I'd like to see "tops with skin" tights also have "sleek" versions and options for various patterns (with cut outs where the selected tights option has cut outs) so that I can have a broader palette of color when working with the "with skin" options
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tl;dr version - Copy Astro City. Don't remove anything that's already in the game.
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One thing you've got to realise is that the people that are asking for "more superhero stuff" want the options presented to them to be as plain as possible. They want a canvas that lets them mix/match lots of things onto it. The Circle of Thorns skintight patterns are an example of what the superhero crowd DON'T WANT. While they're fantastically designed...there's only so many things you can mix and match them with. They are far too busy for the people who are asking for "more superhero stuff".|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
A) revamped old school/spandex tights similar to the ones we already have (adding a few details like seams but still mostly plain)
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Now if you offered skin-tight cotton (Watchmen), chainmail (Captain America) or Scales (Aquaman). You would be providing something detailed, but that was plain enough to be utilised with multiple different styles. Furthermore, if you were able to offer a bottom that allowed briefs/legs to have two contrasting styles. (Cottom/chainmail, cotton/scales, chainmail/cotton, etc) that would go even further to add to the plain costume settings.
Astro City's Silver Agent is a REALLY good example of what I'm talking about here:
Alex Ross designed this guy to be the EPITOME of the superhero in the Astro City series he did with the legendary Kurt Busiek. So it stands to reason that he'd be an ideal candidate to look at. Let's see:
-Matt Leather Boots
-Chainmail Briefs on Spandex Pants
-Chainmail Torso/arms/mask.
-Shiney metal chest detail/helmet/bracers
All of those things working in unison to create the perfect looking hero. (None of them currently in game.) The ultimate minuteman. Perhaps the only problem is the black straps, but they're for a gun holster so we'll forgive them.
Now I'm not saying let us make the silver agent in game. What I'm saying is give us the options to create characters similar to him. There is already a texture in game for legs called "bare" i think. (For men.) It's basically just a pair of underpants. Change the skin texture on that piece to spandex and you are going in the right direction. Change the skin texture to an option of ~10 different textures, and the brief itself to ~10 different option, all the while ensuring that the textures are plain to allow for ultimate utility? Boom. You will have nailed it.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
[I]B) loose-fitting tights with folds (like you'd see in Golden/Silver Age comics)
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
C) modern super-hero tights (w/ ribbing, surface texture(s), subdivided surfaces) a la Ultimates 1 or Marvel movies.
Some say that the Defense and Olympian Guard base textures cover this style fairly well. Do you agree? |
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
Feel free to bring up related basic accessories (like masks, etc.)
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E.g.
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Masks, to me, are in need of a major overhaul. Like pointed out by others, they look painted on. I'd love to see masks with a brow-ridge, outlines between the material and the skin, and even actual cowls. Like a cowl that would hang down from the face and attach to the tights.|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
This is the essential take-away, I think. Regardless of what we do, everyone's expressing a similar interest in adding realism/modern textures to these costume pieces. So we could potentially do a few things:
--revamp original tights w/ subtle folds, seams --add new tights w/ heavy folds --add new tights w/ other basic textures (leather, etc.) And as a related side note, I'm seeing plenty of interest in: --masks --tights geo variation (trunks, skirts for men, jodphurs, etc.) (this is where we get into the Golden Age super-hero stuff--probably why the two topics became conflated in the first place). |
But PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE....... ............
Can someone fix the color palettes? White face masks NEED to be the same exact shade of white that is used on the tights. Here is an example:
The image above shows the difference in the color white (but is the same with all lighter colors) between the mask and the white tights. The mask looks painted on. To further show what I mean:
Here I selected bare chest and used a white pattern with the same mask. They both look painted on. Here is makes sense because the both look like someone is wearing body paint. They blend much better than the first image.
I realize that it's not a problem with the color white but rather a problem with the mask pattern.
I'm not saying remove it because everyone should have the option of looking like they painted on their costume. But I'd also suggest making duplicates of each mask texture and just cleaning them up. Darken the image pattern enough so there is a difference between "painted on" and "actual mask."
I know you all like to keep the costume editor neat and tidy, but there is a significant difference between what we have and what we want.
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So does that mean that any new spandex tops would have more realistic geometry?
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
We're not taking anything away. Old painted-on look will still be available, but artistically, I think it's quite unlikely that we'd ever do a new, HD "painted-on" look.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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This, but just for emphasis i agree with the requests to clean up the old color patterns in addition to adding new ones. Many of the old patterns look quite low resolution and could use some cleaning up.|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
This is the essential take-away, I think. Regardless of what we do, everyone's expressing a similar interest in adding realism/modern textures to these costume pieces. So we could potentially do a few things:
--revamp original tights w/ subtle folds, seams --add new tights w/ heavy folds --add new tights w/ other basic textures (leather, etc.) |
More patterns with skin would also be good for male and huge models beyond the basic briefs. Actually, just more patterns in the trunks/athletic shorts/briefs vein would be good with and without skin. Captain Marvel comes to mind as an example:
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And as a related side note, I'm seeing plenty of interest in: --masks --tights geo variation (trunks, skirts for men, jodphurs, etc.) (this is where we get into the Golden Age super-hero stuff--probably why the two topics became conflated in the first place). |
Also i appreciate you soliciting suggestions and discussing these things with us. That's not very common in my experience.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
When I saw this costume in Monsters vs. Aliens I wanted to make a character with a *cough* very similar costume...
.. in essence: various asymetric lines that can be glowie or shiny and any color. Not that I want to recreate Ginormica since I prefer making my own original characters, but I do sometimes draw inspiration from others. I also like the neckline: part way up the neck.
Also, if you make two versions that mesh at the seam (the waistline), then you get four costumes for the price of two (option 1 top & option 1 bottom, 2&2, 1&2, 2&1). I'd like to see another Tribal pattern, for instance.
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This. A hundred times over. A thousand! Please devs, pretty please!|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Also full mask (and other masks if possible) should have a "sleek" option to match sleek tights -- currently you can make shiny tights on the body but only matte tights on the head.
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*falls to his knees begging and weeping*
Anyway, I'm still not entirely sure why they didn't add this option at the same time that they gave us the 'sleek' option for gloves/boots. It seems odd to do the work of updating the gloves and boots, but not the masks. The lack of a 'sleek' mask is one of the most maddening limitations I've encountered in the creator.
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The way I'm envisioning the modern/movie look would be pretty different from the Defense/Olympian guard stuff--definitely distinctive enough to merit a new set. It'd also be fairly plain for maximum customization. A subdivided version would be somewhat less plain, but still versatile. |
Originally Posted by Xanatos
*snip*
...I like the idea of subdivided surfaces, surface textures, and ribbing... But I don't think that described Defense/OlympianGuard/CoT/Stealth/Justice/etc AT ALL. The sets, while very cool looking, are too styled to provide players much utility. What I mean by this, is that they're simply not plain enough to fit a large amount of different concepts. |
I'm seeing some interest in such a set, but overall, my read is that it appears to be a lower priority than "old school" tights.
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Hopefully the revamp will be subtle; too many stark folds and seams can detract from the Silver Age look some of us still prefer. |
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
This is the essential take-away, I think. Regardless of what we do, everyone's expressing a similar interest in adding realism/modern textures to these costume pieces. So we could potentially do a few things:
--revamp original tights w/ subtle folds, seams --add new tights w/ heavy folds --add new tights w/ other basic textures (leather, etc.) And as a related side note, I'm seeing plenty of interest in: --masks --tights geo variation (trunks, skirts for men, jodphurs, etc.) (this is where we get into the Golden Age super-hero stuff--probably why the two topics became conflated in the first place). |
While I would love to have two color patterns for tights (that is, the pattern itself plus colorable outlines around it), I realize that gets into tech, not just art. However, something similar might be achieved by making the edges of the current patterns semi-transparent to give the illusion of lines or highlighting, similar to how the Thorns pattern is handled.
More patterns overall (not armor, but just tights overlays) would be nice too. Most likely you have to be careful there so as not to make it too easy to duplicate copyrighted characters, but looking at other sources, games, and such there are still some very cool pattern varieties that could be added.
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I hope that's what they are thinking |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So does that mean that any new spandex tops would have more realistic geometry?
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Here's a really extreme example of what Golden Girl wants to avoid:|
Originally Posted by Todogut
Like gameboy1234, I am having difficulty understanding this request. Please post many images--drawings or perhaps photos of real-life models--to illustrate the design concept. Doing so will help promote shared understanding. Thank you.
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The tights in that picture somehow have the ability to outline every contour of Spider Woman's breasts, including her nipples, while simultaneously wrapping itself into every possible contour of her pectorals, her biceps, her triceps, and pretty much every other improbably accented musculature she might have.
Likewise, this example of yet more Spider Woman super cleavage:
That's what you get when the tights are "painted on" and follow every contour even when real fabric would never fall like that; even super-elastic fabric. The suit would have to be built specifically to showcase and support the breasts like that. Not to say that Spider Woman would never showcase herself that way, but the issue is that the current tights in CoH that are basically an overlay over the body are following the same pattern as if it's the natural way for the fabric to fit like that.
This picture of one of the "modern" Wonder Woman styles, on the other hand, shows what Golden Girl says she wants:
This is more representative of how fabric, even elastic fabric, really fits over a female body; even with the still improbably emphasized abdomen that Wonder Woman has there.
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YES! Yes please!|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
A) revamped old school/spandex tights similar to the ones we already have (adding a few details like seams but still mostly plain)
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It would be lovely if they tights had a little ridge around the edges, and some subtle detail like this... ESPECIALLY on masks and items colored WHITE.
White tights should not look like paint, but clothing.
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C) modern super-hero tights (w/ ribbing, surface texture(s), subdivided surfaces) a la Ultimates 1 or Marvel movies. Some say that the Defense and Olympian Guard base textures cover this style fairly well. Do you agree? |
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--it's fine to discuss shorts, skirts, and other similar looks --likewise, feel free to bring up related basic accessories (like masks, etc.) --let's not discuss specific genre costumes in this thread --let's keep posts to 1-2 paragraphs please; succinct points will get you maximum impact |
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I like this a lot. Many of the recent costume packs limited our ability to mix and match so I think many players would appreciate it if they were better able to match these items.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
The way I'm envisioning the modern/movie look would be pretty different from the Defense/Olympian guard stuff--definitely distinctive enough to merit a new set. It'd also be fairly plain for maximum customization. A subdivided version would be somewhat less plain, but still versatile.
I'm seeing some interest in such a set, but overall, my read is that it appears to be a lower priority than "old school" tights. |
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This, especially. And masks, as mentioned. Many of the already-existing patterns are quite good, very superheroic; they just look too much like skin paint. Making them look like actual tights (and upping the resolution, of course) would be a great improvement.|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
Some options to consider:
A) revamped old school/spandex tights similar to the ones we already have (adding a few details like seams but still mostly plain) |
Oh; and there should be a metallic version; both for the tights-with-skin outfit, and a full coverage version that doesn't have the seamed/jointed look of the in-game Metallic option.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
I'm going to reiterate my opinion from the previous thread to make sure it doesn't get lost: I feel like we've gotten a lot of option C lately. I wouldn't object to more of it, but that's not really why I think people are asking for more "superhero" stuff.
I'm actually happy with the original 2004 tights themselves as a base. I think the best things you could do to add more "superhero" options would be to make new, simple tights patterns, and add some improved versions of some of the old ones that have issues. For example, the color/skin blending on the old tights with skin patterns when using a grayscale color is something that bothers a lot of people (as I said in the old thread, make them more like Tank Top, so they're opaque when white or grey).
I'd also like to see upgraded versions of the "with skin" options that match the Sleek tights, both for Tops with Skin and Bottoms with Skin. I'd like to be able to make a sleek leotard with exposed legs (which would require sleek "bikini" bottoms), or a sleek Tanker top to match with sleek leg tights.
Razorstrike also had some good examples of new tights patterns.
Thanks for doing this, NS.
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More patterns overall (not armor, but just tights overlays) would be nice too. Most likely you have to be careful there so as not to make it too easy to duplicate copyrighted characters, but looking at other sources, games, and such there are still some very cool pattern varieties that could be added.[/QUOTE]
As far as I know to my knowledge, textures are not copyrighted...there might be some that are trademarked but any material design is pretty much up for grabs. So players would be able to create any character they want to an extent obviously.
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In City of Bewbies, the spandex fits between the breasts like a glove between fingers on a hand. In this picture, where the yellow vertical stripe is in front is like a deep chasm between two mountains. |
Originally Posted by Todogut
Like gameboy1234, I am having difficulty understanding this request. Please post many images--drawings or perhaps photos of real-life models--to illustrate the design concept. Doing so will help promote shared understanding. Thank you.
|
In real life, there is a bit of a depression between the breasts, but it's like a slight dip in the road.
Hope this helps.
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Oh, yeah. This is happening because it's blending with the skin. Black masks have issues with this too-- all greyscale options do this for some reason. You can't get a black full mask that matches black tights, the masks look dark grey.
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Originally Posted by Commander
Can someone fix the color palettes? White face masks NEED to be the same exact shade of white that is used on the tights. Here is an example:
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This would be fantastic. Also agree with whoever said the CoT stuff is exactly what some of us don't want in regards to tights, etc. I'm after simple building blocks, and more of them. For instance, I tend to use the Sharp pattern a lot on gloves and boots, because it lets me put a band around the edge. I'd love to have another one like that which didn't have the pointy bit.
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Originally Posted by Bullet Barrage
I'm not sure if this would fall under the basic tights thing, but the patterns. I have an idea to allow for 3 colors, instead of tights+1 color detail.
Instead of having the patterns and the tights styling on the same selection section, have a whole different section for patterns, with two of them allowed under the section. I *think* this would be possible because the way the logos under Chest Details work. I think it would completely change the costume experience, in a good way, since all the previous patterns would be available, and you wouldn't be forced into using any at all. |
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Would there be any chance of getting an opaque version of the current 'painted on' with-skin tights? I'm sure Sister Psyche would appreciate Swan having something less transparent to wear around her husband.|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
We're not taking anything away. Old painted-on look will still be available, but artistically, I think it's quite unlikely that we'd ever do a new, HD "painted-on" look.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So does that mean that any new spandex tops would have more realistic geometry?
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
It would be lovely if they tights had a little ridge around the edges, and some subtle detail like this... ESPECIALLY on masks and items colored WHITE.
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I also think some unique pieces would be kinda cool. Some NPCs are sporting some unique pieces such as most of Mother Mayhem's costume; Desdaemona has a tad unique looking going on. So maybe just giving us access to a lot of these pieces would be an alternative idea if the demand isn't high for a tights pack? Or maybe a mix of new stuff with NPC stuff?
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Unique pieces in the costume generator of an MMO. The mind boggles.
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Originally Posted by TheJazMan
I also think some unique pieces would be kinda cool. Some NPCs are sporting some unique pieces such as most of Mother Mayhem's costume; Desdaemona has a tad unique looking going on. So maybe just giving us access to a lot of these pieces would be an alternative idea if the demand isn't high for a tights pack? Or maybe a mix of new stuff with NPC stuff?
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Yeah classic tight options are definitely #1 for most people. In a way, possible improvements already exist in game:|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
The way I'm envisioning the modern/movie look would be pretty different from the Defense/Olympian guard stuff--definitely distinctive enough to merit a new set. It'd also be fairly plain for maximum customization. A subdivided version would be somewhat less plain, but still versatile.
I'm seeing some interest in such a set, but overall, my read is that it appears to be a lower priority than "old school" tights. |
Male -> Chest -> Tanker
Vs.
Male -> Chest -> Tights -> Tank (pattern)
The pattern is just painted on, whereas the actual tanker top has a lined edge. Allow the option to have the Tanker top connect with spandex/metal/etc arms.
Male -> Bottoms -> Bare
Vs.
Male -> Bottoms -> Tights -> Brief
The pattern is just painted on, whereas the actual bare bottom has a lined edge. Allow the option to have the bare bottom connect with spandex/metal/etc legs.
Thanks for listening.
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I'm divided--one might even say I'm subdivided. But let's just be practical about this. Both sets need to happen. You know it, deep down, Noble Savage! The wild success of the Ultimate Marvel franchise and Marvel Studios movies is testament to the fact that you can make super heroes look good in any medium when you've got great design, even live action. On the other hand, over 75 years of classic comic book spandex is a nice little testament, too. Nuff said!
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
The way I'm envisioning the modern/movie look would be pretty different from the Defense/Olympian guard stuff--definitely distinctive enough to merit a new set. It'd also be fairly plain for maximum customization. A subdivided version would be somewhat less plain, but still versatile.
I'm seeing some interest in such a set, but overall, my read is that it appears to be a lower priority than "old school" tights. |
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