So Staff, what do you think
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2012-04-17 09:20 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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That isn't any proof at all. It's one build you made on beta that to my knowledge you didn't even post. It's also nothing more than a pylon time, and you include some but not all incarnate powers. That proves that the exact character you made can get that exact time in those exact circumstances. I'm not impressed. Microcosm has been doing a thorough job of debunking your and everyone else's claims that you've showed that the set is underpowered at all, and you're the only one who even made a cursory effort to provide any evidence whatsoever. So yeah, all the proof I need? Try again.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Staff attack chain thread ----->
All the proof you need. I'm sure the set is somewhere between fine to great for a casual level up set, however for lvl 50 performance the set isn't performing too hot, as it lacks a strong ST power to work in tandem with Sky Splitter for every AT sans Stalkers. |
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Let me ask in the game...|
Originally Posted by Nericus
So how many Gambit clones have been created so far now that staff fighting is out?
 |
[Broadcast] Zombie Man: So, how many Gambit clones have been created so far now that staff fighting is out?
[Broadcast] Gammbut: I haven't seen any.
[Broadcast] Gaembid: who?
[Broadcast] xxGambitxx: I know not, mon cher!
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If I couldnt get bored clicking 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 all day then attack chains might concern me. I am interested in utility and aoe sizes. Without looking at the set in detail I stuck it on a Tank, my second SR tank but this might be handy cos I can do a direct comparison to my other SR tank what is Titan Weapons. So far Ms Gambit III is doing better than some other Ms Gambits.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Curious if anyone has tried building with the various forms in mind.
I'm sure the scaling +rech bonuses would stack nicely with Energy Armor's or make the clicks in Regen come up just a bit faster, huh?
Or what about making a high mitigation Tanker that uses the +End discount stance and picks up more mitigation toggles earlier? I know in the low levels, I tend to look at holding off on some toggles (picking 1 of the basic ones to keep running) or just don't actually use them all until everything's slotted up...it actually makes me want more armor sets that trade endurance efficiency for better mitigation (kind of like Titan Weapons trades endurance efficiency for brokenness).
Not even sure what the little buffs on the finishers do or how they pan out overall in the build (honestly have played with the set very little on beta). I can say I'm probably going to reroll my Staff/WP brute into something else. Nothing seems to take advantage of the forms besides body on WP...I may just stick with her counterpart (who is StJ/Inv brute) and side-roll her as Staff/Inv as, early on, I may be able to run my toggles easier and later, the option to make perma-dull pain painless.
I'm surprised to report that aside from the unforgivably stupid PBAoE animation and the terrible sounds, the set is actually kinda fun. I was not on board with stick waving because it has always seemed boring, but the set flows nicely and looks cool, and things die when I hit them.
I guess if I was a super turbo DPS loon who couldn't sleep at night unless all my characters can kill ten pylons in ten minutes, I might have a different opinion, but seeing as I play this game to have fun then I guess I am safe. Phew!
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I feel ya. I imagine these people sitting in the dark, fighting pylon after pylon, doing hundreds more DPS than me, and hating every second of it, all while I am settling for having fun in a game. I have this theory that the more lathered up you get about things like attack chains and DPS and stuff like that, the less likely you are to actually enjoy the damn game.
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
"settle for 'just for fun' " LOL.
Even after 10 something years of online gaming across genres attitudes like this still crack me up. |
It's not a top 5 ST DPS machine!
But it's not the bottom 5 either!
Where it lies in there, haven't seen any deffinant answers other than "It's not top 5 so it sucks" from people. 
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The BrandX Collection
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Originally Posted by BrandX
It's not a top 5 ST DPS machine!
But it's not the bottom 5 either! Where it lies in there, haven't seen any deffinant answers other than "It's not top 5 so it sucks" from people. |
My question is, who really wants ST DPS?
AOE is where this game is at people, always has been, always will be.
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I think this report will be a waste of everybody's time
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I eagerly await this report... I hope that it remains highly objective.
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Average ST excellent AOE is where the set is and that is smack dab in the middle of the fun zone for me.
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Originally Posted by Haetron
My question is, who really wants ST DPS?
AOE is where this game is at people, always has been, always will be. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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I do! But just enough that when built for it, I can solo AVs! But then, I like how that makes the toon feel to be on par with solo title comic book heroes.
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Originally Posted by Haetron
My question is, who really wants ST DPS?
AOE is where this game is at people, always has been, always will be. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Is it possible to describe a sphere to one-dimensional beings?
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No one has asked for it.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
It's one build you made on beta that to my knowledge you didn't even post.
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| It's also nothing more than a pylon time, and you include some but not all incarnate powers. |
My character had t4 alpha, interface, and destiny. Judgment and Lore are bugged on beta, you can't convert threads to iXP for those slots, however that really doesn't matter because Lore is not an accepted incarnate power used in pylon tests and neither is Judgment to a lesser extent.
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| That proves that the exact character you made can get that exact time in those exact circumstances. |
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| I'm not impressed. Microcosm has been doing a thorough job of debunking your and everyone else's claims that you've showed that the set is underpowered at all, and you're the only one who even made a cursory effort to provide any evidence whatsoever. So yeah, all the proof I need? Try again. |
I'm the only person who has put out dps times so far, it's all we have right now, I am well aware of what only a single sample size means. However it's all we have right now. If you want to be helpful, CONTRIBUTE, rather than dismissing the only solid data that has been posted so far. Next time I just won't give anyone a hint of what a set is capable of and the next set can go live in a completely untested and potentially worse state than staff.
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Sorry for jumping on you like that, I've just been annoyed by the fact that everyone has taken your brute pylon time as incontrovertible evidence that the set is completely horrible in all ways. As you yourself would no doubt say, there is more to life than ST DPS. Somehow the fact that staff's AOE is actually quite excellent is being completely ignored in the stampede of negativity. Microcosm's point that 228 DPS isn't even that bad has been ignored even more totally than that. Some might say that those perpetuating this specious argument are simply ignorant but I suspect some of them know better and are fishing for mass anti-staff sentiment and ensuing buffs. What a pylon time does not answer at all is whether the set is good on the whole. Nevertheless, your pylon time is being used to argue precisely that.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
I'm the only person who has put out dps times so far, it's all we have right now, I am well aware of what only a single sample size means. However it's all we have right now. If you want to be helpful, CONTRIBUTE, rather than dismissing the only solid data that has been posted so far. Next time I just won't give anyone a hint of what a set is capable of and the next set can go live in a completely untested and potentially worse state than staff.
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Is it high rank at AOE?
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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Those who say 228 is bad I think are looking for every new set to move into the top 5 position.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Sorry for jumping on you like that, I've just been annoyed by the fact that everyone has taken your brute pylon time as incontrovertible evidence that the set is completely horrible in all ways. As you yourself would no doubt say, there is more to life than ST DPS. Somehow the fact that staff's AOE is actually quite excellent is being completely ignored in the stampede of negativity. Microcosm's point that 228 DPS isn't even that bad has been ignored even more totally than that. Some might say that those perpetuating this specious argument are simply ignorant but I suspect some of them know better and are fishing for mass anti-staff sentiment and ensuing buffs. What a pylon time does not answer at all is whether the set is good on the whole. Nevertheless, your pylon time is being used to argue precisely that.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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It should also be taken into consideration who is saying this stuff. Seriously, I played the set from 1-34 bump to 38 played to 45 and bumped to 50. There is nothing wring with this set. I waltzed through DA street sweeping to test solo ixp rates. With only alpha (I ran agility with /EA) I was ripping through everything in my path. |
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Sorry for jumping on you like that, I've just been annoyed by the fact that everyone has taken your brute pylon time as incontrovertible evidence that the set is completely horrible in all ways. As you yourself would no doubt say, there is more to life than ST DPS. Somehow the fact that staff's AOE is actually quite excellent is being completely ignored in the stampede of negativity. Microcosm's point that 228 DPS isn't even that bad has been ignored even more totally than that. Some might say that those perpetuating this specious argument are simply ignorant but I suspect some of them know better and are fishing for mass anti-staff sentiment and ensuing buffs. What a pylon time does not answer at all is whether the set is good on the whole. Nevertheless, your pylon time is being used to argue precisely that.
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As I said on the scrapper boards, every time a new set is released we go through this mess. Most of us old players can do a build w/o mids. However I am never willing to judge what a set can do till it is released in mids and I can min/max my build through that.
I think those who are talking about how bad it is complain about almost everything any way, and are jumping the gun a bit. Tomorrow if I can dig up my stop watch I will run a pylon with my staff/e scrapper. Someone else will have to do the dps math for me though.
As for the versatility, I found no real reason to run anything other than form of the body in the end game. I brought this up several times in the feed back thread, but no one seemed to care. I will also admit that I was playing a secondary that made the +rech form redundant in most cases.
There is also more to consider than SM on it's own also. The secondary it is combined with is also going to play into how well it performs. I personally would not run it with DA, but that is because DA's such an end hog that actually having to level it may make me want to hang myself.
I think we are going to see some really cool things from staff when combined with SR, EleA, EA, and Fire.
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Hey, Z, quick question to you (and due to the public nature of this medium, everyone else) - why isn't Willpower listed as a complimentary set? |
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I think we are going to see some really cool things from staff when combined with SR, EleA, EA, and Fire.
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I am genuinely curious, as that's what I've teamed SF with on my Stalker, but am only level 7 so although I've thoroughly enjoyed it, and haven't come close to death, still don't have a very clear idea how well it will perform in terms of survivability or damage output once I get to 50 and slot him with IOs (not the super expensive ones - just run of the mill IOs).
And before the influx of 'why didn't you go with Ice?', it may sound petty, but I hate the look of the set. I'm not a min/maxer, even though the above question suggests I am. If I can't stand looking at a set, I don't see how I could play the character for 50 levels
Quick question - is Mercurial Blow (I think that's the name?) worth taking on a non-Tanker?
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
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It has a higher damage per cast cycle than Precise Strike, and therefore is useful early on. You can also use it to fill out attack chains and get the form bonuses faster.
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
Quick question - is Mercurial Blow (I think that's the name?) worth taking on a non-Tanker?
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By no means was I trying to be any type of elitist in my comments. I just gave my opinion of the powerset in comparison to what else is available. I realize it's the new shiny and you're breakdancing with a stick so it's fun, but that doesn't change the fact it's not top tier. A lot of us have been playing this game for long enough to know how this whole thing works so don't act like I'm being ridiculous. I've already rolled up a staff brute and stalker and I've been enjoying it despite knowing that it more than likely won't be an "OMG!!" character. I've already got my crab for that sorta thing.|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
"settle for 'just for fun' " LOL.
Even after 10 something years of online gaming across genres attitudes like this still crack me up. |
Please don't mistake my honest opinion as any form of attack against you and your staff wielders you've been anxiously awaiting.
Currently on Virtue:
Jinrazuo - Crab Spider
RWZ All-Pylon Solo Run
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Single target does seem to be less crunchy than Street Justice, but sewers were clearing at an incredible rate. At times my poor Elec stalker couldn't keep up. I also got a Staff/WP brute to 14, and I'm seeing a lot of potential in her. I'll see how things go once I get into the 30s.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I eagerly await this report... I hope that it remains highly objective.
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In other news, I'm not wearing any pants.
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In the same way we can talk about arbitrary higher dimension, yes, a one-dimensional being could conceive of the properties of a sphere.
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Originally Posted by Fugacity
Is it possible to describe a sphere to one-dimensional beings?
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Under construction
I played with the set a bit when it was on the Beta server and had fun with it. I have to say having played it for 20 levels so far, it remains fun. And in a group of pure Staff fighters, groups die to the area onslaught.
I keep wishing however for something like Against All Odd or Soul Drain. But that would be silly gross, wouldn't it? 
Under construction
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Win.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Let me ask in the game...
[Broadcast] Zombie Man: So, how many Gambit clones have been created so far now that staff fighting is out? [Broadcast] Gammbut: I haven't seen any. [Broadcast] Gaembid: who? [Broadcast] xxGambitxx: I know not, mon cher! |
Also, I think the last few powers are misnamed. They should be:
break-it-down
STABBIN-YER-TOESIES
Corner Pocket
and
We stole this from Titan Weapons
Even after 10 something years of online gaming across genres attitudes like this still crack me up.
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