So Staff, what do you think
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2012-04-17 09:20 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I thought this too. But I think I just wanted the extra range for the extra range, not sure if it's balanced for it or not. |
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
As far as AoE goes, I just feel that EotS should have a 15' radius. It's already a set that has extended range, it wouldn't be too far fetched that it's aoe had comparable radius to FS and WS.
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*pictures that for a moment*|
Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
Sounds like I'm banging a trash can inside a giant whale.
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How is that bad again? Also, with that in mind, could I trouble the Dev Team for a Harpoon? I'd pay good money to RP as some kind of Ahab clone on virtue. Standing under Atlas going on long winded diatribes about how kids these days do not appreciate backstory/period research and whale biology.
......brb rolling that up.
"And I swear to effing god, that community is .01% nethergoat-level smart and 99.99% completely fascinating varieties of turd-licking idiots" -Talen Lee
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Street Justice had a huge following for years too.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Good performance is not really an opinion. It either works well or it doesn't.
Having said that I haven't played staff (No intention of either) but it sounds very middle of the road. I have noticed the sets that have a large following (Staff/ Dual Pistols/ Beast Mastery) tend to have flashy animations and below par damage, and the sets I didn't epect arriving (TW/ Street Justice) to have good damage. So they obviously pick an audience when they design a set. |
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
No recharge bonus built in. I am a +rech ho. All the sets I named have +rech built into the set. I think the Staff is going to function great with Nin also.
I agree about Ice. It needs and FX update in a very very bad way. I hope some of what we see on the creatures in DA make it into a new look for ice armor. |
I've got my staff scrapper up into his mid 20s now, and to me, the set is starting to feel like another dual pistols.
Good concept
Awesome animations
Mediocre performance
It's not bad, it's just not all that good either. I may try re-rolling a staff stalker, since general consensus seems to be that it shines a bit more there.
It could use a damage increase. For 800 points, it should be better than average. It could use a small damage increase, but more importantly, and please, for the love of god...
Will someone fix the damage delay on Assassin's Staff?!?!
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I don't remember sticking FA in there, but if I did it was because of the damage aura and burn. I tested Staff/FA to 24 in beta and hated it. It is the only scrapper secondary that I have never played to 50.
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Originally Posted by Reiska
Fiery Aura has a recharge bonus built in?
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Originally Posted by firespray
I've got my staff scrapper up into his mid 20s now, and to me, the set is starting to feel like another dual pistols.
Good concept Awesome animations Mediocre performance It's not bad, it's just not all that good either. I may try re-rolling a staff stalker, since general consensus seems to be that it shines a bit more there. |
This is odd. I hit 22 last night and am increasingly impressed with the set. Once I slotted with SOs (my habit is to not bother with enhancements until 22) I largely started moving from group to group as quickly as I could, both solo and in groups, and had no problem. At one point I charged into a group of 8 Tsoo and had no problem putting down the entire group. Same result last night charging into a somewhat smaller group of 6 Freakshow.
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Then over time the average has to increase as they add new sets. Surely you can see the problem with this?
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Originally Posted by Synesence
It could use a damage increase. For 800 points, it should be better than average.
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I think they did a great job with Staff - it doesn't seem to rely on accuracy to make combo's work (as in DB) - it does good AoE damage (which seemed lacking in StJ) - and it's not slower then molases (TW). I've been having a lot of fun with a Staff/Regin Scrapper (which is the point right?)
As you were.
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If frogs had wings they wouldn't bumb their **** every time they jumped.
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For 800 points, you get some good survival options other sets lack.|
Originally Posted by Synesence
It could use a damage increase. For 800 points, it should be better than average. It could use a small damage increase, but more importantly, and please, for the love of god...
Will someone fix the damage delay on Assassin's Staff?!?! |
But yes! Fix the damage delay on AS!
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Just because something is pay-for doesn't automatically mean it should be stronger. That just creates pay-to-win.
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Originally Posted by Synesence
It could use a damage increase. For 800 points, it should be better than average. It could use a small damage increase, but more importantly, and please, for the love of god...
Will someone fix the damage delay on Assassin's Staff?!?! |
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Let me take that back and say that maybe just one or 2 attacks can get a wee damage increase, specifically that Tier 3 attack. Maybe Eye of the Storm as well. Just a wee bit...Just a wee...|
Originally Posted by Reiska
Just because something is pay-for doesn't automatically mean it should be stronger. That just creates pay-to-win.
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But only after someone takes care of that damn damage delay! That is going to completely nullify the Stalker ATO proc!
I liked it on Beta, I like it Live. My and two of my compadres are enjoying it; we're trying it out across Tank, Stalker, and Brute and leveling up together. We are tweenys currently.
We don't think Staff Scrapper seems very compelling; given the DoT nature of the AoEs and middle of the road ST damage we didn't think the crit factor would be very exciting. The serious number crunchers could convince us otherwise, but that's what it looked like to us.
We settled on Inv/Staff for the Tank, as it seemed like the AoE +DEF would pair up nicely w/ Invincibility and at low levels the END reduction Form is helping pay for the toggles. At higher levels we think the +RECH form will help with reaching perma-Dull Pain earlier, and the +DMG form is available when more damage is needed. So far so good; the toon is very sturdy so far.
The Brute is Staff/Electric. We were originally going to do Staff/Fire but the player changed their mind at the last minute as they wanted a bit more sturdiness in the end game. The damage output is very good, but we expect that to taper off a bit as Brutes do tend to benefit more from Fury in the early game, comparatively. The END discount form has really helped to avoid resting / converting everything to blues.
The Stalker is Staff/Ninjitsu, and is mine. It's kind of a bummer that the Staff Mastery isn't available, but on the other hand having the +DMG form permanently on and ALSO getting a Build Up is more than a consolation prize. Having Assassins Strike really helps the single target damage. I chose Nin to give us a little bit of utility as leveling up three melee toons together we have no guaranteed support. It's not much, but the toolbox options of Nin give us _some_ options, which is better than _no_ options.
Overall the damage is a bit sub par so far compared to the other melee sets we've done this with (StJ, Dark/Dark, and various weapon combos), but not terribly so. It seems to be about the same as when we trio'd Axe, Mace, and Titan Weapon. I expect that as we pick up the higher end ST powers it will improve. However, the survivability is excellent, thanks to the generous +DEF power, and (stalker aside) the flexibility of the Forms offers utility at the expense of some damage, and offer pairing options with various defense sets.
We all like the animations (but, two of us used to play Soul Edge / Caliber and both liked to play Kilik, so there you go). And when all three of us synch up with the PBAoE's its quite spectacular.
The Staff fun quotient is high for us.
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Think of it this way: fury buffs the DoT effects over their full duration. Criticals front-load the damage. If you dislike DoT then clearly staff isn't for you on any AT, but if you're okay with it but would prefer your damage up front then scrappers and stalkers are better than brutes and tankers.
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Originally Posted by KillerShrike
We don't think Staff Scrapper seems very compelling; given the DoT nature of the AoEs and middle of the road ST damage we didn't think the crit factor would be very exciting. The serious number crunchers could convince us otherwise, but that's what it looked like to us.
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If I haven't screwed up the calculations, if you maintain Perfection 3, the single target damage output for Staff shouldn't be but a hair (3%) behind Street Justice.
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Originally Posted by KillerShrike
We don't think Staff Scrapper seems very compelling; given the DoT nature of the AoEs and middle of the road ST damage we didn't think the crit factor would be very exciting. The serious number crunchers could convince us otherwise, but that's what it looked like to us.
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The problem seems to be lack of build up.
the set is balanced around maintaining perfection 3 of the body.
using anything other than perfection of the body is a debuff, and it winds up being a waste of a power, that realy does nothing more than keep you from being debuffed.
This is why it does work for stalkers since they get it for free.
Its a bad set for anyone other than a stalker. Guess the only good news, its not as bad as beast mastery.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Because end redux for Inv and DA is a debuff.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
using anything other than perfection of the body is a debuff, and it winds up being a waste of a power, that realy does nothing more than keep you from being debuffed.
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Because extra recharge for ElA, FA, and Soul is a debuff.
I'll refer any rebuttals to Mr. Jones on my left.
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You might have a point, for leveling below like 30, once you get to the post 30 and especially the 50 game, +rech and +rec flys around like candy.|
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
Because end redux for Inv and DA is a debuff.
Because extra recharge for ElA, FA, and Soul is a debuff. I'll refer any rebuttals to Mr. Jones on my left. |
+dam is very rare.
But lets be honest, damage still overrides nearly every other consideration in the game.
Its not a debuff per se, but it is a debuff in the fact that its not as good as the damage bonus which is what its balanced around, Ill refer all arguments to DP.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Perfection of the Body 3 is a 12.75% damage boost.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
The problem seems to be lack of build up.
the set is balanced around maintaining perfection 3 of the body. using anything other than perfection of the body is a debuff, and it winds up being a waste of a power, that realy does nothing more than keep you from being debuffed. This is why it does work for stalkers since they get it for free. Its a bad set for anyone other than a stalker. Guess the only good news, its not as bad as beast mastery. |
Perfection of the Mind 3 is 15% recharge boost.
Perfection of the Soul 3 is a 33% endurance savings.
Arguably Mind is providing you with a greater damage boost (at the cost of more endurance, though the two are close) is it not?
As goes Soul, the savings equates to four attacks costing the same as 3 attacks. Over time, this is the biggest increase to total damage output assuming you are burning endurance sufficiently with the other forms so as to run out of endurance. Admittedly in many circumstances you don't have the luxury of time.
I dont know. . .it seems to me that people are being overly critical of the set. But I have only played it up through 22 and actual play may reveal some warts I have not yet come to. Still, as I noted upthread, up through 22 it certainly seems to be pretty potent (though some of that of course depends on the defensive set it is paired with).
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This is wrong, because pre ED 1 acc and 5 dam was the standard slotting, and people would jump back to that in a heartbeat is ED was ripped out.
Which means damage is more valuable than any other considerations.
Also Io's are just swimming in +rech +rec, and there just isnt that much +dam, so they higher you get the less valuable the rech or rec becomes.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Even ignoring everything else that could be corrected about your stance, Shubbie, once the Hybrid slot is out the value of Form of the Soul will be blindingly obvious even to SF's most vitriolic haters. I guess we shouldn't let that stop us in the mean time, eh?
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In a pre-ED setting, sure. In a post-ED setting damage may be more important but only until such time as you cap on it. And that only in regards to enhancements, not to non enhancement based methods of improving DPS.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
This is wrong, because pre ED 1 acc and 5 dam was the standard slotting, and people would jump back to that in a heartbeat is ED was ripped out.
Which means damage is more valuable than any other considerations. |
Assuming something boosted damage output by 10% or allowed 10% more attacks, the two are equiavlent in terms of churning out DPS. As noted above, boosting DPS by increasing attacks however also increases endurance burn. But that is only meaningful in that going one way would run you out of endurance and going the other way would not.
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| Also Io's are just swimming in +rech +rec, and there just isnt that much +dam, so they higher you get the less valuable the rech or rec becomes. |
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The problem with using Hybrid, is that it means one has to be incarnate.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Even ignoring everything else that could be corrected about your stance, Shubbie, once the Hybrid slot is out the value of Form of the Soul will be blindingly obvious even to SF's most vitriolic haters. I guess we shouldn't let that stop us in the mean time, eh?
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For those of us who do unlock incarnate content, we may want certain levels of performance outside of Incarnate powers.
I know I want enough ST DPS to take on a non incarnate AV solo, without use of Incarnate abilities.
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Well of course, but I suspect most people who have issues with staff's damage are big on incarnate activities. I know DreadShinobi is. I'm just saying that with Hybrid it becomes impossible to argue that the forms have no value because soul will easily pay for Assault which will give staff fantastic damage that many other sets won't be able to take advantage of due to endurance problems.
Just another day on the forums then.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.