Premium Players get less than expected!

You are not the only one. I prepurchased GR for the alignment system. I had no expectation about the incarnates system being included. I'll take part in the incarnate sytem where I can, but as for Ifarms, I'll probably do them once or twice on my main badger for the badges, if I can get a team with a dual energy blaster if my SG aren't interested. but till the longer less group grindy way comes out, i'll be doing so incredibly slowly.

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

It seems to me that he's thinking that "if A is part of B, then B is part of A", which is just not true.

Except in your drawing A is the Incarnate content and B is GR, because no part of Incarnates is available outside GR.

Incorrect.

So you are saying that there is a part of the incarnate system you can access WITHOUT having access to GR?

rofl

currently, all of it. as long as you are vip, the purchase of GR is not neccersarry.

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

I'm saying that does not make it part of Going Rogue.

Again, I didn't say purchase, I said access too. The Dev's, in their wisdom, granted all VIP players access to GR and all it entails, which happens to also grant access to the incarnate system.

You provided a venn diagram with 2 parts, A and B and alluded that one was GR and one was the incarnates.

If A was GR and B was incarnates then all of GR is part of the incarnate system, which really doesn't make sense.

However, if A was incarnates and B was GR, then all of the incarnates is included within GR.

Your diagram didn't really prove your point. If I bought B in that I would expect it comes with A as all of A is within B.

No it wasn't. The first part of the Incarnate system was part of Issue 19. The rest came with Issue 20. This is undeniable.

I've said before that you could consider GR part of the Incarnate System since it's a prerequisite (I don't think of it that way), but I think you've missed the point of my posting the diagram.

As is the fact you had to purchase GR to access them.

You seem to think that proves something that helps your argument.

I didn't miss why you did it, I just don't think it demonstrated your point correctly.

I understand the prerequisite argument, I just don't agree with it.

My argument is solely that the access to incarnates was purchased as part of the Going Rogue purchase.

Then think whatever you like. I see no point in debating that part with you.

And unfortunately for you that one line is all your argument contains, so calling it an "argument" is stretching the point somewhat. However on the other side we have the product descriptions of Going Rouge, Issue 19 and Issue 20 and the globally accepted use of the word "prerequisite".

And the game info on the GR website which lists the incarnate powers and the incarnate overview. Note, the info listed under this section is ONLY from GR. If you look at characters it's the Preatorian contacts only, if you look under power sets it's the 4 that came with GR.

The GR site has section on Incarnates but it does not say they are included and any mention of incarnates is noticeably absent from the product overview. Also the Issue 19 also has a description of Incarnate stuff, however this time it is listed in the contents.

Access to Incarnates was gated by whatever the devs decided it was going to be gated by.

Now, we know they've been planning the switch to the Freedom game model for WELL over a year now. (We know this because they outright told us)

It seems quite clear now that we can look back on it that they intended from the beginning for Incarnates to be available to subscribers only.

Why was access to it gated by owning Going Rogue?

Simple. It was the only thing they had available to gate things with that made any sense. The fact that having purchased Going Rogue is no longer required, but having a paid subscription IS required just illustrates that further.

They could have chosen to gate Incarnates by having bought the GvE Item pack or the Wedding Pack if they'd wanted to. They chose to gate it behind Going Rogue because it made the most sense.

If they had decided to wait until they had subscribers and non-subscribers we STILL wouldn't have Incarnate content. The only difference is now it's working like they wanted it to in the first place.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

As I've pointed out before, the Incarnate Overview on that site is separate from the Going Rogue Overview, and the site also has information on CoH: Freedom, which I doubt anyone would say is part of Going Rogue. Incarnates are also not mentioned in the GR FAQ.

Well then why couldn't they just gate it behind a sub in the first place? My only guess is their greedy. They made people buy something they didn't want for something they did want.

That's like going to mcdonalds and wanting a big mac but them saying sorry you have to buy the combo if you want the big mac even though I don't want the fries or drink. Get my point of view?

They did, but there was more than one gate.