As I recall, the body sliders in the game granted a good range of control over character shape, too. Including muscle definition, if I'm not mistaken, which might allow Sam to make muscular women, though undoubtedly not without complaint.
I was looking at the costumes available in the store, and in some ways I like their retro-sci-fi space suits better than ours. Indeed, there were a number of things I liked better about their costume back at the start. But as I recall, CoH was stronger when it came to mixing disparate costume pieces and having them work well together visually.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Eh? I already said I thought it was more stylized. I'm not trying to debate you or change your mind, just giving my opinion. The opinion here being that it's not necessarily a bad thing.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
You attempt to deflate the assertion that it looks like a cartoon by stating it looks like a cartoon...?
BUH? |
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| Funny, I actually like Perez Park's look. It looks precisely like a park that hasn't seen maintenance in some time. |
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If computer animation is a cartoon, City of Heroes is inherently a cartoon itself. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
You attempt to deflate the assertion that it looks like a cartoon by stating it looks like a cartoon...?
|
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
In my experience fending off larger groups is doable by most of the defensive passives, even sometimes the offensive passives (my namesake uses the darkness offensive passive and can usually mow down big groups, but it's kinda a knife-edge scenario), but you're going to be spending the bulk of that fight blocking, only releasing block briefly to click heals, active defenses, and big aoe attacks. Blocking is really key to survival in that game, to the point that when I've been playing it a while and come back to CoH I find myself constantly trying to block for a few days.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Brigandine says it gets better with the slotted passives, but back when I was playing being barely able to fend off 2-3 enemies was pretty much the rule with the best exception being Regeneration until it got neutered (I don't recall if it was a direct nerf or a consequence of changes to enemy damage). Invulnerability and... Defiance? were situationally strong but often got easily curb-stomped, Lightning Reflexes was a joke, and Offensive passives were meaningless wastes of time. That was one of the things that majorly put me off the game.
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Yeah, and it's stylized to look like a cartoon. That's what I'm saying.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Eh? I already said I thought it was more stylized. I'm not trying to debate you or change your mind, just giving my opinion. The opinion here being that it's not necessarily a bad thing.
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In any case, as I've already stated I can look past that. It's not a deal breaker for me. All I really care about is being able to play and customize a unique superhero.
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| Maybe it wasn't that one. I don't know. It was one of those random hero zones that hardly anyone uses and isn't even connected to the train. And it looked like what was probably an awesome game world around the time the original Playstation came out. The silliness was only tacked on when I observed the contrast between my character's completely modern and pretty sweet looking costume and his surroundings. |
FWIW, the main thing that annoys (or annoyed, back when I played CO fairly avidly) me about the graphics' style is that all the faces look the same to me. There are a crapton of facial sliders, but somehow they seem ineffective -- like, you have all of these options, but unless your idea of variety is to explore eleventy shades of butt-ugly, you really only have a very limited range of facial-slider options.
That goes double for female faces. Oh, and none of my male characters have eyebrows because the available eyebrows are so ... shall we say fulsome that I can't stand the sight of them. Why you can't opt for painted-on eyebrows instead of distinct meshes is beyond me.
Anyway, that's a lot of ranting about subjective preferences. I've always been a tad amused that CoH, for all of its technical limitations, gives you (or me, at least) more practical variety with facial textures than CO does with all of its fancy sliders.
The cartoony style of the characters is also a constant reminder of the much less serious tone with which the stories are told over there -- which may or may not annoy any of you, but it certainly annoyed me.
That said, CO's environments are much prettier than CoH's, as a rule, and the combat is, I think, rather enjoyable once you get past the fact that most any min-maxed freeform character will play similarly to most any other. Based on what little I've discovered in my most recent foray back into Champions' territory, that problem -- the build variety problem -- may have been fixed, or at least ameliorated. It seems ATs actually have a rather sizable damage bonus relative to freeform characters, too. (Again, that may be good or bad depending on where you're sitting. At first, I was kinda bummed to hear that subscription-only free form builds operate at a penalty relative to free-to-play AT builds, but on second thought, free form characters have so many advantages otherwise that ATs really ought to get something in return.)
A few more helpful threads I've found over there so far:
A Guide to Gear for Returning Players
A Guide to Specialization Trees
Attribute and Passive Scaling Thread
Oh, and from casual testing, it looks like Cryptic fixed Invulnerability so that it uses the same Resistance formula as (most) everything else. There used to be a number of exceptions to their Time-to-Live formula (wherein Resistance gives you a linear bonus to your survival time, rather than an accelerating bonus to proportional damage mitigation, like we have here). Will have to test more to see if there are still exceptions, but so far thumbs up on the (seemingly) increased consistency.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I was dismayed when I learned the crafting system is gone too, and I'm not sure I like the new system even after using it a bit (though I'm still a little hazy on the details).|
Originally Posted by Primantiss
So.. I notice the crafting system is gone? A shame, I actually liked that..
Replaced by these "mods".. I guess I need to combine these mods with gear that has slots or somesuch? When does this gear start dropping? |
Gear with slots turns up relatively early on - I think maybe even in one of the tutorials (the crafting tutorial I'm fairly sure has you add a mod to a slot). But from what I played it's not that common until later on, and earlier gear only seemed to have one type of slot (I think there's 3 types, with associated mod types - and I don't mean the offensive/defensive/utility categories - this confused me when I tried to slot the mods I'd converted from old crafting components and it wouldn't let me in my crappy low level slotted gear). As I say I'm hazy on the details though.
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The lack of "fulsome" eyebrows in CoH has annoyed me for quite some time. Wizards, sages, and old kung fu masters need ridiculous eyebrows - it's a union rule. |
Originally Posted by Obitus
Oh, and none of my male characters have eyebrows because the available eyebrows are so ... shall we say fulsome that I can't stand the sight of them. Why you can't opt for painted-on eyebrows instead of distinct meshes is beyond me.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
Ha, fair enough. Different strokes and all that. I just wish that there were an alternative to Gandalf eyebrows or Uncle-Leo-from-Seinfeld, so-angry-they-look-fake eyebrows. |
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
The lack of "fulsome" eyebrows in CoH has annoyed me for quite some time. Wizards, sages, and old kung fu masters need ridiculous eyebrows - it's a union rule.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I might give CO another look sometime. Depends on whether I can salvage my old characters without too much headache or not. Sounds like there's been a bunch of changes since I last played with any regularity.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
is aopm still outperforming everything?
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For the purposes of this discussion, I believe its fair to say that's not that much different from saying you can get pretty durable being a water blast blaster with tough, weave, and aid self. The analog to the defensive set in CoX is the defensive passive in CO. Yes you can get healing in other sets, but that's also true here: you can get healing in Water Blast and the medicine pool as well.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
The thing about CO's passives is that they are, well, passives - buttons that you press for immediate healing or mitigation or etc are separate. So using a defensive passive is a surefire way to get tougher, and a defensive passive plus some activated defensive powers is even better, but you can be reasonably durable even with an offensive passive and role by adding other defensive powers.
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Quote:
When I was playing more, both Invuln and Force Fields was strong (although FF in particular got hit hard by the post-live nerf bat). For soloing I used to combine them with Sorcery.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Brigandine says it gets better with the slotted passives, but back when I was playing being barely able to fend off 2-3 enemies was pretty much the rule with the best exception being Regeneration until it got neutered (I don't recall if it was a direct nerf or a consequence of changes to enemy damage). Invulnerability and... Defiance? were situationally strong but often got easily curb-stomped, Lightning Reflexes was a joke, and Offensive passives were meaningless wastes of time. That was one of the things that majorly put me off the game.
|
The big problem was being in melee. Critter melee damage was much higher, so if you played a concept melee character you were eating more damage for no gain back then. I don't know if that has been remedied to a sufficient degree yet.
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I don't think that's a very good analogy, because Fighting and Medicine are severely outclassed by non-pool defensive powers. If I were to offer a counter-analogy, I'd say that it's more like the CO "Blaster" has access to full-strength versions of Moment of Glory, Healing Flames, etc, but I don't want to get too bogged down in the analogy. Point is, you can get some pretty excellent defensive powers even without a defensive passive.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
For the purposes of this discussion, I believe its fair to say that's not that much different from saying you can get pretty durable being a water blast blaster with tough, weave, and aid self. The analog to the defensive set in CoX is the defensive passive in CO. Yes you can get healing in other sets, but that's also true here: you can get healing in Water Blast and the medicine pool as well.
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Having a defensive passive on swap is very handy, though.
I'm not disagreeing with what you and Brigandine were saying, I just wanted to add that you can be reasonably survivable in an offensive role too. Offensive passives and roles have gotten A LOT more viable than they were near launch. On my characters with two passives, I usually end up spending most of my time in an offensive role, switching to Hybrid or Tank only for really dangerous fights.
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We'll see. I'm aware offensive passives have gotten much better since launch, but I'm unaware of damage mitigation outside of defensive passives getting materially stronger. If they have, that would be interesting to see.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
I just wanted to add that you can be reasonably survivable in an offensive role too. Offensive passives and roles have gotten A LOT more viable than they were near launch, too.
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offensive passives were ouperomed by other alternatives last time i played.
anyway is there a guide how to link?
I've looked into the character building system some, and it doesn't look as complicated as I remember it. Picking a super stat, a couple of secondary super stats and just rolling with it seems reasonable. I'm guessing I'll have to pick a role that allows for defensive stats since I want something Scrapper-like, and Scrapper defences seem to be passives in Champions.
Also: Healing. People keep saying how important that is, but isn't healing mutually exclusive with something else? Or is this more like, say, Stamina, where everyone pretty much SHOULD take the same power on all characters?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Pretty much every character will want some source of healing, sooner or later, but there are a ton of different healing abilities. Resurgence, Bionic Shielding, Bountiful Chi Resurgence, Conviction, Lifedrain, Empathic Healing, various power advantages and specializations, etc etc. Some characters do fine with just one heal, some use multiple heals, and different healing abilities are good for different things. The Regeneration slotted passive works too, of course, but it's not the only source of healing.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Also: Healing. People keep saying how important that is, but isn't healing mutually exclusive with something else? Or is this more like, say, Stamina, where everyone pretty much SHOULD take the same power on all characters?
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Quote:
CO is less complicated than it was at launch, but it's still needlessly complex.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I've looked into the character building system some, and it doesn't look as complicated as I remember it. Picking a super stat, a couple of secondary super stats and just rolling with it seems reasonable.
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I'm a character builder -- most of the joy of these games, to me, comes in designing a unique character and seeing it develop to its ultimate potential. I've made two characters that I deleted at level 6, and two more that I've continued with (a level 10 Mind and a level 8 Glacier). I've also been researching the freeform method, thinking that I might buy one of those slots. As far as I can tell so far, the CO character system is loaded with cruft and unnecessary complications while the game itself is childishly arcade-like.
You pick one to three Super Stats (SS), but you have to keep some of your other stats up, because they affect your combat and recovery. Some of the powers you choose are linked to stats so those stats must be kept high. You select powers, preferably aligned with your SS. Then you select training, specialization, and equipment; all of which just adds to your stats, and you're almost always going to want it to add to your SS.
After doing all of that, you mash one button until you get enough energy to mash your spike damage power. Repeat. Sometimes, you must block.
Champions Online has a character system that is much more complex than CoX, for gameplay that is barely one step above Donkey Kong.
Maybe gameplay changes at high level; my Mind is specced as a healer, but she can't get a healing power before level 11. Similarly, 'tanks' are useless as tanks until they get access to roles (which I believe is level 20?). I suspect that the core gameplay of CO characters does not exist until higher level. In the early levels all characters play and act the same. Even in the high levels, all characters can assume any role and are self-sufficient, so team-based tactics appears to be completely absent.
The complexity of that character building appeals to me, but I want choices that matter and I need gameplay to require some strategy. In a multi-player game I want team play to require some tactical choices. I raged about the incarnate system in CoX because it removed team tactics and character roles; CO doesn't have them at all, from level 1 up.
I don't think CO is for me. But it's an interesting system that might appeal to character crafters who exclusively solo.
The artistic design is another discussion. Let's just say that ADHD poodles should not be given access to 3D design tools. I could overlook the look, however, if the game underneath appealed to me.
...
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Quote:
FWIW, Specializations and the gear revamp mean that you can get some pretty significant mitigation just from gear bonuses.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
We'll see. I'm aware offensive passives have gotten much better since launch, but I'm unaware of damage mitigation outside of defensive passives getting materially stronger. If they have, that would be interesting to see.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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When I attempted to play CO a while ago, the energy builder powers were toggles. Although, it took a while for me to figure out they were toggles, and I kept mashing the button for it. No idea if they changed that.
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
After doing all of that, you mash one button until you get enough energy to mash your spike damage power. Repeat. Sometimes, you must block.
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Culex's resistance guide
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Healing is different there than here. There you have significant out of combat recovery (health). So you mostly need healing for in-combat health recovery. Regeneration (the passive) does that, but besides that you don't really regenerate in combat like you do here, and its noticeable.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I've looked into the character building system some, and it doesn't look as complicated as I remember it. Picking a super stat, a couple of secondary super stats and just rolling with it seems reasonable. I'm guessing I'll have to pick a role that allows for defensive stats since I want something Scrapper-like, and Scrapper defences seem to be passives in Champions.
Also: Healing. People keep saying how important that is, but isn't healing mutually exclusive with something else? Or is this more like, say, Stamina, where everyone pretty much SHOULD take the same power on all characters? |
Since out of combat health recovery is substantial, you can get away with not having healing if you manage combat well. But if you play in a manner where you are constantly aggroed and thus "in-combat" whether anything is actually shooting at you at that instant or not, having healing becomes important.
I'm not sure if that's been fundamentally modified since the F2P conversion in terms of other build options, but I think that principle is still supposed to play a major factor in CO combat.
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Not so much toggles I think as autofire powers, and I think it was like that from the beginning.|
Originally Posted by Pitho
When I attempted to play CO a while ago, the energy builder powers were toggles. Although, it took a while for me to figure out they were toggles, and I kept mashing the button for it. No idea if they changed that.
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Also: Gigabolt.
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After two days of trying to simply find a group of people to play with that weren't running alert missions to get to the level cap over night (exaggeration, but not by much), I've decided to stop pursuing Champions Online.
I waded through two whole days of solo play (to level 18) hoping the writing would stop being so Saturday morning cartoon childish, but it didn't. The game's combat system is different, but not really any better or worse than CoX for the most part, I find. Gear is 100% necessary to be successful and a very needless addition to the game. The road to level 15 is incredibly boring and dull (I went through four characters trying to find one I liked the best -- you can't go to the desert or Canada until 15 now so it's West Side 'til then) and from the complaints I've been reading the game's scope of content only draws narrower as I move further into the game. I can't necessarily knock it for that because City of Heroes had a big problem there too for a long time, however, the story writing & telling combined with the enemy groups I've faced really made me doubt that more of what is already there would even be the right answer.
After hitting level 18 with my Mind support character, I decided to try and find a group or even another player to team up with. Wasn't happening, didn't happen, and will never happen now since I've given up on the game and it's inhabitants. While there may be players who claim they're welcoming with open arms, I certainly couldn't find them. The few times I had interactions in zone chat I was met with completely unwarranted hostility for even mentioning that I was a refugee from CoX looking for some people to group up with. Granted, I was later told by someone in /tell that it's best to just level up by myself and group later...meh.
I hope you folks find a game to inject yourselves into and I especially hope that the community can find a welcoming or familiar place to shift a majority of itself to, but this one just will never be it for me.
Favorite part of the game: character creator
Biggest disappointment: writing that strives for a campy feeling but shoots right by and into childish
p.s. Blocking is the most unnecessary and dull game mechanic I've ever had the displeasure of having a run in with.
BUH?