Discussion: Featured Items at the Paragon Market - 2/21/12
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-02-21 10:42 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Obviously you're not in marketing, GF. :P|
Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
If you want to provide more constructive feedback like "this is a great feature that i would rather get free per month as part of my VIP membership than server transfers or 400 points per month" then we're all ears.
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I would rather have maximum choice, personally. For VIP's I'd rather have more free Paragon Points per month, and lower priced or discounted server transfers, alignment changes, rename tokens, etc. Since *most* players are not using server transfers, alignment changes, and rename tokens *every month*, I believe the option to allocate those Paragon Points elsewhere is best.
As for why discounted items for VIP's, it's because with the current costs for those items, even if we get more points we would still often have to choose...do I transfer these two characters this month, OR do I buy the latest costume pack? I don't know the math involved with figuring out how much of a discount or how many additional points, but the point is to be able to use what you would now (transfers + costume pack), except also have the choice.
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And you're not in marketing either. The freebie is an enticement to attract more people to vip status. If you drop the freebie and up the points slightly it's not the same effect.|
Originally Posted by CuppaManga
Obviously you're not in marketing, GF. :P
I would rather have maximum choice, personally. For VIP's I'd rather have more free Paragon Points per month, and lower priced or discounted server transfers, alignment changes, rename tokens, etc. Since *most* players are not using server transfers, alignment changes, and rename tokens *every month*, I believe the option to allocate those Paragon Points elsewhere is best. |
A 'trade-in for something else' button would be great. I'd love to convert all the enhancement boosters I got from all the superpacks I bought.
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I really, really love this idea. More flexibility with these tokens than "server transfer" would be fantastic. I play on Virtue. I will always play on Virtue. Forever. But an Account Service token would be a remarkably nice perk that would keep me paying for a long time.
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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
I wonder if there would be a way to offer a choice, though; replace free server transfers with a more-inclusive "account service" token that could be used for a variety of features that don't really "add" anything to the account or the characters so much as they move existing things around -- server transfers or alignment changes (and maybe character renames could be rolled into it as well). If they were versatile enough, it might even be okay to reduce them to a bi-monthly offering instead of a monthly one.... I bet the vast majority of VIPs would be okay (even thrilled) with seeing their twelve annual server transfers replaced with six annual transfers/side-switches/renames they could pick and choose as they wanted. |
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Thanks for posting your reasoning behind the item and its price.|
Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
And for anyone that never purchased the Going Rogue expansion or let their subscription lapse, we're apparently lower than dirt to charge a $10 "service" fee to change a character's alignment that a non-paying customer spent time on....
C'mon folks. *This is not profiteering on the backs of VIPs. ALL VIP subscribers and any customer that purchased the Going Rogue expansion have a FREE option to EASILY and FREELY change their character's alignment. Come at me with the pitchforks, but really? *Are you not seeing the reasons for introducing this service? Non VIP customers can now change their character's alignment to try the content on the other side without deleting thir character and grinding up to a power level where they were before (if they got up to level 20). * VIP customers get 400 points every month that they can apply to this 800 point service...., or as I pointed out earlier, VIP customers can change their alignment for FREE using the in-game system. |
I'm not specifically talking about EvilGeko's comment (which seems more aimed at selling a way to bypass a game system), but I think perhaps most of the negative feedback here is because we thought this was meant to be a convenience item for subscribers. When it was announced, I viewed it as similar to, but obviously not exactly like, costume and aura unlocks--many subscribers have run that content to death, and now there's a way to bypass it for a fee. I never viewed it as similar to Server Transfers or Rename Tokens (and still don't, for VIPs or people who own GR), so the price seemed really high for such a small convenience.
If the target audience is actually Premiums without GR, then the price makes a lot more sense. They aren't saving 4 hours, they are gaining the ability to do something they can't do at all in-game, which is like Server Transfers and Renames. That being said, I'd probably still price it at 600, as Premiums can buy the full system + more content for only 50% more points, giving them little reason to purchase it if they ever intend to switch sides again. I understand people thinking "great, that means they buy GR", but GR already existed, so I'd expect that these have to actually sell to justify the development time.
I would be happy to have a low cost method of obtaining them myself for the convenience, though, and being able to pick one over a server transfer would be great. I'd never spend my stipend on them, though. Even if you view the points as "free", they can be spent on other, far more valuable items for a subscriber.
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I'd be up for being able to trade them on demand, even if it was 2 transfers for a rename or alignment token.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Meh, don't let em get to you. It is not a feature I would purchase, and it is not one I would want to trade my transfer token for.
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The rename especially, so there is less need of trickery when using 2 ransfers for a rename as it is
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Originally Posted by CuppaManga
Obviously you're not in marketing, GF. :P
I would rather have maximum choice, personally. For VIP's I'd rather have more free Paragon Points per month, and lower priced or discounted server transfers, alignment changes, rename tokens, etc. Since *most* players are not using server transfers, alignment changes, and rename tokens *every month*, I believe the option to allocate those Paragon Points elsewhere is best. As for why discounted items for VIP's, it's because with the current costs for those items, even if we get more points we would still often have to choose...do I transfer these two characters this month, OR do I buy the latest costume pack? I don't know the math involved with figuring out how much of a discount or how many additional points, but the point is to be able to use what you would now (transfers + costume pack), except also have the choice. |
And we already get a discount. it's a floating discount equal to 400 points a month, cumulative if not used
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I would like to be able to sell my server transfers and get Paragon points. Also in the future I would like to only get paragon points per month instead of anything else like server transfers or name changes... etc.
I would love to be able to sell back paragon points for account credit.
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Philosophically, this is just further reinforcement that the marketing group is 100% A-OK with letting players take a shortcut and skip "story content" in exchange for faster rewards.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
i think its more of the pay to save time thing
instead of taking 4 days to rerun tip mishs you prolly done 100 times you can instantly change alignment regardless of which side your currently on edit: the only thing i notice is that the alignment token works regardless if you have the GR alignment system, although it does seem kinda pricey at 800 pts |
I truly anticipate being able to purchase "+5 levels XP Tokens" sometime soon as their method of trying to profit from the popularity of farming in this game. The mechanics are already in place with the bonus Patrol XP tokens.
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Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
I guess it wasn't enough to just give away the Going Rogue Expansion features away as a benefit for VIP subscription and allow just any subscriber to change their alignment for free.
I guess we're also morally bankrupt to give away free server transfers a month for free to VIP subscribers, too. And for anyone that never purchased the Going Rogue expansion or let their subscription lapse, we're apparently lower than dirt to charge a $10 "service" fee to change a character's alignment that a non-paying customer spent time on.... C'mon folks. *This is not profiteering on the backs of VIPs. ALL VIP subscribers and any customer that purchased the Going Rogue expansion have a FREE option to EASILY and FREELY change their character's alignment. Come at me with the pitchforks, but really? *Are you not seeing the reasons for introducing this service? Non VIP customers can now change their character's alignment to try the content on the other side without deleting thir character and grinding up to a power level where they were before (if they got up to level 20). * VIP customers get 400 points every month that they can apply to this 800 point service...., or as I pointed out earlier, VIP customers can change their alignment for FREE using the in-game system. If you want to provide more constructive feedback like "this is a great feature that i would rather get free per month as part of my VIP membership than server transfers or 400 points per month" then we're all ears. |
That's likely the snarkiest post I've ever seen from a redname in my 6 years of playing this game. Congrats?
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This would probably be the only way I'd ever get use out of the current monthly token. I haven't felt a need to transfer characters in years, but renaming or switching sides does occasionally come up.
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Originally Posted by Player D
Maybe a pop up once a month, when we'd normally get our transfer token, giving us an option instead to choose between server transfer. alignment token or rename?
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Just ignore the crazies - they're the morally bankrupt ones |
Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
I guess it wasn't enough to just give away the Going Rogue Expansion features away as a benefit for VIP subscription and allow just any subscriber to change their alignment for free.
I guess we're also morally bankrupt to give away free server transfers a month for free to VIP subscribers, too. And for anyone that never purchased the Going Rogue expansion or let their subscription lapse, we're apparently lower than dirt to charge a $10 "service" fee to change a character's alignment that a non-paying customer spent time on.... C'mon folks. *This is not profiteering on the backs of VIPs. ALL VIP subscribers and any customer that purchased the Going Rogue expansion have a FREE option to EASILY and FREELY change their character's alignment. Come at me with the pitchforks, but really? *Are you not seeing the reasons for introducing this service? Non VIP customers can now change their character's alignment to try the content on the other side without deleting thir character and grinding up to a power level where they were before (if they got up to level 20). * VIP customers get 400 points every month that they can apply to this 800 point service...., or as I pointed out earlier, VIP customers can change their alignment for FREE using the in-game system. If you want to provide more constructive feedback like "this is a great feature that i would rather get free per month as part of my VIP membership than server transfers or 400 points per month" then we're all ears. |
There's a small group who've been anti-Freedom from the start, and they'll look for any chance to attack anything linked to it or the market - the upswing in CoH profits for Q4 2011 seems to suggests that you're getting the majority of things right in the amrket for the majority of the players
My constructive feedback is the same as others have suggested - replace the monthly server transfer token with some kind of monthly VIP account service token that would give us the option of picking a single service from a list, like an alignment switch for one avatar, a server transfer for 1 avatar, or a rename for 1 avatar, and so on.
@Golden Girl
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Yeah ...
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Originally Posted by Crysys
That's likely the snarkiest post I've ever seen from a redname in my 6 years of playing this game. Congrats?
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Sermon
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If it were a "pick any" option rather than hero/villain only, and only 400 points, I might get one or two.|
Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
If you want to provide more constructive feedback like "this is a great feature that i would rather get free per month as part of my VIP membership than server transfers or 400 points per month" then we're all ears.
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Also, it sounds like you're a bit frustrated, which I can understand, but I urge you to consider a couple of things:
1. No one has ever referred to MMO forums as a reliable source for lucidity, let alone wisdom.
2. It may be that some consideration of presentation and framing could let you offer the same things in a way people liked.
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I mentioned it a lot here and on the ustream chats that there are a huge number of options available that I would much rather have than a server transfer. I've used once in 7 years of playing, despite all the free ones I have now.|
Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
If you want to provide more constructive feedback like "this is a great feature that i would rather get free per month as part of my VIP membership than server transfers or 400 points per month" then we're all ears.
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I'd most like to have a choice. Each month have a popup window where you choose what you'd like as your reward for being a VIP. A transfer, a rename, a character slot, alignment change, points (not the full 800 but a reduced rate).
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I would also like to raise a hand in hearty support of more flexible account options for VIPs. Either changing the existing monthly to a generic 'account service token', or giving us a mechanism for converting transfer tokens to other kinds (alignment shift, respec, rename)..
All those services are of roughly equal (numeric) value, but are of drastically different subjective value to different players.
Right now, a bunch of us are using the transfer tokens as ghetto rename tokens. Two transfers for a rename. This is irritating, but it gets the job done. It'd be much nicer to not have to.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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I certainly wasn't expecting to see sister psyche die. Does this mean that she will transfer her mind to aurora just like the praetorian version did and became mother mayhem? Because she really should. It would be a new interesting character to add the signature heroes. Primal earths mother ummmm serenity? Yeah mother serenity sister serenity I dunno (thinks of other names)
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I would like to be able to convert my server transfers to Paragon Points as well. This would also make going VIP more attractive as you would get more points monthly if you don't use the server transfers. You would have more VIPs and VIPs would get more monthly points. Everyone is happy.
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Originally Posted by Mephe
I would like to be able to sell my server transfers and get Paragon points. Also in the future I would like to only get paragon points per month instead of anything else like server transfers or name changes... etc.
I would love to be able to sell back paragon points for account credit. |
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Eh, I like when the devs post something snarky. Sometimes some of these self-entitled, overly negative posters deserve a snarky response. Hell, I've probably deserved some snark for some of the stuff I've posted. :P
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I find myself actually agreeing with golden girl on something for once. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
My constructive feedback is the same as others have suggested - replace the monthly server transfer token with some kind of monthly VIP account service token that would give us the option of picking a single service from a list, like an alignment switch for one avatar, a server transfer for 1 avatar, or a rename for 1 avatar, and so on.
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Its official folks, the world is ending I should not be agreeing with her. Sound the trumpets, time to pack up and leave!
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Count me as a second to this.|
Originally Posted by Edana
Hopefully constructive feedback: It would be a nice perk if these tokens allowed you to change to Rogue or Vigilante if you have access to those alignments.
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I have no problems whatsoever with this market service. I would love to be able to use it to pick from any of the four Primal Earth alignments, though.
Furthermore, to people who feel the need to complain about this... the 800 pound gorilla in the market offers a "Faction Change Service" similar in concept to Alignment Changes.
It costs $35 US.
The same company charges $25 for a single server transfer, $25 to change the race of your character, and $15 to change the way your character looks.
Paragon's service charges are the lowest in the industry in my experience, and I have played a LOT of MMORPGs.
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Having an option for server transfer or alignment transfer / month would be neat.|
Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
I guess it wasn't enough to just give away the Going Rogue Expansion features away as a benefit for VIP subscription and allow just any subscriber to change their alignment for free.
I guess we're also morally bankrupt to give away free server transfers a month for free to VIP subscribers, too. And for anyone that never purchased the Going Rogue expansion or let their subscription lapse, we're apparently lower than dirt to charge a $10 "service" fee to change a character's alignment that a non-paying customer spent time on.... C'mon folks. *This is not profiteering on the backs of VIPs. ALL VIP subscribers and any customer that purchased the Going Rogue expansion have a FREE option to EASILY and FREELY change their character's alignment. Come at me with the pitchforks, but really? *Are you not seeing the reasons for introducing this service? Non VIP customers can now change their character's alignment to try the content on the other side without deleting thir character and grinding up to a power level where they were before (if they got up to level 20). * VIP customers get 400 points every month that they can apply to this 800 point service...., or as I pointed out earlier, VIP customers can change their alignment for FREE using the in-game system. If you want to provide more constructive feedback like "this is a great feature that i would rather get free per month as part of my VIP membership than server transfers or 400 points per month" then we're all ears. |
400 points already seems minor amount considering costs of most items. When you get them on time. I wouldnt want to see that 400 drop lower.
$10 is over priced for what you get (imo, and without pitchforks). I'm okay with that.
It feels to me, that most every item is priced with the idea that 400 points will be subtracted by VIPs, when you can only subtract 400 / month. Are you only anticipating VIPs buy when they have freebie points to use as a discount for item? It also feels to me that the market is trying to get fewer high costs purchases from people instead of encouraging lots of low cost high
volume sales.
This is subjective, but hopefully constructive as well.
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Right, I was sort of looking at that pricing from a VIP standpoint as a convenience purchase to avoid the two days of tips bottleneck to side swap. Priced at 800 it doesn't hold 'much' appeal for those customers.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
This is exactly what the Devs want from this. This was never about offering us something we'd all want to buy 20 of or that the Devs expected to make a ton of money from. This was about a method of control over a feature that the Devs want to make sure is available to us while at the same time remains something that we won't over-use.
Remember if the Devs needed money from alignment switches we would have been paying for them all-along. |
Priced at 800 I can see it holding appeal to non-VIP subscribers who cannot side swap. As such, it appears priced fairly well (although perhaps 400 would be a better price point).
On the 'should they sell this' issue, I have nothing wrong with convenience options being available from the market that can be earned in-game. It's a great option, for those who prefer to pay over grind.
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This sums up how I feel exactly. I don't use server transfers very often and being able to pick another account-related service would be great! (Though I have used the server transfers once, and I appreciate them being given to us as part of being a VIP.) Alignment changes, respecs, or renames in lieu of the server transfer all sound more useful to me. I don't remember exactly what the prices/availability are for some of the other account services, but something along the lines of a server transfer but NOT the server transfer would be awesome.|
Originally Posted by Liquid
I would be happy to have a low cost method of obtaining them myself for the convenience, though, and being able to pick one over a server transfer would be great. I'd never spend my stipend on them, though. Even if you view the points as "free", they can be spent on other, far more valuable items for a subscriber.
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Thanks!
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Umm no. I want my points thank you. I do not want to trade that for the alignment token.
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Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
I guess it wasn't enough to just give away the Going Rogue Expansion features away as a benefit for VIP subscription and allow just any subscriber to change their alignment for free.
I guess we're also morally bankrupt to give away free server transfers a month for free to VIP subscribers, too. And for anyone that never purchased the Going Rogue expansion or let their subscription lapse, we're apparently lower than dirt to charge a $10 "service" fee to change a character's alignment that a non-paying customer spent time on.... C'mon folks. *This is not profiteering on the backs of VIPs. ALL VIP subscribers and any customer that purchased the Going Rogue expansion have a FREE option to EASILY and FREELY change their character's alignment. Come at me with the pitchforks, but really? *Are you not seeing the reasons for introducing this service? Non VIP customers can now change their character's alignment to try the content on the other side without deleting thir character and grinding up to a power level where they were before (if they got up to level 20). * VIP customers get 400 points every month that they can apply to this 800 point service...., or as I pointed out earlier, VIP customers can change their alignment for FREE using the in-game system. If you want to provide more constructive feedback like "this is a great feature that i would rather get free per month as part of my VIP membership than server transfers or 400 points per month" then we're all ears. |
Y'know, it's really more than a little shocking that a relatively innocuous piece of criticism, albeit a bit on the cynical side, like this:
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Is what begets a giant piece of redname snark like this:|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I have to say that the alignment change token rubs me the wrong way too. At some point you have to wonder if there's any limit to what's for sale in the market.
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Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
I guess it wasn't enough to just give away the Going Rogue Expansion features away as a benefit for VIP subscription and allow just any subscriber to change their alignment for free.
I guess we're also morally bankrupt to give away free server transfers a month for free to VIP subscribers, too. And for anyone that never purchased the Going Rogue expansion or let their subscription lapse, we're apparently lower than dirt to charge a $10 "service" fee to change a character's alignment that a non-paying customer spent time on.... C'mon folks. *This is not profiteering on the backs of VIPs. ALL VIP subscribers and any customer that purchased the Going Rogue expansion have a FREE option to EASILY and FREELY change their character's alignment. Come at me with the pitchforks, but really? *Are you not seeing the reasons for introducing this service? Non VIP customers can now change their character's alignment to try the content on the other side without deleting thir character and grinding up to a power level where they were before (if they got up to level 20). * VIP customers get 400 points every month that they can apply to this 800 point service...., or as I pointed out earlier, VIP customers can change their alignment for FREE using the in-game system. If you want to provide more constructive feedback like "this is a great feature that i would rather get free per month as part of my VIP membership than server transfers or 400 points per month" then we're all ears. |
Because from where I'm sitting very little has actually changed on the Paragon Market despite a pretty constant flow of feedback; not all of it positive, but mostly pretty fair, I think. And in my humble opinion, the Market has only gone more and more downhill with things that were guaranteed to stir up controversy, like Super Packs.
Also, if anyone has any pointers on how to constructively phrase "the prices are too damn high", I'm all ears.
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Just keep it below the level of stupidity that calls something added to a superhero video game "morally bankrupt" |
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
So, I'm forced to ask, especially since lots of others in this very thread are eager to meet expectations, and myself as well: What is the exact amount of constructiveness we need in our feedback to get proper dev attention?
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Don't swear, don't be aggressive, don't be sarcastic, and keep everything in perspective.
@Golden Girl
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Also I'd be fine with them allowing us to choose alignment tokens instead of transfers as someone up-thread alluded to.