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I hope so because besides lack of damage, lack of control is the other issue Gravity has. |
Originally Posted by Agent White
Well the damage boost is specifically to the lower end powers, so maybe they're trying to improve that, just not from the direction everyone imagined.
I still think there's going to be more tweaks than what was mentioned at the coffee talk though. |
I am SO looking forward to this change! I haven't played a Gravity toon in years!
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Oh yeah. Does Singy get Impact damage bonus too? I know its Lift's damage is going to be increased a bit.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
Grav remains one of my favorite sets once it gets Singy because Singy throws so many controls, you spend much more time assaulting than controlling. Heck, throw on a few +Def bonuses, and you can (almost) forget your primary and just assault as Singy holds aggro and controls for you. As of I22, Singy will be killing stuff too. Bonus. . |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I'm also wondering if they'll finally fix his animation times. Singy still uses the original cast times for Gravity... 3.1s and 3.2s for Crush and Gravity Distortion respectively.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Oh yeah. Does Singy get Impact damage bonus too? I know its Lift's damage is going to be increased a bit.
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@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Maybe you should PM Arbiter Hawk about that Oath.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
I'm also wondering if they'll finally fix his animation times. Singy still uses the original cast times for Gravity... 3.1s and 3.2s for Crush and Gravity Distortion respectively.
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Hawk answered.
Singy will not have Impact bonus because that will also affect NPC Singys as well. However, he said he is going to look at Singy's casting time.
The Impact bonus damage is currently at .3 scale. How much is that anyway in real number? .3 scale for Controller and Dominator are different?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
.3 scale is indeed a different total amount of damage between controller and dom, since doms have an 0.95 ranged damage modifier and controllers have 0.55. Lift is 1.32 scale and propel is 1.96, so a flat 0.3 scale bonus is ~23% on lift and ~15% on propel - in other words, rather small.
As I noted in the controller thread on these changes, lift needed at least a 20% bonus, and propel at least a 50% bonus, to become reasonably 'good' attacks relative to other ST attacks available to doms. Lift would now have a DPA of ~72, which is comparable to heavy mallet and charged brawl, but still far inferior to such monsters as seismic smash, bitter ice blast, and blaze. It'd still be superior to some of the worse attacks in each set, though, so it'd actually be worth using. Propel still sucks.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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I think Lift on its own is already a very decent range attack that has 100% chance knock up. I have no complaint on Lift right now.|
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
.3 scale is indeed a different total amount of damage between controller and dom, since doms have an 0.95 ranged damage modifier and controllers have 0.55. Lift is 1.32 scale and propel is 1.96, so a flat 0.3 scale bonus is ~23% on lift and ~15% on propel - in other words, rather small.
As I noted in the controller thread on these changes, lift needed at least a 20% bonus, and propel at least a 50% bonus, to become reasonably 'good' attacks relative to other ST attacks available to doms. Lift would now have a DPA of ~72, which is comparable to heavy mallet and charged brawl, but still far inferior to such monsters as seismic smash, bitter ice blast, and blaze. It'd still be superior to some of the worse attacks in each set, though, so it'd actually be worth using. Propel still sucks. |
Propel... ugh. I can see some sets like /Earth and /Thorn may take it for more range attacks but like you've said, it is still not good enough.
One thing that comes to mind is that Gravity hold has -kb, so you are not really getting the knock back benefit from Propel. The trade off for using Propel on a held target is even worse when you don't even get that knock back. A normal gameplay would be you Hold One and then attack another. Having Impact tied to Gravity Distortion negates Propel's knock back.
Can you still get Impact damage if the boss has Gravity hold on him but he is not held yet?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
if Impact applied to any knockback/knock up you did it would have its uses
you could combine grav with energy at least
or you could give impact a big domination bonus. It wouldn't be damage but it would be something for doms
Are some of you actually excited about these tweaks? Did I miss something cuz they sure sound lame to me. How about addressing some of the real issues with gravity as a set? What about considering the player suggestions for making gravity better?
Did they make Lift an AoE? No.
Is Propel turning into a cone? No.
Is Wormhole getting its AoE increased? No.
Is Wormhole being moved to lvl 12? No.
Is Wormhole's stun going to hit before its aggro? No.
Is Dimension Shift being deleted from the game code? No.
Are the animations being made more visible? No.
So what's there to even talk about here? A couple powers are going to have more damage POTENTIAL... maybe. Whoopdee Doo! I'm a fan of gravity, but none of the stuff that's being proposed is remotely interesting and barely qualifies as improvement in my book. Somebody please explain why this should get me excited.
Please buff Ice Control.
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15.85Damage for Dominators, 9.18Damage for Controllers (18.36 if Impact benefits from Containment, which I doubt).|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Hawk answered.
Singy will not have Impact bonus because that will also affect NPC Singys as well. However, he said he is going to look at Singy's casting time. The Impact bonus damage is currently at .3 scale. How much is that anyway in real number? .3 scale for Controller and Dominator are different? |
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Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
Are some of you actually excited about these tweaks? Did I miss something cuz they sure sound lame to me. How about addressing some of the real issues with gravity as a set? What about considering the player suggestions for making gravity better?
Did they make Lift an AoE? No. Is Propel turning into a cone? No. Is Wormhole getting its AoE increased? No. Is Wormhole being moved to lvl 12? No. Is Wormhole's stun going to hit before its aggro? No. Is Dimension Shift being deleted from the game code? No. Are the animations being made more visible? No. So what's there to even talk about here? A couple powers are going to have more damage POTENTIAL... maybe. Whoopdee Doo! I'm a fan of gravity, but none of the stuff that's being proposed is remotely interesting and barely qualifies as improvement in my book. Somebody please explain why this should get me excited. |
Am I excited about these changes? Yes. At least we know they're looking at it.
Am I Satisfied with these changes? No. Not at all. This is at best a good Start, but it doesn't address the most critical problem of the set (Poor/Clunky control.)
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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I'm not enthused about these changes. It's tantamount to looking at Ninja Summoning and making the blasts better, or looking at Trick Arrow and giving it some minor damage.|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
Are some of you actually excited about these tweaks? Did I miss something cuz they sure sound lame to me. How about addressing some of the real issues with gravity as a set? What about considering the player suggestions for making gravity better?
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I.e.: It doesn't need it. If anyone takes Gravity just to do damage then They're Doing It Wrong.
15.85Damage for Dominators, 9.18Damage for Controllers (18.36 if Impact benefits from Containment, which I doubt).
Blah..that doesn't sound a lot. Only 9.18 extra damage for Controller at lvl 50?? We'll find out once the change is in beta.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
My first non Brute 50 was a grav/nrg Dom. I have 50'd 3 of them. I have perma dom'd 2 of them. they are the only Dom I ever perma dom'd.
All's I can say about these changes are thank the dieties that Dark/Dark is coming out. Be nice to play a Dom again.
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Indeed. There will be a beta phase though, maybe they'll realize that 0.3scale isn't enough to really matter and bump it up a bit. (In addition to other improvements, hopefully.)
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
15.85Damage for Dominators, 9.18Damage for Controllers (18.36 if Impact benefits from Containment, which I doubt).
Blah..that doesn't sound a lot. Only 9.18 extra damage for Controller at lvl 50?? We'll find out once the change is in beta. |
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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This is a really good point because it means you don't get the extra damage if you are relying on that knockback to supplement Gravity's weak control. It would only give you extra damage when you are down to just one or two guys at which point you still have your entire secondary that is good at killing guys.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
One thing that comes to mind is that Gravity hold has -kb, so you are not really getting the knock back benefit from Propel. The trade off for using Propel on a held target is even worse when you don't even get that knock back. A normal gameplay would be you Hold one and then attack another. Having Impact tied to Gravity Distortion negates Propel's knock back.
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Impact for Dominators is not only trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist, but doesn't even fix the problem...
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And 'fixing' it for controllers only, which are now a premium AT, rather than taking dominators (F2P AT) into greater consideration is even worse.|
Originally Posted by Machariel
This is a really good point because it means you don't get the extra damage if you are relying on that knockback to supplement Gravity's weak control. It would only give you extra damage when you are down to just one or two guys at which point you still have your entire secondary that is good at killing guys.
Impact for Dominators is not only trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist, but doesn't even fix the problem... |
I pray they're doing something about that waste of code called Dimension Shift.
Please blow that cottage to hell and back.
Please buff Ice Control.
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I always have good points!! :P|
Originally Posted by Machariel
This is a really good point because it means you don't get the extra damage if you are relying on that knockback to supplement Gravity's weak control. It would only give you extra damage when you are down to just one or two guys at which point you still have your entire secondary that is good at killing guys.
Impact for Dominators is not only trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist, but doesn't even fix the problem... |
Just kidding. I play Gravity a lot and trust me, I have tried to like Propel. The current Gravity in my book is "fine" but only for Dominator. I can see Controllers not liking Gravity because at least with domination, I can wormhole almost everything (yes, even Hami in Lady Grey task force! That's how we got Master Badge.
) as long as they are within the radius but with controller, I don't think they can teleport bosses? My perma Dom would WH a group and rain aoe on them. This tactic I like but the radius is a bit too small. 20' radius would be REALLY nice. And I give up caring about Dimension Shift. I've tried to like that power but every time I use it, I spend even more time trying to explain to others what's going on. They actually made this AoE Shift power WORSE!! A few years ago when you use Dimension Shift, the mobs would just STAND THERE and do nothing. The graphic is hard to tell but at least they are not attacking. Now? The phased foes are STILL ATTACKING. You are just not attacking any damage. It's confusing as hell. I am surprised they somehow made this power worse than before.
Anyway, back to main point...
This new change makes it "awkward". In order to get Impact damage, I have to use Hold first. Why would I need to Hold something that's already stunned by WH? That just takes one extra step.
And the reason Propel belongs to the Control Set is that it has a 100% knock back. Whether people like knock back or not, that's beside the point. Propel itself is a control power. Why would I need to use a knock back on a Held target? This makes little sense for Dominator who has assault secondary.
I am not against having extra damage because I do feel the theme of Gravity for Controller is more about that extra damage than extra controls. Gravity was created for Controller first and it's one of the two control sets that have decent, direct attack (rather than long DoT).
We'll see if we can change dev's mind once beta is up.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I think we know more now. There are the known knowns, the known unknowns, and the unknown unknowns. Based on that, any current vibe on whether they did more that whistle at the moon on this?
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Do we? I haven't run across any new information for some time.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I think we know more now.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
They really need to stop tweaking this set and fix it from the ground up..
Dimension Shift is crap and they know it... they should add an option for another power in the set like HEAT's and VEAT's have for those people who for some reason like that power.
They still arent addressing the problem with Wormholes excessive and unnecessary knockback and the fact that I get the crap shot out of me because the stun is applied AFTER they go through the wormhole...
Genuis...
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Signed.
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
They really need to stop tweaking this set and fix it from the ground up..
Dimension Shift is crap and they know it... they should add an option for another power in the set like HEAT's and VEAT's have for those people who for some reason like that power. They still arent addressing the problem with Wormholes excessive and unnecessary knockback and the fact that I get the crap shot out of me because the stun is applied AFTER they go through the wormhole... Genuis... |
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This is the time to tell them.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
They really need to stop tweaking this set and fix it from the ground up..
Dimension Shift is crap and they know it... they should add an option for another power in the set like HEAT's and VEAT's have for those people who for some reason like that power. They still arent addressing the problem with Wormholes excessive and unnecessary knockback and the fact that I get the crap shot out of me because the stun is applied AFTER they go through the wormhole... Genuis... |
PM synapse ONCE. And then, hit the beta(or get someone who is in to do it for you)
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Arbiter Hawk is the one to PM. I already PM'd Synapse linking to this thread and he said he forwarded it to him.
the problem with gravity is simple - it was created to give controllers more attacks which they generally lack. That is not a problem that dominators have.
really this set would be made much better simply by changing the power order
Crush as a level 1 choice swapped with Lift
Wormhole swapped with Dimension Shift for your frequently available AoE control
Ideas to make the set actually better
Propel - make AoE or cone, reduced damage. The control in it is knockback, many people may not like knockback but it works. A frequently available cone knockback would be good control for the set. For more fun give this "impact" for doms - so it does more damage if the target is held/immobilized like containment does for controllers. That way this is either a control power if you need it, or a damage power if the target is controlled.
Dimension Shift - I'd really like to see this as an AoE Lift. Throw a bunch of foes in the air and drop them. It fits the thematics much more.
Well the damage boost is specifically to the lower end powers, so maybe they're trying to improve that, just not from the direction everyone imagined.
I still think there's going to be more tweaks than what was mentioned at the coffee talk though.