The Paragon Market - A Quick Update


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
Because some of these IOs can cost tens of millions of inf, they can seem rather daunting to some. We're doing our best to address the convenience vs. time invested question in a responsible manner.
Tens of million isn't intimating anyone. No-one is going to buy these.

People want to buy:

Purples
PVPIOs
Numinas
Luc of The Gambler Procs
Miracle Procs
Kinetic Combats

But for the love of retaining customers please please please overcharge for them.


 

Posted

I am Sorry but alot people don't want a pay to win Game, I mean if you keep putting Enhancements up on Market you going to make people mad.


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Posted

The pay-to-win complaints are really silly over things like this. The only advantage these IOs have in any way is that they're better for exemplaring, and I kind of expect that to change in the future just to stop that one niche "problem" from being harped on.

Pay-to-win classically implies getting character power that can't be obtained by playing the game from a real-money market. Unless you consider going from being able to stomp all over low-level TFs on your 50s to rolling your face over your keyboard and winning them a huge boost in character power, this does not meet that definition.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
But you can't boost them with boosters, correct?
Correct. From the initial post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
- 3 new Rare Melee DPS IO Enhancements (which will normally be found under the enhancements category sort by Melee and their respective max levels): Pulverizing Fisticuffs (10-25), Touch of Death (25-40) and Mako's Bite (30-50). Like our previous enhancement offerings, these Rare IOs cannot be boosted, are account bound and attuned and they will level with you, within their level ranges. We're going to be watching these items closely as they represent another convenience vs. time offering and we're interested in their reception. We'll let you know about pricing tomorrow, however this initial offering will be at 50% off of their normal price, both individually for those of you who like to mix and match for your builds and as a bundled set.

-
See the bolded part.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid View Post
There is a very, very important aspect of these store-bought enhancements that is not mentioned here: their set bonuses do not shut off when you exemplar, unless you exemplar 3 levels below the minimum level of the enhancement. This means that purchased Mako's Bite, for example, functions like level 50 IOs at level 50, and level 30 IOs at level 30 with respect to set bonuses.


That's . . . a bit powerful.


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Posted

My feedback on the items in question from a VIP perspective:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
- 3 new Rare Melee DPS IO Enhancements (which will normally be found under the enhancements category sort by Melee and their respective max levels): Pulverizing Fisticuffs (10-25), Touch of Death (25-40) and Mako's Bite (30-50). Like our previous enhancement offerings, these Rare IOs cannot be boosted, are account bound and attuned and they will level with you, within their level ranges. We're going to be watching these items closely as they represent another convenience vs. time offering and we're interested in their reception. We'll let you know about pricing tomorrow, however this initial offering will be at 50% off of their normal price, both individually for those of you who like to mix and match for your builds and as a bundled set.
Dubious about the precedent it's going to set. As for store bought IOs in general, I'm not sure that "non-boostable" is much of a drawback, considering that boosting costs extra and has a miniscule effect on performance. The exemplar bonus as detailed by Liquid already outweighs the non-boostable penalty, IMHO, and I'm concerned that store bought IOs will actually be the superior choice for a majority of game content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
- A new path aura: this will be the first path aura we've offered in the Market (all other paths are either Paragon Reward unlocks or unlocked through Incarnate content) so we're looking forward to seeing what you think. While it will be priced a bit higher than a standard aura, it's not far off and is, IMHO, pretty damn cool looking. You'll have to wait until tomorrow to see it .*
I don't understand the rationale behind charging more for a path aura when they are mutually exclusive with regular auras and not really any different in terms of overall aesthetics. This also goes for the auras available on the Incarnate vendors. They might be more work from a technical standpoint (although I don't know, just guessing), but if so I don't think that translates well into in-game impact, and I don't really think it should be a consideration for price points. To me it seems like they're just arbitrarily more expensive.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
The other is that level 30 rare IOs are frustrating to acquire due to low supply.
I agree with this frustration. I slot entirely level 30s in order to keep set bonuses for exemplaring.

In beta I made a request that would remove my concerns about selling these enhancements: make the in-game enhancements work the same way. Stop making level 30 characters compete with level 50 characters (like me) that are loaded to the gills with inf because of the design of set bonuses and exemplaring. I was told this couldn't (or maybe it was just wouldn't) be done.

Set bonuses were originally designed to shut off when exemplared 3 levels below the level of the enhancement because of balance concerns-- the devs didn't want level 50's to totally outclass level 30s when exemplared due to retaining their set bonuses, and wanted to make them choose between enhancement values at high levels and set bonuses at low levels. But apparently this is no longer a concern now that they are selling enhancements that break that rule for real money.

So, if you can't make the in-game enhancements work the same way as the Store Bought Enhancements, can you just drop the "3 levels lower than the enhancement level" exemplaring rule entirely, leaving the only rule "3 levels lower than the minimum set level" just like the Store Bought Enhancements? That way level 50s can buy level 50 IOs in-game and not drain the supply and crank up the price of level 30-33s for people who actually are that level.


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Posted

Speaking as another VIP, I really don't see a problem with any of this as long as they keep the PvP and Purple IOs off the market and even then, I'm almsot thinking so what.

These items can be obtained in game. And it sounds like if you were going for true min/max you'd going to want to obtain the IOs in game, and then pay to boost them (which you can also do free by spending Paragon Reward points on the Boosters instead of actual money).

Might want to keep sets like LotG off the market though. Lotg: +RCH at lvl 50 enhancement value and it exemps down to lvl 22...that might be to tempting.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokalus View Post
Dubious about the precedent it's going to set. As for store bought IOs in general, I'm not sure that "non-boostable" is much of a drawback, considering that boosting costs extra and has a miniscule effect on performance. The exemplar bonus as detailed by Liquid already outweighs the non-boostable penalty, IMHO, and I'm concerned that store bought IOs will actually be the superior choice for a majority of game content.
Honestly, unless they're dirt cheap, or you're rolling in money, I don't think it makes much sense to buy them.

If you're going to exemplar a lot and/or just cannot stand to try and get low-level IOs in game (and I will concede they're not convenient to get on the market), and you've got the cash to spend on them? Go nuts. It's money that supports the game.

I min max a fair bit, and I've got a significant disposable income. I wouldn't buy these on the market unless they were like a buck a set or something like that. Even that seems high to me for as many as I'd want. I've got all the ToDs and the like I need at the moment, and would never dream of replacing them for real money, even for the exemplar benefit. Of course, I also mostly play at 50, but even when I exemplar, I simply don't worry about what happens to most of my sets. My characters are still overpowered unless I'm forced below level 20 or so. It's only special IOs with "set-bonus-like" effects like LotGs and the like that I bother to buy at minimum level. (And I'm not interested in store-bought LotGs, either, were they even available. The % enhancement difference in a L25 LotG and a level 50 one is very small, and even five them them sprinkled around a build is only likely to affect your overall performance if you were within a few percent of a softcap.)

So overall, I can't see people rushing out and buying these by the cartload unless PS sets the price very low, or unless someone is loaded. Setting the price very low would probably be dumb. And if someone loaded wants to throw money at the game I like to play, more power to them, literally.


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Posted

This really dosn't bother me at all , im not sure why I should care if someone buys IO's from the store , on the market , off market or whatever . It dosn't really affect my enjoyment of the game .

though if you want my money you need to toss more costumes up on the store , im getting tired of not being able to give you my money because you are testing the waters with things like the zombie survival pack .


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid View Post
There is a very, very important aspect of these store-bought enhancements that is not mentioned here: their set bonuses do not shut off when you exemplar, unless you exemplar 3 levels below the minimum level of the enhancement. This means that purchased Mako's Bite, for example, functions like level 50 IOs at level 50, and level 30 IOs at level 30 with respect to set bonuses.

This is superior to the functionality of in-game level 50 IOs (whose set bonuses shut off at 46) or level 30 IOs (whose enhancement values stay at the level 30 value when at level 50). Though there are level ranges and exemplar levels where the in-game ones are slightly better enhancement-wise, these IOs are almost always superior to in-game IOs with respect to set bonuses.
Yep. I said the same thing in freedom beta. These scaling IOs are more powerful than what is otherwise available in the game.

I'd love to see all IOs function this way. I've bought some of the resistance IOs. They work great. However, I don't like these being available only through the store.


 

Posted

I see Gunslinger!

EDIT: Nevermind they removed it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Zemius View Post
I see Gunslinger!

EDIT: Nevermind they removed it.
I can't unsee it.

It was listed under "Historical" section of costumes (This replaced the Coming Soon)


"I saw my advantage and took it. That's what heroes do." - Homer Simpson.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Zemius View Post
I see Gunslinger!

EDIT: Nevermind they removed it.


 

Posted

SSA 3 live tonight. coo, enough for me. curious what the aura is. Have to kinda agree, I don't get quite why 'path' auras have to be any more expensive than normal auras. Curious what it's gonna be though.


 

Posted

Quote:
their set bonuses do not shut off when you exemplar
Not true.

If a set is 20-40, e.g. Then if you're level 20, that have the stats of level 20 IOs. If you level 33, then they have the stats of level 33 IOs. If you're level 40, they have the stats of level 40 IOs. And in all three cases, the Set Bonuses would be working.

But, if you go above the range, then they freeze at 40 and 20. If you're level 50, they have the stats of level 40 IOs and their Set Bonuses would be working.

If you are level 17, then they have the stats of level 20 IOs. The Bonus Sets would still be working. And the Enhancement Aspects would be scaled from 40 to 17.

If you are level 15, then they have the stats of level 20 IOs. The Bonus Set would stop working. And the Enhancement Aspects would be scaled from 20 to 15.


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Posted

I support a Paragon Market sub forum.

And a Voodoo Girl fanfic sub forum as well...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidius View Post
Not sure how I feel about this in particular...
Doesn't matter to me. I'll buy them with in-game money I get for free.

If someone would rather give real world cash for them. *shrug* Go for it.


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Posted

the day that you cannot play this game successfully with a peep fully slotted with SOs (and hami-Os if inclined) is the ay it becaomes 'pay to win'. til then, its a convenience buy for folks that won't (or cannot) earn them easily in game.


 

Posted

Speaking as someone who just doesn't have the time to play constantly anymore, and as someone who has only ever had TWO (worthless) purples drop EVER since they came out, I can quite happily say that I'm fine with the option of being able to buy them should I want. I'm never ever gonna get them otherwise...


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent White View Post
the day that you cannot play this game successfully with a peep fully slotted with SOs (and hami-Os if inclined) is the ay it becaomes 'pay to win'. til then, its a convenience buy for folks that won't (or cannot) earn them easily in game.
To be honest my problem isn't with selling IOs it's with the fact that the IOs being sold are superior. If they were identical to regular IOs I'd be perfectly fine with it.


 

Posted

So... the Autumn Path is "pretty damn cool looking"? Maybe if the leaf pile blobs looked better. Or maybe if there were less of those blobs as I think I can almost see leaves that actually look leaf-like underneath them.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
To be honest my problem isn't with selling IOs it's with the fact that the IOs being sold are superior. If they were identical to regular IOs I'd be perfectly fine with it.
This is my problem with this too. If they made the in-game ones work the same way, or even just let the set bonuses work when exemplared then I wouldn't be so bothered about them selling these to people who have more money than sense.



I actually have an AE ticket farmer locked at level 30 just to generate recipes because the mid-level supply is so poor. If level 50 IOs kept their set bonuses down to the minimum level of the set then that would relieve much of the market pressure. I guess that won't happen because then even fewer people would buy them for real money in the store.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
But you can't boost them with boosters, correct?

Hmmm...this makes me wonder if Crushing Impact was a big seller on the market (though Adeon seems to doubt it).
I am a big believer in Crushing Impact.

I do use Ouroboris a lot to catch up on things I missed in normal leveling, and I even revisit fav story arcs....so, I bought a lot of these new fangled Crushings and I am happy with my purchases.

I also use Mako's Bite on those toons who can stand up to Carnies. The set has a very good Hold resistance, and when you are surrounded by a whole lot of Carnies, 1/5 with bosses, you tend to get held. Two sets normally makes that problem go away.

I have a stockpile of Mako's recipes so I probably will not be buying these new ones, but, Touch Of Death I never use, and maybe I should be.

Hmmm.

Which of the Brute/Scrapper secondaries get the biggest bang for their buck using Touch Of Death?

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Posted

ooo! Buisness model! You are going to get fat!

Alot sooner than I expected too! This should be interesting!

This kind of news makes me very happy.

So tell me, how are things?

Has the situation improved?

do you have more money incoming now?

Are things getting better and more well funded?

I'd like to know, because I certainly hoped so!

It can only lead to :::BIG WIDE GRIN:::

...more base love.

Edit: I sincerely hope you make a speedy recover Z and that you aren't in any pain.


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