WHY!? For what end-game? For running dungeons over and over for valor... I mean, uhm... oh whatever. The enjoyment is GETTING to cap. Once there, in CoX or any other game, I'm done. CoX was a little better in that the story actually progressed with the iTrials. However even they were boring and repetitive after a few runs. It's the nature of the beast. The introduction of Incarnate Arcs was genius!

@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
CO is less complicated than it was at launch, but it's still needlessly complex.

I'm a character builder -- most of the joy of these games, to me, comes in designing a unique character and seeing it develop to its ultimate potential. I've made two characters that I deleted at level 6, and two more that I've continued with (a level 10 Mind and a level 8 Glacier). I've also been researching the freeform method, thinking that I might buy one of those slots. As far as I can tell so far, the CO character system is loaded with cruft and unnecessary complications while the game itself is childishly arcade-like.

You pick one to three Super Stats (SS), but you have to keep some of your other stats up, because they affect your combat and recovery. Some of the powers you choose are linked to stats so those stats must be kept high. You select powers, preferably aligned with your SS. Then you select training, specialization, and equipment; all of which just adds to your stats, and you're almost always going to want it to add to your SS.

After doing all of that, you mash one button until you get enough energy to mash your spike damage power. Repeat. Sometimes, you must block.

Champions Online has a character system that is much more complex than CoX, for gameplay that is barely one step above Donkey Kong.

The complexity of that character building appeals to me, but I want choices that matter and I need gameplay to require some strategy. In a multi-player game I want team play to require some tactical choices. I raged about the incarnate system in CoX because it removed team tactics and character roles; CO doesn't have them at all, from level 1 up.
This is an excellent summation.

Lord, do I ever hate blocking.

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The artistic design is another discussion. Let's just say that ADHD poodles should not be given access to 3D design tools. I could overlook the look, however, if the game underneath appealed to me.
Sadly, there's no toggle power in CO for "turn off the fugly."

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Not so much toggles I think as autofire powers, and I think it was like that from the beginning.

Also: Gigabolt.
Well, they were pretty much autoattacks once I figured that out.

Made me feel annoyed that I had to autoattack a lot to use real powers.

Culex's resistance guide

 

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Originally Posted by Buckshot_Billy View Post
p.s. Blocking is the most unnecessary and dull game mechanic I've ever had the displeasure of having a run in with.
From a gameplay perspective, its a matter of personal preference as to whether you like the idea of blocking or not. But from a design perspective, I think it was one of the best design decisions they made. For one thing, it turned mez from a rather binary un-gameplay mechanic here into a meta-game effect there. And it softened the difficulty level of critters substantially, giving the developers more freedom in that area. The irony is that with everyone basically having scrapper defenses, that latitude was less necessary. But in CoH, where Blasters aren't given defenses, it would have been a very interesting way to give them defense without defense.

[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
But in CoH, where Blasters aren't given defenses, it would have been a very interesting way to give them defense without defense.
This has been my feeling on the issue.

The thing is, one of the few ways to build an effective tank in the CO system as of the last time I played (about when specializations were rolled out to about the roll out of the power armor tank AT) was to just hold block with some way of generating threat while doing so. (I have a tank that works that way, and while I did occasionally struggle to hold threat, I really never was at risk of death.)

...Meh. In general, there was just a huge gap between optimal and non-optimal builds. They were addressing it, but even the ways they were addressing it were frankly stupid; there was at that point (unsure if it's been either altered or officially acknowledge) an un-printed damage bonus that Archetypes got which freeforms did not. Several players demonstrated this over the course of a few weeks, but it wasn't acknowledged by the developers (in that period).

 

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I have a lifetime account in Champions. My time in CO was great for the first year, but I got tired of grinding for parts (oy, the old crafting system... unique travel powers...).

CO completely dumped the crafting system (yeah! wait.... I hadn't finished those action figures... BLARGH!). There are skill points to spend where there wasn't even a skill system before.

I was a bit overwhelmed so I decided to put it off to the side as Issue 24 approached. Now, I'll have time to try it (same global if anyone wants to team some time).

Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.

 

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I played CO a long time ago. Not during beta, but shortly after release. At least back then, it seemed like the mechanics of powersets were being changed dramatically every week. It also felt like I was still playing a game in its beta stage, as chat, teaming, and a lot of general UI stuff was fairly broken. That said, I found the art design OK and actually preferred the combat mechanic to CoX as it felt more spontaneous and kinetic.

I'd be willing to give CO a shot again, but I admit I'm kind of wary about rejoining due to the way development seemed to be last time I played. I had a less negative impression of the game than many others did at the time, though, so maybe I'd be OK. I do wonder if I'd be able to figure how to even set up a character now, though. The mechanics of building up a character, between power selection, how those powers interacted, how they interacted with stats, and then with gear as well, made for a rather complicated process.

 

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Originally Posted by Buckshot_Billy View Post
I hope you folks find a game to inject yourselves into and I especially hope that the community can find a welcoming or familiar place to shift a majority of itself to, but this one just will never be it for me.
Actually, the first thing I did was join a channel called "CoX," which had a lot of pretty active and very friendly people in it. Granted, I didn't go to Champions Online for the teaming, but I found the people in that channel to be awesome just the same. If you decide to give it another shot, I'd start there.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
From a gameplay perspective, its a matter of personal preference as to whether you like the idea of blocking or not. But from a design perspective, I think it was one of the best design decisions they made. For one thing, it turned mez from a rather binary un-gameplay mechanic here into a meta-game effect there. And it softened the difficulty level of critters substantially, giving the developers more freedom in that area.
I hate blocking because it rarely seems to work properly even in single-player games. In MMOs with a bit of lag and a soupcon of latency, they kill. So for me, CO's blocking actually *increased* my level of difficulty.

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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I downloaded it off Steam and have played about for a few hours, got a Marksman to level 10.

  1. The game is action-y, my marksman is not. I'm level 10 and have 3 attacks, and only one of those is a non-pointy arrow. At this point on a Corruptor in CoH I'd have arrows that entangle, spread sticky glue about, freeze people in place, set people on fire, blind people and shoot them.
  2. You died! That enemy you were defeated by magically respawns to full health. Even though you got them down to a sliver of health last time.
  3. I found the UI very hard to follow.
  4. An event mission was removed from my log due to changes in it and now the person who gave me that mission won't give it again, even after I deleted the items I had left over from my previous attempt at it.
  5. It's a comic book MMO, not a superhero world MMO. It feels very artificial and cobbled together because 'comic books have x'. This
  6. I take another character out of tutorial and it's the exact same mission again, and the missions are much more finnicky and annoying than in CoH.
Gonna use a very cheap retail box code to trial gold for 30 days, but I can't see myself sticking with it.

 

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Originally Posted by Zortel View Post

[*]You died! That enemy you were defeated by magically respawns to full health. Even though you got them down to a sliver of health last time.
I totally forgot about that! Yeah, the game has the single worst game mechanic ever created: open world quests. Stand in line to kill something and instant re-spawns and health re-fills. I wouldn't be surprised that adding those to CoH is what kept people away.

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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Thank you for the invite.

I purchased the lifetime subscription when the game was released. However I don't play the game anymore. The animations are too ... annoying. The obvious parallelism with CoH was slightly off putting.

HOWEVER, I most likely will be reinstalling and checking it out to get my Super Hero fix.

CatMan - some form on every server

Always here, there, and there again.

 

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
I totally forgot about that! Yeah, the game has the single worst game mechanic ever created: open world quests. Stand in line to kill something and instant re-spawns and health re-fills. I wouldn't be surprised that adding those to CoH is what kept people away.
oh... scratch my last post. I don't think I will be re-installing. I hated it when NPCs respawn on top of you and the inclusion of this in CoH/V was also off-putting - definitely kept me from playing as often as I might have and had it been live back in 2004 I might not have continued playing then.

Thanks for reminding me of this failure mechanic.

CatMan - some form on every server

Always here, there, and there again.

 

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The thing about enemies refilling when you die, that's because there are no penalties at all for dying, only bonuses for staying alive, so if the enemies didn't refill then any player would be able to solo any mission in game, including lairs or group mission, just zerging them until the enemies are all defeated

 

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Originally Posted by matixzon View Post
The thing about enemies refilling when you die, that's because there are no penalties at all for dying, only bonuses for staying alive, so if the enemies didn't refill then any player would be able to solo any mission in game, including lairs or group mission, just zerging them until the enemies are all defeated
Not really. CoH/V's death penalty is laughable (it was at launch and is more so even now).
What I am talking about is when you are standing there - dead or alive and a new group appears right on top of you. In CoH/V it was nice to be able to clear out a space where you would have some peace until you jumped into the fray again. The instant health recovery is annoying in CO - in CoH/V it was gradual and took time, just as a player's natural health bar took time to replenish - throw in an NPC buffer and they quickly got back to health.

By the way: you cannot solo and zerg at the same time. Solo means one. Zerging, thank you StarCraft, is overwhelming your enemy with inferior forces.

CatMan - some form on every server

Always here, there, and there again.

 

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Originally Posted by matixzon View Post
The thing about enemies refilling when you die, that's because there are no penalties at all for dying, only bonuses for staying alive, so if the enemies didn't refill then any player would be able to solo any mission in game, including lairs or group mission, just zerging them until the enemies are all defeated
There are not penalties for death in City of Heroes, either, just an experience bonus for staying alive. That doesn't make enemies heal up to full. Not in instances, anyway.

Which, really, is my biggest problem with Champions and why I once said it felt like WoW in tights - it feels like almost all overworld quests, and I hate that. Why is City of Heroes the only MMO out there that makes any real use if instances beyond "special events?"

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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I have less problem with enemies refilling when you die than I have with enemies refilling when you lose aggro. There is no hit and run if you come up against a tough enemy (and the game goes so far as to hit you in the face with that with most super-villain fights by locking you in a room with them).

@Doctor Gemini

Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.

 

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For reasons I can only chalk up to a combination of emotions and wanting to fry freeforms, I went for the pay two months for three months gold option.

  • I don't think I'll ever be able to create a decent male character there. I've always been more demanding of how my male alts look as opposed to my female alts, and having all my males have Bob Parr's face with the only long hair option being 'roadie' isn't cutting it.
  • I re-created my meter maid with a riot shield, only there aren't any police officer costumes nor riot shields so she wound up a martial artist in a blue blouse and skirt. And the martial arts sounds sound like I'm hitting pillows. She's still in the tutorial.
  • I then re-created my golden age heroine, since I like their golden age hairstyles. She feels somewhat crunchy and tanky, which was all well and good...
  • ... right up until I hit the Jack Emmert Special tutorial end boss. I'm a Mary Marvel expy and I got my clock cleaned twice by some joker in a mecha suit? Oh right, my superstrength superconstitution heroine is supposed to block. I feel positively superheroic already. :|

I'll likely give Rose Wonder more of a try later and maybe try my hand at resurrecting the fairy cop on the edge since last I remember the survivalist skills were pretty rad.

... But its not going to be City of Heroes. :/

Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader

 

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As someone who has on occasion ( including within the last 6 months shamefully) actually plays CO, I can tell you the OPs link is to a thread that is a work of pure fiction only possible because the CO forums community was gutted not to long ago with the conversion to PWE.

Within the game itself is a vicious and vocal anti CoH sentiment and anyone coming from our game with love for it in their hearts will not find such an attitude tolerated there. If you do not vocally espouse hatred for CoH and in general act like a degenerate then you will find little fun there.

Currently and for more then a year now CO has been under the plague of the chat ban. A player tool which once served as a tool to help stymie gold sellers, It apparently never occurred to the Devs such a tool could and eventually would be abused to cause grief.

Currently its impossible there to hold any public social events, or even RP in known RP locations because it only takes one person to quickly abuse the mechanic and cause you a 24 hour chat ban that will make ANY form of communication with another player in game impossible. Some of the traditions that CO had handed down from CoH players who turned traitor and went full time champions like costume contest cannot even be held there as within moments of posting a broadcast you will find yourself struck by the silence.

CO could indeed have been a next gen CoH but it wasnt, and will never even be a close second to the memory of what we will have had taken from us too soon.

 

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I appreciate the invite, but I've tried Champions Online. I was a HUGE Champions pen n' paper player from the very first edition up through 4th. That was the first strike against Champions Online - it wasn't Champions. At least back when I tried it, the costume creator just frustrated me. I'm also just not a big fan of the art style. That's definitely a matter of taste, other people I played with loved it. I might occasionally pop in on a free-to-play character, but Champs Online just never did it for me.

Hunter's Forty-Sixth Rule: If your head explodes, you were thinking too much, otherwise you shouldn't worry about the possibility.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Which, really, is my biggest problem with Champions and why I once said it felt like WoW in tights - it feels like almost all overworld quests, and I hate that. Why is City of Heroes the only MMO out there that makes any real use if instances beyond "special events?"
The flipside of that is if the game is focused almost entirely on instances the overworld essentially becomes a cumbersome lobby that's just slowing down your movement from Stage to Stage.

Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

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nosed around a bit as I've found it emotionally difficult to log in any of my real characters the past few days.

last time I played, was able to make a cosmetically quite passable version of the Goat. this time I couldn't- turns out you have to get to level 10 to unlock the bulk of the character creator.

Dumb.

Did the tutorial, which aside from my issues with the art style and the combat was engaging enough. Been running around Millennium City & got the not-Goat to level 8, which has been enough gameplay to remind me of what I didn't like about it the first time around.

As Sam notes, all the outdoor stuff makes the game feel a LOT like WoW in tights. While I always advocated more zone-related activities here, they went too far the other direction. I don't like it when *everything* is an instance, but neither should they be used only for special occasions.

The weird aggro, insta-regen of spawns and relative weakness of your character are also very WoW-like. Combat is an weird mix of annoying mechanics (block? feh) with tedium (basically 'pew pew pew pew' with your 'combo builder', then BOOM with a real attack).

Also, gear. Finished a mission and the contact gave me my choice of BRACERS providing various stat boosts.

WoW....really? =P


Better than DCUO, which I found unplayable, but really derivative and without any particular strengths of its own that I've been able to discern. Yeah I have a sweet tooth for superheroes, but the gameplay is giving me bad flashbacks to my Arms DPS Orc warrior.

The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
\
last time I played, was able to make a cosmetically quite passable version of the Goat. this time I couldn't- turns out you have to get to level 10 to unlock the bulk of the character creator.
Huh? Explain this better so I know what to expect if all efforts to save CoH fail.

 

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Originally Posted by Demetrios Vasilikos View Post
Currently and for more then a year now CO has been under the plague of the chat ban. A player tool which once served as a tool to help stymie gold sellers, It apparently never occurred to the Devs such a tool could and eventually would be abused to cause grief.
When someone first told me about this "feature" I assumed they simply misunderstood. Because no one could possibly be dumb enough to put this sort of feature into the game.

I was wrong.

For those unaware, in CO there's an auto chat banning system where if you are petitioned more than X number of times by other players, the game will auto silence you from chat. I think from *all* chat. For a long time. It was meant to allow players to self-police RMT sellers.

Which in and of itself is prone to abuse, but that abuse can lead to your own account being banned if you do it too much.

And then they went F2P.

Remember all the debates we had here about how important it was to be careful about what free players could do, what premium players (who didn't sub but bought something at least once) could do, and what VIP subs could do? In CO, F2P players can petition towards auto-banning.

The rest is left as an exercise for the reader. PS: I have eight F2P City of Heroes accounts.

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