Premium Players get less than expected!
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-09-24 05:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
VIP players will receive Incarnate content free? For real? Then the premium players that PAID for incarnate access are worse off if they can't access incarnate content.
Exactly. They have to have something to grant VIPs. That being end game content. The main theme I see is people were "hoping" a lifetime subscription model would come with Freedom. In one of the very first Ustreams and interviews they stated they would not be including such. Because of that people though the paragon reward system would eventually give them everything. Upon discovering it did not people have become upset. Paragon never stated they would have anything close to lifetime, in fact they stated time and again they would not.
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Yup, because they gave everyone access to GR. Note how access to GR being given free includes access to the incarnates.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
VIP players will receive Incarnate content free? For real? Then the premium players that PAID for incarnate access are worse off if they can't access incarnate content.
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Good point!!!
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Originally Posted by Diggis
Yup, because they gave everyone access to GR. Note how access to GR being given free includes access to the incarnates.
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a lot of the problem with these statements is that people are discussing things in binary statements that are actually nuanced. there was supposed to be a "sneak peak" of incarnates in gr, i.e. not the whole system at launch but a sort of subscribers bonus. that was pushed back because of some intense discussions about the quality of incarnates introductions. so while an aspect of the incarnate system was originally planned to be included in the launch of gr, it was a bonus, not the official start of the system. furthermore, incarnates have a kind of in between relationship with gr. you needed it to access it, but it was not actually part of the boxed release.|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
The Incarnate System was originally intended to launch with Going Rogue, but was pulled until the next Issue for a reason I can't recall.
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this is not that unheard of, various costumes and powers that came out with issue 7 were not technically part of the cov launch, and could not be counted as such but did require it to continue. so technically the devs are correct, you didnt lose what you got at the retail release of gr, you merely lost the additional functionality that gr provided months after its launch.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
VIP players will receive Incarnate content free? For real? Then the premium players that PAID for incarnate access are worse off if they can't access incarnate content.
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So that's what this Freedom thing is all about.
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Originally Posted by FalconX_NA
This is clearly just a way to get more money
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I get it. Back when I got into this game, I had to buy City of Heroes to access the game. So, since being able to access the game is clearly a requirement for accessing Incarnates, the act of buying City of Heroes should give me access to Incarnates as a Premium player. It doesn't matter that people can now access City of Heroes without purchasing it, or that Incarnates weren't technically a part of that basic game purchase I made.
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
make this as clear as I can.
I quit when i18 was released and didn't come back till i19, I had to buy GR to access incarnates even though I don't give 2 ***** about preatoria, it's zones or any content there of. Nor any of the power sets released with. I HAD TO BUY GR TO USE INCARNATES, THERE FOR I HAD TO BUY INCARNATES,NOT SUBSCRIBE TO ACCESS THEM, BUY THEM. So simple some people just don't get it. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Sure I am talking about the same game? You can PM me if you want me to name it. It has a free version, a cash store, and a pay monthly option. Seems hybrid to me. I know Warforged came with my box purchase, so it seems like I lost something when I attempted to play it for free. |
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
That game does not count as a hybrid pay model.
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As is, it would be a bad business plan to give everything to premium players. I have enough Paragon Rewards that I have all of the Celestial set, with tokens left over. All I really lose if I drop is a few character slots, and Incarnate stuff. They really are the carrot to me.
I am staying VIP till the servers are shut down, so it matters not to me. I just think it is a bit immature to expect premium to have access to all of the same things that VIPs have. It seems very "cake and eat it too" to me.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
Incarnate access is VIP only - that's not changing, so this thread is totally pointless 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
This thread has gotten crazy.
Freedom changes nothing for people who abide by the expectation printed on every game box, that you have to pay an ongoing subscription to access content.
Nothing on the box means anything if you don't maintain a sub.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
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Many of the threads on these boards are pointless GG, but people still need a place to vent. It is what it is, I don't blame anyone for their opinion. What I hate is how some choose to express that opinion.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Incarnate access is VIP only - that's not changing, so this thread is totally pointless
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Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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(5,8)|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Incarnate access is VIP only - that's not changing, so this thread is totally pointless
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there
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They didn't pay for access to Incarnates, they paid for access to the Going Rogue expansion.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
VIP players will receive Incarnate content free? For real? Then the premium players that PAID for incarnate access are worse off if they can't access incarnate content.
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The incarnate system is something that requires GR, but you don't pay for it.
Much like how I bought City of heroes, city of Villains, and the CoH GvE yet they are coming out with SSAs for heroes and villains that I would have to pay for should I drop to premium.
As someone who payed for this game on three seperate occasions, I demand access to all content released in the future without paying, and all systems tied to those games.
/sarcasm
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#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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No such thing as a Premium player who paid for Incarnate access. There has never been any illusion surrounding City of Heroes: Freedom that any players other than VIPs would have access to Incarnates. In fact, the information was made available well in advance of the new business model.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
VIP players will receive Incarnate content free? For real? Then the premium players that PAID for incarnate access are worse off if they can't access incarnate content.
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I remind you that City of Villains once required a paid account upgrade as well.
Prior to Issue 21, access to the Incarnate system required two variables to be true:
1: Account Subscribed
2: Going Rogue Purchased
As of Issue 21 and the Freedom Launch, there is now only one variable that is required to be true:
1: Account Subscribed.
So before if both were false, you didn't have access to the incarnate system. If one or the other were false, you didn't have access to the incarnate system. Now, if the one variable is false, you don't have access to the incarnate system.
Now, I agree that it'd be nice if Premium players had access to the Alpha Slot/Incarnate Shard stuff as a tempter into the system, but I just can't see them ever changing it to allow Premiums full access to the system.
They're a business. They want you to give them money. It's our decision as to whether we give them money, and their decision to look at things and see if they could be doing more to entice people to spend, whether via allowing access to the Alpha Slot for Premiums, reducing prices of items or tweaking the Paragon Reward Tier options for Premium players.
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You know, I'll take your word on that. If anyone knows a useless post...
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Incarnate access is VIP only - that's not changing, so this thread is totally pointless
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you know, an aside on this topic, as i think its a difference in personal style that causes a lot of conflict, but i suspect some would agree with you, that there should be threads to "vent" and others would say that making threads with no purpose other than to make emotional lash outs and complaints only contributes to the steadily more toxic atmosphere of the forums. I will admit one reason i post so few threads is that i have always felt that in order to start a discussion, there should be something worth discussing, not simply rolling on the floor pounding my fists because something was, to me, subjectively valueless(though this is not saying that I feel it is objectively wrong). I guess i can see the mindset, but its also why so many game related sites become mindless uncivil snipe-fests. the idea that just having a bad attitude about something justifies throwing it as everyonewhereas that seems to describe some people's entire posting philosophy, to complain and scream.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Many of the threads on these boards are pointless GG, but people still need a place to vent. It is what it is, I don't blame anyone for their opinion. What I hate is how some choose to express that opinion.
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I mean, i can see threads where a problem is brought up and constructive attempts are made to fix it, but just a thread to say," i dont like it" and then aggressively fight with everyone who disagrees strikes me as inherently destructive to the community.
TLDR. its all about styles of expression.
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Agreed. Hell, if I could bottle that stuff I could make millions because people would pay me to NOT send masses of it round to their houses!|
Originally Posted by Red_X2
You know, I'll take your word on that. If anyone knows a useless post...
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Cave Johnson, we're done here.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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No.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
That means, if you didn't have GR, you couldn't get Incarnates.
Meaning you HAD to have GR to get Incarnates. Meaning, ergo, that people who bought GR were effectively buying entry to the Incarnate system. Because there was NO other way to get it. |
There is an Arby's near my home town, but it is too far to walk. You HAVE to have a car to go to Arby's. However, that does not mean that by buying a car you are buying Arby's.
You were buying a prerequisite for that access; getting a prerequisite for something isn't the same as getting that thing.
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Originally Posted by seebs
No.
There is an Arby's near my home town, but it is too far to walk. You HAVE to have a car to go to Arby's. However, that does not mean that by buying a car you are buying Arby's. You were buying a prerequisite for that access; getting a prerequisite for something isn't the same as getting that thing. |
Except when it is advertised as including it.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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It wouldn't really be "giving away the farm" if they locked it high enough up the rewards tree. Tier 8 would be perfect. And even then, they'd have to make it a lifetime limited access, which I outlined a couple pages back. People who are not already full Tier 8 would still need to stay subscribed long enough to get there, or spend enough in PPs to get there. For example, my case: I'm 3 tokens from full tier 7, then there would be another 7 tokens for full tier 8. I either need to stay subscribed for another 10 months (which grants access to every piece of incarnate stuff, ever) or I'd need to buy 12,000 points for $150 to get to full tier 8 which, under my example, would only grant me access to incarnate stuff through Keyes.|
Originally Posted by newchemicals
I'll make it simple, if CoH let me use all my incarnate stuff as a premium player there would be no reason at all (for me anyways) to stay VIP. I would be quite happy with all my incarnate stuff. So by all means I hope they do allow for it. Of course, it would make poor business sense to give away the farm like that.
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I'd be all for making BAF, Lamb and Keyes, and the current incarnate power pools, a tier 8 premium bonus, but only if they made everything from Underground and higher, including all the new pools, VIP-only. That would give premiums some end game, and a hook to become VIP to try out all the new shiny incarnate trials, powers pools and (presumably) higher incarnate shifts.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
I think people are overstating how bad Free and Premium accounts are. They are both very playable and very fun. In fact, a Premium who buys $15 in Points a month in lieu of subscription has a big advantage over a VIP in Paragon Store purchasing power.
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Of course, I have no plans on doing this, as I'd rather keep paying to support the game. But should something happen, financially, at full tier 7, going to premium isn't going to hurt terribly bad, I think.
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Col. Gregor Aktaybr - 45 Robots/Time MM
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No. VIPs receive it as part of their subscription.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
VIP players will receive Incarnate content free? For real?
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| Then the premium players that PAID for incarnate access are worse off if they can't access incarnate content. |
Unless you have a receipt that says "Incarnate Access", you didn't pay for incarnate access.
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I've never yet seen anything that did not say that incarnate stuff was 100% VIP-only, no access without subscription.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Except when it is advertised as including it.
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Look...
It does not matter. They have been 100% crystal clear about this from the very first day that there was any discussion of the existence of a not-paying option. Incarnate system? Not part of it.
There is NO point at which ANYONE misled you, lied to you, deceived you, or acted in any way that could possibly lead to a reasonable person thinking that incarnate content was available, ever, by any means, to a non-VIP.
If you want to gripe that they said something which obviously had a few weird exceptions, or that the "you keep the stuff you paid for" language is grossly oversimplified, fine, gripe about that. But they have been absolutely crystal clear that incarnate content was VIP-only, period, for all time. They have been totally unambiguous.
"They said we would get this and we don't" is a totally stupid complaint.
"Their claim that you get what you paid for is oversimplified and does not reflect the nuances of access to certain features" is a perfectly reasonable complaint, but it's not an interesting one because of course it's oversimplified.
How many character slots would I get if I reverted to premium? Would I get all the character slots I currently have? No? OH NO THEY ARE NOT GIVING ME SOMETHING I PAID FOR. Whatever. It's been pretty clear all along.
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lucky me, i have a copy of the gr box, read the whole thing, its not on there. can you post a shot of the advertisement where incarnate content is specified as included please?
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Except when it is advertised as including it.
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And included with Going Rogue, the game box states that it *requires* you pay a monthly fee. If you want to have everything that is included with Going Rogue, simply pay the monthly fee as stated.
However, you can play a significant portion of that for free now, which is a huuuge improvement over playing nothing at all.
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