Premium Players get less than expected!
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-09-24 05:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
If it makes you feel any better, the first analogy that came to mind was going to be a caulk gun.
|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Surely a thread which has combined George Carlin and analogies about driving screws is bound for the Ninth Circle of Hell.
|
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
My point is that you are failing to make the distinction between Incarnates being [edit: a prerequisite] of Going Rogue rather than a part of it. It was a single prerequisite among others.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I really only enjoy discussing things with people who remain respectful.
If I have the time, I can go over your points later, if you would like. EDIT: Actually... that's pretty quick and simple: Access to the forums was part of subscribing. What's your point? |
The point you're trying to make is essentially the same as saying that access to the forums was included with access to the game.
It's the exact same argument. I'm trying to get you to see that you're misplacing GR with I19 and that a similar argument would be to say that forum access was part of access to the game. Or live support.
Just because it seems reasonable doesn't make it true.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
Quote:
No, I saw what you were trying to say, but it does not say that.|
Originally Posted by mogura
My point is that you are failing to make the distinction between Incarnates being part of Going Rogue. It was a single prerequisite among others.
The point you're trying to make is essentially the same as saying that access to the forums was included with access to the game. It's the exact same argument. I'm trying to get you to see that you're misplacing GR with I19 and that a similar argument would be to say that forum access was part of access to the game. Or live support. Just because it seems reasonable doesn't make it true. |
Honestly, think about this.
What else did you have to buy in order to access something that was not a part of that something that you had to buy in order to access it?
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Seriously, hehe, this is not a screw driver and screws... It is an expansion that was required in order to access content in an mmorpg. There are many vast differences.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
EK,
You have to buy a screwdriver to use screws. Most places sell screw drivers and screws separately. Because the screwdriver is a prerequisite, are screws still a part of it? At the end of the day, Going Rogue didn't come with even the smallest piece of the Incarnate system. |
Just focus on how, when the incarnate system came out... even with your subscription, and your level 50 character(s), you could not access it until you paid for... what?
Given that, how do you think that it is unreasonable to think that this content is part of that expansion?
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
I need a computer to play my Incarnate characters.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
What else did you have to buy in order to access something that was not a part of that something that you had to buy in order to access it?
|
I need an Internet connection to play my Incarnate characters.
Shall I go on?
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Quote:
I had to buy the game originally and I had to buy the time required to get my Hero or Villain to level 50. It's that simple.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
No, I saw what you were trying to say, but it does not say that.
Honestly, think about this. What else did you have to buy in order to access something that was not a part of that something that you had to buy in order to access it? |
It was one prerequisite among several.
And the Incarnate content released with I19 with all of those prerequisites in place.
I'm not sure how I could answer your question any more clearly.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
Quote:
Battery charger for my phone.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
What else did you have to buy in order to access something that was not a part of that something that you had to buy in order to access it?
|
As referenced earlier: Screws for my screwdriver.
Needed to buy property to use grass seed and my lawn mower.
Wouldn't have somewhere to use gas if I didn't have a car.
Wouldn't need a dishwasher if I didn't have dishes.
I had to pay for gym access to get a personal trainer.
Bought a TV so I could watch cable.
Have a computer to surf the internet.
I could go on quite a while.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
maybe it might make more sense to list what Going Rogue came with?|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
No, I saw what you were trying to say, but it does not say that.
Honestly, think about this. What else did you have to buy in order to access something that was not a part of that something that you had to buy in order to access it? |
Praetorian zones
The ability to make praetorian characters
alignment merits
the ability to switch alignments via only those particular missions. They were clear that tips were not part of Going Rogue
it didn't come with any incarnate stuff IIRC but when Incarnates came out they said we had to have bought GR to use them
Is that all correct?
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
Yes, you'll need all of that to play City Of Heroes, before, after, with or without Going Rogue and/or the Incarnate System.|
Originally Posted by Aneko
I need a computer to play my Incarnate characters.
I need an Internet connection to play my Incarnate characters. Shall I go on? |
The fact that you fail to recognize this before making such a post is exactly the reason why you can't understand the validity of what I am saying.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Because the Going Rogue expansion didn't come with Incarnate content.
|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Given that, how do you think that it is unreasonable to think that this content is part of that expansion?
|
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Aneko
I need a computer to play my Incarnate characters.
I need an Internet connection to play my Incarnate characters. Shall I go on? |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Battery charger for my phone.
As referenced earlier: Screws for my screwdriver. Needed to buy property to use grass seed and my lawn mower. Wouldn't have somewhere to use gas if I didn't have a car. Wouldn't need a dishwasher if I didn't have dishes. I had to pay for gym access to get a personal trainer. Bought a TV so I could watch cable. Have a computer to surf the internet. I could go on quite a while. |
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Then that question was loaded and you know it.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
That question was within the context of the game.
|
A prerequisite does not a piece make.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
A fact that has been demonstated many times in this thread and been declared irrelevant, aparently.
|
Originally Posted by seebs
The world is full of things which require something else, but are not part of that thing.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
|
Quote:
And it was answered a page back.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
That question was within the context of the game.
|
I needed to buy the game. I needed to pay for time to level my characters to 50.
I actually had to attain level 50, too, besides paying for the time.
The prerequisites were myriad. GR was one.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
Quote:
You still do need to subscribe to do incarnates so that hasn't changed from before.
|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Yes, you'll need all of that to play City Of Heroes, before, after, with or without Going Rogue and/or the Incarnate System.
The fact that you fail to recognize this before making such a post is exactly the reason why you can't understand the validity of what I am saying. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
So expansions do not change over time nor get things added?|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Because the Going Rogue expansion didn't come with Incarnate content.
|
And they are not loaded questions, lol.
When the content came out... it required the purchase of an expansion.
Why make the distinction that it is not part of that expansion?
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Because it wasn't. It was released with I19.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
So expansions do not change over time nor get things added?
And they are not loaded questions, lol. When the content came out... it required the purchase of an expansion. Why make the distinction that it is not part of that expansion? |
Which was free. In order to access Incarnates prior to Freedumb, you had to pay for GR.
Now that access to the game is free, you have to pay a sub to get Incarnates.
They were never "part" of Going Rogue.
P.S.
It stopped looking like "semantics" two pages ago.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
Quote:
How could I possibly not recognize that? Don't be insulting. The fact remains that those things are prerequisites to the Incarnate System as well as the rest of the game, and yet the Incarnate System is not part of those things.
|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Yes, you'll need all of that to play City Of Heroes, before, after, with or without Going Rogue and/or the Incarnate System.
The fact that you fail to recognize this before making such a post is exactly the reason why you can't understand the validity of what I am saying. |
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Maybe incarnates were at one point meant to be part of GR but NOW you need to be a VIP to access this. Why you keep going on and on I don't understand.
Quote:
The answer is our characters becoming Incarnates is to beat back Tyrant and the Praetorians and therefore storywise it is tied to Going Rogue as part of the story.
|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
So expansions do not change over time nor get things added?
And they are not loaded questions, lol. When the content came out... it required the purchase of an expansion. Why make the distinction that it is not part of that expansion? |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
Because it simply wasn't a part of the expansion. Incarnates were not tied to the side switching, praetoria's level 1-20 content, or any other feature released with Going Rogue. All that stuff came with i19 and later.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Why make the distinction that it is not part of that expansion?
|
Setting Going Rogue as a prerequisite was a selling feature, but that Incarnate system was not a part of Going Rogue. This is especially as evidenced by the fact that subscribers no longer have to purchase Going Rogue to play the Incarnate content.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
At the risk of sounding repetitive, who cares whether it was part of GR or not? It doesn't really have any bearing on the situation since even if you bought GR for the incarnate system it was full knowledge that the system (originally along with the rest of the game) would be taken away from you if you did not pay a monthly subscription. This hasn't changed in the slightest. It's not as if they are actually taking more away from you now than before.
The question of whether there is a need for VIP exclusive systems that have a major impact to gameplay or whether those systems should be accessible in some way through sufficient payment for non-subscribers is a much more important topic.
Oh, no argument there, KaoZ.
And I only go on and on, because people reply asking me things or saying something that has an obvious response to counter it.
Dechs and anyone else interested...
I say that the required purchase for the content makes it part of the purchased expansion. You say it is only a prerequisite and that does not make it a part of it.
So, then I ask the question (and this is how I should have worded it originally, apparently):
What else did you have to buy within this game in order to access something that you do not consider to be part of that something that you had to buy in order to access it?
If you really feel like going further:
Why would there ever be such a distinction?
We're talking about vaporware... virtual goods, content, silliness... not screwdrivers and screws for fixing grandma's mechanical boyfriend.
Why would content within that game, that requires the paid expansion, not be part of that expansion? The system was not timed to come out with the expansion's launch, but it still required the expansion's purchase. Nothing else within the game requires the purchase of another part of the game despite it not being a part of it.
The fact that the content that required this expansion was located within the realm of that expansion and revolved around the villains of that expansion is further reason to be okay with saying that this content was a part of the expansion.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Super Tailor.
|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
What else did you have to buy within this game in order to access something that you do not consider to be part of that something that you had to buy in order to access it?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
|
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA