Time for COH 2.0?

Yeah, I know, they could be working on it and not saying a word.

Cryptic was basically created to make COH, IIRC. (And don't give me "Cryptic doesn't own this now." I know that. However, it's where it started.) It was their first game, on an engine they created, and there were many areas they didn't look ahead on, plan for, or had philosophical objections to at the time.

By now, the game's been extended, patched, scabbed on to, folded, spindled, mutilated, tacked on, broken apart to give us what we have now. Old storylines and systems are discarded, systems are in place that the devs don't want to touch because they could implode if you look at them sideways (bases,) graphics (I know, another engine, really) are... dated, and jarring as you go between zones (I almost like the older zones better - Atlas looks like it's in a plastic bubble case to me,) and others have been poorly documented so nobody's quite sure what they do. (Remember the bit from Castle and Ghost Widow mentioning how they discovered Taunt didn't work the way they thought it did?)

I think it's really, *really* getting to be time for a COH 2. The devs have, I'd hope, learned the hard way to not lock themselves into things quite so much (even if they seem surprised by what seems to be rather straightforward requests by the players - like wanting to color powers, or disable effects, or have a solo path on a system.) And they'd hopefully push it past the rather... odd... "everything in its city" setup.

Alternately the game gets more dated, more scabbed on and limps along until it's shut down. Which, yeah, will happen eventually, but I'd really love to have its successor in place and going strong - hopefully with some actual ADVERTISING behind it. For all my complaining lately (see DA,) I do want to see this go on and have the franchise around for a long time.

Basically, I kind of wonder if they're getting to the point where the game's various systems are going to be ready to break if they alter too much more - how many odd bugs are going to show up because they did X to the character creator, so now Y is happening when you try to use the train or something weird like that.

I think that a sequel of some sort is quite possible

But this version of CoH is still alive and kicking

If you looked back to 2004 you'd realize that you're already playing CoH 2.0.

I thought CoH 2.0 was that other superhero MMO (y'know, the goofy looking one)...which means we're due for CoH 3.0.

If CoH 2.0 means a couple of huge cities that aren't sectioned off, and powers are worked a bit better and can still have awesome art style (I love CoH's current art style, while many might say it's dated)...and little tweaks to powers....Im all for it!

/jranger

But I can't just say that or I'll be in trouble, so...

Basically, it's this: I see what you're saying. And I bet they get it, and are working on avoiding a meltdown.

BUT... even if it's not the ubereyecandyfest that others are, it is a great game as it is. I hope it doesn't get broken by something they add/change, but it's out there. I bet it doesn't, or if it does, it's only for a short time. Stuff happens.

The content is what keeps most people interested. THAT is what needs to keep being expanded. I'm fine with the graphics as long as they keep adding things. I don't need eyecandy, although it's nice, I want STUFF. Things to do, powers to learn/try, stories to read/tell.

But what I will absolutely leave and never come back for is this: If you abandon all the hard work I've put into these characters, if you abandon all the lore that's been read and learned, if you make me start over... I just walk away.

However, that is me. For a newbie coming in to Co* 2 (which is a HORRIBLE idea, by the way... a completely new name is in order) it'll be fresh and stuff.

And it'll be horribly gimped from the powersets and such, in such an order of magnitude it will be Co* Issue 3 or so, with better graphics maybe.

Nope. It's fine like it is, ya ask me. Even with it's warts.

Yes, if for no other reasons than it's time for a modern engine and fresh, clean, well-documented code. The game's developers have proven their worth over the years as the MMO equivalent of MacGyver, but it really is getting near time to retire the grand old dame and start anew. Y'know, in a couple of years, maybe.

No.

The brand isn't strong enough to support a sequel.

I don't honestly think CoH 2 will ever happen, and if it does, I doubt it will be any good.

Games just aren't made the same way today they used to be. You won't get the same kind of content commitment at launch and sustained support that CoH had. Development is just too bloated and expensive nowadays for that, and the NCSoft would surely have their hands in the pot.

Case in point: that other super hero game had just as many people who worked on CoH working on it as CoH 2 would, and you see how that turned out.

Not to mention if the Incarnate system content is any indication of what the devs will do with something brand new, I don't think I'd want to play that. I don't honestly think our devs truly get why we like this game, and even if they did, I don't think they would prioritize that over trying to attract new players.

The end result would be just another generic 'modern' action MMO clone with less features and content than we have now, and slightly better graphics.


But the point is probably moot. CoH is in decline. We're not DOOOM(TM) but we're also not growing. GR didn't attract and retain the numbers they'd hoped. The conversion to the Freedom pay model didn't look like it did much either from the initial numbers released, but the jury is still out until the next quarterly stats are released. From a business perspective, I can't see NCSoft putting up the money to get a proper sequel out the door. They didn't strike while the iron was hot and now it's cooling down fast.

They can feel free to prove me wrong on all of this. The fact is, I'd be very happy to be wrong on all counts, but I don't think I am.



.

No, it's not time for CoH2. The sky is not falling.

Eco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

All CoH 2 will do is spread the existing player base across 2 games without bringing in many extras. There just doesn't seem to be enough interest in super hero MMOs to support a lot of them. Just look at how 'great' other more recent super hero MMOs are doing. Even the one that had a huge IP behind it isn't really succesful. CoH 2 wouldn't even have that.

Oh, another thing they could do with a CoH 2.0 is combine some of/change some of the ATs.

Brutes and Tankers become one. Lower damage mod, but with Fury/Bruising.

Scrappers become the ST DPS with the ability to choose between becoming like a Scrapper is now, or a Stalker.

Blasters lose the Manipulation aspect and gain Defense Secondaries. While they're ST is good, they become more about taking out mass smaller enemies. Less ST DPS than a Scrapper, but AOEness of yumminess.

Defenders/Corr's become one! I'd likely go with the idea that Blasts are secondary, but they now have Scourge.

And other changes like this, to basically consolodate the ATs.

No.

There won't be a CoH 2.0. I don't mean there will never be a sequel. There might be, someday. What I mean is that it won't be this game, made shiny. It will be a different game with the "City of Heroes" name stamped on it.

I have never, ever played a sequel to any video game that was anything other than someone else's vision for what the first game should have been, but wasn't. Sometimes the sequel has been a fine game, but if I really liked the original game, I have never once been happy with the sequel, because it was missing things from the original game that were part of why I liked it so much.

To me, wishing for and then getting CoH 2.0 is likely to be a bit like fantasizing that your significant other could suddenly get the body of a supermodel or greek god, having it actually happen, and then discovering that their personality was changed by the process and the things you liked best about them were altered.

I'm sure to some people, this sounds like Chicken Little. After all, I can't know for sure what a CoH 2.0 will be, and whether or not I will like it. That's true, but here's what I do know, and why I think that kind of soul change is likely with any sequel to CoH.

The successes of CoH 1.0 were due to some of the strangest quirks of fate imaginable. The designers set out with fairly draconian visions of combat balance yet managed to create a min/maxer's Monty Haul wet dream that somehow also included no real "loot". They thought combat would proceed at a fairly slow pace, but created one of the most FPS-like MMOs that would exist for years. They thought we would slog our way from mission to mission street sweeping as we went, but gave us relatively early access (compared to competition) to glorious and fast travel powers.

CoH ended up being wildly entertaining almost because it's designers missed a bunch of the marks they were aiming for. A lot of things they did, like how buffs and debuffs stack, they did the way they did seemingly because they were both (actually) noobs at MMO design and kind of bad at math (or at least at mapping their math to gameplay).

Now, I'm sure there are a lot of lessons-learned about the "feel" of CoH that designers of version 2.0 would be likely to identify and try to preserve. The fast pace and scale of high-level combat are examples of things that I hope would be noticed and retained. But how they are achieved seem extremely likely to be approached with more careful, less noobish design. And that, in my opinion, is where the risk lies of them replacing the soul of this game with a new one. I am almost sure its "personality" will change.

I don't play other MMOs. I was exposed to them constantly before CoH, because I have many friends that play lots of different MMOs. I looked at those MMOs and was always tempted to play them to join my friends, but looked at what my friends were actually doing in most of them and felt "why would I pay monthly to do that?" CoH was the only one that made me go "ooh, I want to do that!" And outside of CoH, I still feel that way, even with the most very recent MMO alternatives. This makes me feel very confident that if CoH 2.0 feels much like a different game, I will be exceptionally unlikely to play it.

All this leads me to think that calls/wishes/demands for CoH 2.0 come from two broad categories of people:

• People who do play (or would be willing to play) different MMOs, and so would be happy playing an essentially different CoH game if it provided a few core elements they want, such as genre.
• People who are thinking that CoH 2.0 will be CoH 1.0, reskinned and tuned for better performance.

You have a point Uber! But I think a lot of what people have in ideas for CoH 2.0 is basically taking CoH as it is, and giving it a facelift, when that likely wouldn't be what happens at all.