Quote:
I agree everyone should be heard. However, realistically, we can't expect everyone's expectations to be met.|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
I don't think we should just dismiss PvPers here. They are part of the game and gravity control is one of the better pvp control primaries. I have done a lot of PvP in the past with my grav/ice and grav/elec doms and used them to good effect messing with the other team by WHing their buffbot into a kill squad, or WHing the drone hugging blaster. I've even used DS to escape scrappers, etc. Personally, I don't think the DS effect was long enough, consistent enough, usable enough to warrant basing my PvP strategy on it. I also don't think that it should hold up changes to the power to make it more useful in PvE. That said, those who use the power for PvP purposes should be heard and their concerns addressed, not ignored or shouted down.
|
Quote:
|
If there's a way to preserve the click for PvP purposes, then great. If not, maybe there's some debuff mechanic that could be added to compensate for losing that utility. I'd like to see anyone exiting a dimension shift to be 'messed' up somehow. Most other patch type powers have some lingering debuff effect that lasts beyond the power's duration, so why can't something be added here for DS? Arcana's idea about the -regen would be useful. That would work for PvE (targets can't just regen while phased) and would have PvP use. I can also see something along the lines of some -acc or -dam or -rch to simulate confusion when you reappear in 'reality'. |
As my main is a Grav/Rad and I also use a Grav/Time quite a bit (both incarnated up) I have nothing but love for these changes - these are more than I ever expected (I play them for concept -now they might play better aswell) - thx Devs
Quote:
I don't know if simplistic terms exist as it gets into some of the more obscure details of how the engine works. Here's a 'quick' breakdown.|
Originally Posted by SerialBeggar
In simplistic terms, what's the difference between phased and intangible?
|
Intangible is treated like any other mez. Your character has an "Intangible" attribute that starts out at -1. Intangible effects add their magnitude to this attribute. If it gets pushed above 0, you're considered Intangible. As it's an attribute, you can have resistance to it, you can have strength buffs to it, and so on.
Phase is a special effect. These effects don't have an attribute associated with them, so you have no "state" of being in phase or not, other than the fact that you have a phase effect applied to your character. This also means there's no such thing as Phase Resistance, or Phase buffs. Phase does have a special parameter that tells the game which phase to put you in. So it's entirely possible that different powers put enemies in different phases that can't affect each other.
It also probably means that separate Phase effects don't add their magnitude together, though that depends on how the code that processes them is implemented. From the evidence I've seen so far, my current conjecture is that the Phase with the highest magnitude 'wins'. If two have the same magnitude, it may be possible to be in two phases at once. Dimension Shift for example has two mag 3 phase effects -- one for "Phased" and one for "NoPrime".
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ketch
What I mean is that there is no magnitude to phase. Intangibility had a magnitude (which was variable with enhancement and level difference). Phase, to my knowledge, is simply on or off. You can DS a giant monster or a Rikti Pylon as easily as you can a minion. I'll have to toss some objects into an AE map to test them as well.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Computer
Well the Crates/Containers in the Lambda iTrial are not affected by Dimension Shift. That leads me to believe there is some type magnitude system in place. Unless perhaps some things are just tagged to be immune to phase?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by recalx
i'd dare say that in it's current state, there are more pvpers using grav that pve-ers using grav :-\
|
I do NOT want to bash PvPers in any way (other than good-natured ribbing we all get) however, This is still a primarily PvE Game, even more so in the Freedom era. And when a Set like Grav has a power that is almost universally skipped, PvE play has to come first.
I can't remember when is was said (maybe at the summit or a coffe chat) but the current Devs have stated that they know PvP is really busted in it's current state but they want to address it as a complete revamp and not just patch up it's current state. Therefore it becomes a question of resourses, and Freedom made them even more tight, so the PvP community may need to (unfortunately) learn to adapt till that time comes.
As for the changes? Yes- my first thoughts were as Hawk pointed out, denial of doorways etc. To use my previous example, an ITF. The First mission, the ambushes at the Oracle come primarily from one direction.. they can now be stopped to allow the team to try and complete the mission without getting wiped. Same goes for the Clyclops/Minotaur ambushes in the 2nd mission. Anothere idea I had was the Hero Respecs.. Dropping DS Right AT the reactor for the last few waves...
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
I'll be honest. Even with the new change on DS, I am still not sure that I'll use it. I think aoe phase in this game just confuses people. Yes, there may be some uses. I just think we try to pretend that DS has a "good" use but in reality, it doesn't. We would come up situations where we think DS may work but does it really work that well? If the team needs some panic button, save your aoe hold for the big spawn in ITF or drop Singularity on the edge where the warrior spawn shows up, or use DS right after they come out from the door. I mean there are ways to deal with "panic situation" and I am pretty sure DS isn't even in the top 100 list of "panic button".
If PvPers think the current DS is good, then keep it the way it is - a click power rather than a "drop" toggle.
The Wormhole change solves 80% of Gravity problem IMO. Larger radius with no initial aggro. The other 20% of the problem is to switch place with DS. 
DS is bad in pvpe? Then skip it. It gives you more reason to take other powers. It's not like DS is a good place for set bonuses any way.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
Hmmmm... wonder if this Mechanic could be implemented for all Powers that cause KB? Extra damage could do a bit to remove some of the irritation many have with KB (some, not everyone, KB lovers, but I bet even you would like extra damage | ...New mechanic called Impact that will cause enemies under the effect of Gravity Distortion to take greater damage from Lift and Propel.... |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Benchpresser
... Anothere idea I had was the Hero Respecs.. Dropping DS Right AT the reactor for the last few waves...
|
I like the cut of your jib and glad you're on Liberty
I will say why not just keep the phase location AoE on the reactor itself all the time? If it phases the reactor (it may not but...maybe ?) then no worries.
But yeah, it will be interesting to test; I know I haven't touched my grav/thermal since I unlocked the alpha slot on him....hmm...
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
Since Phase Shift is a location AoE now it is useless against flying creatures or in Aerial combat. Not sure that will be a huge change, since most people do not use it (or run Grav) because Teams throw bricks at Grav Doms. Personally I like it, the idea about phasing doors and ambush sites is brillaint. But it does have the locked to a surface problem now. Any thoughts?
Quote:
Just a silly thought. Based on what ZM says above, maybe they should change the name of the power. What's gravity have to do with dimension shifting, right? So change the power name to Event Horizon. Once something hits it, it doesn't come out. Nothing inside it comes out. Fits gravity perfectly. Of course, my bro will be put out since he has a character (Grav/Rad Controller) with that name....
|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
With the new Dimension Shift, foes running into it are stopped dead at the boundary and can't fire at you. All the other foes behind them will bunch up at the same spot. Set up a few traps such as other patches or pets nearby and when you release them (or DS drops), pow!
My Grav/Storm will have a blast superspeed with Hurricane on agroing foes and then hiding forcing them all to run into DS. Ice Patch underneath and drop DS. Fun. |
My Arc: The Power From Out Of Space, ID# 64800
Mrs. Spoon's Arc: Shades of Betrayal, Acts of Salvation, ID# 59147
Quote:
I have a question. So what you are saying is that if I cast it at a friendly ally's "location", the mobs that enter the location are "phased" but the Blaster isn't? That Blaster can still attack mobs that are outside of the phased "area" with range attacks?
|
Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
All of this works together to let you control with great finesse how much of a group you phase, as well as giving Gravity Control characters a tool for "Area of Effect Denial" - perfect for stopping everything coming through a door, or for dropping where that blaster is standing so that the enemies around him can't melee him.
|
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I have a question. So what you are saying is that if I cast it at a friendly ally's "location", the mobs that enter the location are "phased" but the Blaster isn't? That Blaster can still attack mobs that are outside of the phased "area" with range attacks?
|
That's the way I read it
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
Quote:
Oh that sounds not as bad then...|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
That's the way I read it
|
My next question is, is DS's Area of Effect going to be very obvious so that people can easily tell where the Phased Area is? One of the old complaints on DS is how hard it is to see the mobs that got phased (and now they are still attacking even though they don't do any damage which makes it very confusing).
Is there any way to turn off their attacks when being phased? Years ago when I tried DS, the mobs were immbed and they weren't attacking.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
That'd fit especially well if they could also add that idea that someone had above to also add a drag-to-centre mechanic (assuming it's possible, of course). Maybe also a DoT crushing damage component, which gets stronger as the targets get closer to the centre.....|
Originally Posted by DrSpoon
Just a silly thought. Based on what ZM says above, maybe they should change the name of the power. What's gravity have to do with dimension shifting, right? So change the power name to Event Horizon. Once something hits it, it doesn't come out. Nothing inside it comes out. Fits gravity perfectly. Of course, my bro will be put out since he has a character (Grav/Rad Controller) with that name....
|
Hmm. I like the sound of that!
Quote:
Last I heard drag-to-a-point (or reverse repel) is not currently possible and would require programming a new effect. Which means that it's not impossible, but I wouldn't expect to see it created just for a Gravity revamp. Perhaps if another (pay-for) powerset were being developed that used it, it might be justified, and could also be used for Gravity down the road...
|
Originally Posted by Remmet
That'd fit especially well if they could also add that idea that someone had above to also add a drag-to-centre mechanic (assuming it's possible, of course). Maybe also a DoT crushing damage component, which gets stronger as the targets get closer to the centre.....
Hmm. I like the sound of that! |
Quote:
The selected location can be in midair, much like Teleport.
|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Since Phase Shift is a location AoE now it is useless against flying creatures or in Aerial combat. Not sure that will be a huge change, since most people do not use it (or run Grav) because Teams throw bricks at Grav Doms. Personally I like it, the idea about phasing doors and ambush sites is brillaint. But it does have the locked to a surface problem now. Any thoughts?
|
Hmmm, makes me wish I could make a Grav/Traps; you could phase the enemy, walk right up to them, set up a trap field as they glare helplessly at you then walk back around a corner & turn the phase off. BOOM!
Quote:
It's not locked to a surface:|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Since Phase Shift is a location AoE now it is useless against flying creatures or in Aerial combat. Not sure that will be a huge change, since most people do not use it (or run Grav) because Teams throw bricks at Grav Doms. Personally I like it, the idea about phasing doors and ambush sites is brillaint. But it does have the locked to a surface problem now. Any thoughts?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
I mistyped - it is a location-targeted AoE. It creates a 20 foot radius sphere at your targeted location which phases and immobilizes everything that steps inside of it. You can target a spot in the air, as well, so as to limit the volume of the sphere that intersects with a spawn, if you feel so inclined.
|
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Quote:
Arbiter Hawk beat you to it...by a minute!|
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Hmmm, makes me wish I could make a Grav/Traps; you could phase the enemy, walk right up to them, set up a trap field as they glare helplessly at you then walk back around a corner & turn the phase off. BOOM!
It's not locked to a surface: Underlining mine. |
oh snap!
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
of course you can only target an aerial location if you're at the max range otherwise it will just target the will behind the target
It MIGHT be cool if you could bunch up targets behind the dimension shift, forming a wall of enemies that the enemies behind couldn't pass through, so that you could basically kite a mob...
... except that you get almost exactly the same functionality out of an AoE immob, and with wormhole, they are already bunched up for you.
Fear the Hawk.
Quote:
Or set traps/mines in the corner and Wormhole the mob to them. :P |
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Hmmm, makes me wish I could make a Grav/Traps; you could phase the enemy, walk right up to them, set up a trap field as they glare helplessly at you then walk back around a corner & turn the phase off. BOOM!
|
I used to run a team with trappers and we would do that for fun. The trappers would set up several mines and I wormhole the mob to the bombs. It's pretty funny.
Yes, give Controller /Trap! I'll then have my first lvl 50 Controller - Gravity/Trap. :P
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
The selected location can be in midair, much like Teleport.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Machariel
of course you can only target an aerial location if you're at the max range otherwise it will just target the will behind the target
|
And can the reticle be a big translucent sphere (like Dispersion Bubble) showing what its range of influence will be?
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
Quote:
I'm glad that you said it before I did.
|
Originally Posted by Ouul
Fear the Hawk.
|
so impact is...uh ...containment?
Quote:
Yes/No/Maybe/Sorta-Kinda. |
Originally Posted by B_Witched
so impact is...uh ...containment?
|
Impact will work on a mob even if the hold doesn't take effect (Say because of PTOD), though it won't deal as much extra damage as Containment would have and is -only- applied by Grav's holds, not any other control type (because it's only the holds in Gravity that give -KB).
It might be nice if they went through and added the Impact flag to the powers in other powersets (Such as the immobilizes in Fire/ice/et all), since they prevent KB just as much as Gravity's hold.
Other Controllers/Doms of any type can enable another person's Containment, it'd be nice if other Controllers/Doms could also enable your Impact with the powers of theirs that also disable your KB.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
when i13 dropped, i called every single flaw and ways to solve it. people like you said "let's wait". that's beyond naive. after a month and a half, changes don't get revisited in this game. remember the stalker changes? that was almost 2 years ago. it took two years of dysfunction to get them to look at the AT again. remember the last time a control set was tweaked? last time blaster sets were looked at?
stop showing your lack of knowledge when it comes to game mechanics.
a location based aoe power has zero use in the current state of pvp. the only reason things like glue arrow work is because you are always assured to ground a single person per activation.
the player/npc flags won't solve anything when it comes to this.
you'll need a completely new way of targeting (NOT LOCATION BASED) in order to gain any functionality in PVP.
Your team is still going to get raged when they have to wait for the phase period to be over and you'll still have a target cap of 16 or so enemies.