The Paragon Market - A Quick Update
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-11-07 17:23 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
For the record, I would also be totally fine with Purples being in the market, assuming they could only be slotted at level 50 like the in-game ones. In-game Purples ignore all of the exemplaring rules already, so the SBEs wouldn't be mechanically superior in any way.
I understand and accept Arcanaville's argument as well, however. I just wouldn't oppose them for the reasons that I am opposing the existing ones. I normally would oppose the selling of any kind of stat-boosting item, but that ship has sailed for CoH, so now I'm more concerned about selling mechanical advantages.
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SSA Pt. 3 - Yay! (but I'm still working on lowbie alts - so that'll be a while)
50% off - Yay! (already have it - but nice addition to play mechanics)
Path Auras - sorta-Yay! (you folks are going to make me upgrade my video card, aren't you)
3 new Rare Melee DPS IO Enhancements... um... Don't like it.
I'm sure it makes business sense, and I am also sure some may be intimidated by the prices of several of the IOs at the market, but leveraging the market as a means to eliminate game mechanics seems somewhat out of place.
I would have preferred some temp power that boosted drop chances on teams of four or more for 1 character for one day (maybe two) after purchase. I'm not saying "insta-purple-koolaid-drop" power - just a limited increase in percentage chances in exchange for investing play time + points.
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I don't think there would be any need to seed WW, if it were possible to set the level of recipes for random rolls as well as direct purchases. If level 50 characters could make their Merit and ticket rolls at mid levels, then demand would direct supply to the most popular levels, and everyone would benefit.|
Originally Posted by Lohenien
As others have noted, there is a lack of supply in the mid levels. You guys as the developers can remedy this in a few ways : the paragon market and seeding wentworths with mid level stuffs.
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I have stacks of merits on characters that I frankly can't be bothered to roll, because I have no interest in level 50 recipes. I'd rather let them stack up and use them to buy the occasional low-level stealth recipe. If I could choose to roll them at mid levels, all those merits would be used up and supplying the market.
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Not true, Clunker is available in the store. It includes a regular aura and a path aura and is still cheaper. I think the price needs to change on one of them.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
- A new path aura: this will be the first path aura we've offered in the Market (all other paths are either Paragon Reward unlocks or unlocked through Incarnate content) so we're looking forward to seeing what you think. While it will be priced a bit higher than a standard aura, it's not far off and is, IMHO, pretty damn cool looking. You'll have to wait until tomorrow to see it
 .*-Z |
Calling Shenanigans on the Paragon Market. Why do you guys keep saying these are account bound enhancements when they are not. WE HAVE NO WAY OF TRANSFERRING THESE TO ALTS. So stop with the account bound wording when you know its not true. Many of us have been asking for account based storage since day 1, it would be nice to finally get this on characters so we would not be stuck having to slowly email non-bound stuff to alts.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
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Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
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Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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Which is why I said|
Originally Posted by Moonlighter
Well, except you can mail them to yourself.
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| "Account bound" means you can't trade them to a character off of your account. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I don't know why folks are disagreeing with what I said, and then repeating it slightly differently.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
then they need to reword them, because everything I've read on them saysyou can trade them between characters you have, but not to anyone else.
Basically they're tied to your global and can be traded amongth your own characters. |
I'm going to assume perhaps people are getting hung up on the word "claim"? "Claim" is being used very specifically here: after you buy it from the Paragon Market, you can claim that purchase exactly once: I was trying to make clear that you can't buy them and have some sort of per-character font of Touch of Death enhancements. You can buy a set and claim it from the Market with one character, and then it's claimed and you have enhancements.
Once you claim them, you can mail them to other characters on the same account. That includes the examples of unslotting them and moving them to someone else later. I'm not sure what I said in my original response that made folks think I was excluding that possibility.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Ok since when did they change this? on the trading. I tried with the boosted enhancements and could not do anything. Ok if they allow them now but not the boosters how is that fair?
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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Um. Global email works. You even mention it. So they are account bound. I don't know how you turned that into a rant about lack of account based storage. I'd like some too, but the fact is we do have a way to transfer these things.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Calling Shenanigans on the Paragon Market. Why do you guys keep saying these are account bound enhancements when they are not. WE HAVE NO WAY OF TRANSFERRING THESE TO ALTS. So stop with the account bound wording when you know its not true. Many of us have been asking for account based storage since day 1, it would be nice to finally get this on characters so we would not be stuck having to slowly email non-bound stuff to alts.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Yes, we do. I just did it. You globally email them to yourself. Then any of your alts can pick them up.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Calling Shenanigans on the Paragon Market. Why do you guys keep saying these are account bound enhancements when they are not. WE HAVE NO WAY OF TRANSFERRING THESE TO ALTS.
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This applies to the Attuned/AccountBound Enhancements, such as the ones that went on sale this week.
IOs that you *boosted* with the Enhancement Boosters, OTOH, become character locked and can't be emailed or moved to alts. However, these you can trade with another player's characters, but then the Boost is stripped away.
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Ok thanks or clearing this up. I still don't like it though we should get this for the boosters too.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Yes, we do. I just did it. You globally email them to yourself. Then any of your alts can pick them up.
This applies to the Attuned/AccountBound Enhancements, such as the ones that went on sale this week. IOs that you *boosted* with the Enhancement Boosters, OTOH, become character locked and can't be emailed or moved to alts. However, these you can trade with another player's characters, but then the Boost is stripped away. |
I am ok with them selling them since chances are that will be the only way I will ever see a full set of purples thats not a useless control set. Not saying I will buy them, unless I hit the lottery or something. I look at it like this, it might finally make the market on some stuff finally get down to reasonably sane levels. Ebil marketeers getting just what they deserve finally.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Since they are mailable were they always like this since live? I remember trying it in beta and it not working. Might have been a bug which why I thought the sets weren't tradable ever. I am just trying to make sure it wasn't a change.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Long time player here and I just wanted to give my feedback on your store pricing. The prices are just ridiculoulsy, absurdly, too high.
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Just because people have said it, doesn't make it meaningfully true. |
Originally Posted by Lohenien
A lot of demand for IOs comes from the mid range levels of the game because players can use them as they get higher instead of having to be higher to use them in the first place.
As others have noted, there is a lack of supply in the mid levels. You guys as the developers can remedy this in a few ways : the paragon market and seeding wentworths with mid level stuffs. |
The addition of mid-level content and new powersets does a lot for mid level salvage and recipes. I've been outfitting alts and notice no real lack of which you speak.
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Yeah, that's the problem I have, too.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
To be honest my problem isn't with selling IOs it's with the fact that the IOs being sold are superior. If they were identical to regular IOs I'd be perfectly fine with it.
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I can sort of see it from both sides. On the one hand, they want to give people that little extra incentive to shell out their hard-earned real money. But the difference between that and making the people who shell out their hard-earned money for VIP accounts every month into second-class citizens is largely a matter of perspective.
I put a lot of time and effort into earning the Inf (or Astral Merits, or Reward Merits, or Alignment Merits) necessary to buy the recipes for the IOs I need. And given how many characters I have, that's a lot of time and effort. And I have to make tough decisions: do I want to buy the set at L30 and take a hit in effectiveness in return for keeping the bonuses across a wider level range?
To see someone able to shell out a few bucks and get something better than what my time and effort bought me, and avoid having to deal with the level range tradeoff, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not going to threaten to quit or anything over it, but it's annoying.
The devs have shown a willingness to make adjustments in the pastfor example, they made accolade powers effective across all levels, when they used to work only at or above the level where they were obtained. If they similarly changed the way IOs work, in that we can keep the bonuses down to three levels lower than the IO set's minimum levelor hell, all the way down, like accolade powerseven if we bought level 50 versions, I'd be happy.
And the storebought versions would still have a bit of an advantage over the crafted ones, to justify paying for then, in that they can be bought at the minimum level and level up with the character, rather than having to wait until 50 (or 40, etc.) to get the most effective version of the crafted ones.
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How does someone else being willing to pay real money to get these things cheapen your effort in any way, shape or form? Some people (like me), just don't have the available RL time to spend gaining these things, and some (like me) have unusually BAD luck with the RNG (I've gotten TWO purples, crap ones, since they came out). Their being able to buy the enhancements that you've spent ages earning doesn't actually affect your game at ALL, so why should it annoy you? |
Originally Posted by Robotech_Master
To see someone able to shell out a few bucks and get something better than what my time and effort bought me, and avoid having to deal with the level range tradeoff, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not going to threaten to quit or anything over it, but it's annoying.
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Did you get equally annoyed when they dropped the EAT unlock requirement to level 20 instead of 50?
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<3<3<3 iPhones and apple stuff... And that's PROBABLY why your ear is swelling from her telling you soo much stuff it clogged your other ear from going out :P
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
P.S. iPhone's are teh win. Working from the doctors office without my laptop. And the nurse is just shaking her head at me.
If you ask Mrs Z. That shouldn't be an issue since everything goes in one ear and out the other. |
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Their being able to buy the badges that you've spent ages earning doesn't actually affect your game at ALL, so why should it annoy you? |
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
How does someone else being willing to pay real money to get these things cheapen your effort in any way, shape or form? Some people (like me), just don't have the available RL time to spend gaining these things, and some (like me) have unusually BAD luck with the RNG (I've gotten TWO purples, crap ones, since they came out). Their being able to buy the enhancements that you've spent ages earning doesn't actually affect your game at ALL, so why should it annoy you?
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Their being able to buy the levels that you've spent ages earning doesn't actually affect your game at ALL, so why should it annoy you?
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Not the same situation at all. The EATs players could get at level 20 weren't any better than the ones we previously got at level 50.|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
How does someone else being willing to pay real money to get these things cheapen your effort in any way, shape or form? Some people (like me), just don't have the available RL time to spend gaining these things, and some (like me) have unusually BAD luck with the RNG (I've gotten TWO purples, crap ones, since they came out). Their being able to buy the enhancements that you've spent ages earning doesn't actually affect your game at ALL, so why should it annoy you?
Did you get equally annoyed when they dropped the EAT unlock requirement to level 20 instead of 50? |
Players being able to buy the exact same enhancements I've spent ages earning wouldn't annoy me at all. I'd be happy that people could choose to either spend the money and forego spending the time, or spend the time and forego spending the money, to get the exact same results.
It's their being able to buy enhancements that are significantly better than the ones I spent all that time on that ticks me off. I don't have the kind of money it would take to go around slinging these attuned IOs into my charactersbut there's no way I can substitute time for money to earn them the way I have the level-locked versions available from the game because they're only available for real money.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Their being able to buy the badges that you've spent ages earning doesn't actually affect your game at ALL, so why should it annoy you?
Their being able to buy the levels that you've spent ages earning doesn't actually affect your game at ALL, so why should it annoy you? |
It doesn't...
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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So? If it grinds your gears that much, do the same as they are and buy the things. No one is stopping you.|
Originally Posted by Robotech_Master
It's their being able to buy enhancements that are significantly better than the ones I spent all that time on that ticks me off. I don't have the kind of money it would take to go around slinging these attuned IOs into my characters—but there's no way I can substitute time for money to earn them the way I have the level-locked versions available from the game because they're only available for real money.
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At the end of the day, the only "unfair" thing in this game is that people with plenty of time available are able to gain things that people who don't, can't. All this really does is slightly redresses that a little so that those without the time have a means of progressing.
And so what if the buyable IO's are slightly better than earnable ones. It's just an incentive to get you to part with your cash.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Yeah i would be all over the badges needed for +hp accolades or equivalent powers.
They could have so much of my money.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Nod, not entirely unexpected.
We're going to approach this in a methodical manner. These purchasable enhancements are something we've actually received a lot of demand for, I know I've personally received many PMs asking for them as well as in game feedback, and we want to deliver them in a responsible way (hence their being attuned and bound and non boost-able). Because some of these IOs can cost tens of millions of inf, they can seem rather daunting to some. We're doing our best to address the convenience vs. time invested question in a responsible manner. |
Sell all of it.
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"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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No kidding. |
Originally Posted by MAD UMLAUTS
Yeah i would be all over the badges needed for +hp accolades or equivalent powers.
They could have so much of my money. |
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
To me the exemplaring impact of SBEs is a noticeable and permanent advantage. It means that I can make an exemplar-friendly build without having to do one of the following:
1. Make myself less powerful at 50 by using level 30 IOs (which are frustrating to accquire)
2. Use two builds which represents a not insignificant expenditure of inf when you factor in two sets of things like LotGs and Purple sets.
Now a compromise solution (even if they don't want to make all IOs scale like SBEs) would be to introduce the ability in-game to convert a regular IO to an SBE. The idea would be getting an item (perhaps purchased with Astral Merits?) which can be used on a standard set IO of any level and turns it into a SBE style IO. If they introduced that I'd be fine with it. I'd even accept logical limitations such as can only use it on an IO that is already in the store and doing so makes the IO account-bound.
In many ways I think this would actually be a very nice option. It would eliminate the complaints from people like myself, it would help provide IOs for leveling characters (equivalent to Heirloom items form the MMO that shall not be named) and if the cost was reasonably low (say a single Astral per IO) even the msot hard-core soloist could accumulate a reasonable quantity just by running the SSAs.