Premium Players get less than expected!

The thing I don't get is how they can charge people who bought bought all three boxes, CoH, CoV, and Going Rogue, for Controllers and Masterminds. He paid for Controllers when he bought CoH and he paid for Masterminds when he bought CoV.

Edit: I found this out when my friend who has bought all the boxes came back yesterday and has both ATs locked out.

Here's an example as close to this as I've been able to find-

A game about a galaxy far, far away which will be closing down in a few months had several expansions released. The first gave access to space, ships, systems, space combat, all that sort. All amazing stuff, with things people had been asking for for a long time. Going Rogue was released similarly, featuring side switching, new zones, a new faction, new content, things that had been asked for.

This Star Wars game then released more content later on for the planet Kashyyyk. However, at the time, you could not simply travel to Kashyyyk or get a shuttle ticket there. You had to fly there and land manually. Using your space ship.

In that way, that content was gated behind you having the Jump to Lightspeed expansion, but was not part of the expansion. It was a prerequisite.

Similarly here- Incarnate content was all launched AFTER Going Rogue was released, was never advertised as part of the expansion, was not listed in the FAQ, no information was directly linked to Going Rogue. It was I19 that it started with. A preview was intended, that's it, and that was removed before launch. It was a prerequisite to have Going Rogue before you could use the Incarnate content, but the Incarnate content did not come with Going Rogue.

Oh, I have no problem with putting the general consensus group to the test to prove their point as much as the minority, or the ones looking to change the status quo. It just causes better discussion and conversation to come out rather than 'we're right, you're wrong, there shall be no compromise.' I wouldn't have come up with that example if I wasn't looking for a scenario close enough to the present one by being conversationally challenged for one.

[Edit] Oh, and yes, making note of City of Villains coming part and parcel with City of Heroes when Going Rogue was released, eventually JtL came with the base game to subscribers as well, though it happened some time after the Kashyyyk expansion came out. Essentially the same deal there.

I give up.

Think what you want about whether Incarnates are part of Going Rogue.

At the end of the day, the devs have TOLD you that it isn't part of it when they did not allow you to keep it with the rest of it when you drop to Premium.

Simple logical conclusion. If you get to keep the Going Rogue content upon dropping to Premium, but you don't get to keep Incarnate content, then the Incarnate content isn't part of the Going Rogue content. If it were, you'd get to keep it.

How people can rail so hard against something so self-evident is beyond me.

The following doesn't have much to do with anything... but that makes it little different than everything else right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodiguy Oh, I have no problem with putting the general consensus group to the test to prove their point as much as the minority, or the ones looking to change the status quo. It just causes better discussion and conversation to come out rather than 'we're right, you're wrong, there shall be no compromise.' I wouldn't have come up with that example if I wasn't looking for a scenario close enough to the present one by being conversationally challenged for one.

Much appreciated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodiguy [Edit] Oh, and yes, making note of City of Villains coming part and parcel with City of Heroes when Going Rogue was released, eventually JtL came with the base game to subscribers as well, though it happened some time after the Kashyyyk expansion came out. Essentially the same deal there.

...And...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aneko The main purpose of Going Rogue, side-switching, wouldn't have made much sense to someone without both games.

Yep. I wonder how much of this is just an example of how much cooler Paragon Studios/NcSoft are than SOmE other company (by freely merging the expansions before the next expansion... Not that I'm saying they merged them specifically because of the next expansion... I honestly don't know... never thought about it [and it makes no real difference, to me]).
Hehe

Anyway, I just find it funny. It's hardly a stretch to claim that the thing that was going to be a part of the expansion's launch, then was pushed back, but still required that expansion's purchase... was a part of it. That is all.

As I said, I do get why some people would feel unwilling to acknowledge that, as though it'd give people with certain crazy agendas a way to continue arguing their crazy agenda... but reality is reality and I don't think we need to twist things to fend off the crazies.

My original CoH manual details Controllers pretty well too. but anyone who has been playing since CoV launch should pretty easily have both those Archtypes unlocked anyway.

It seems to me that you're viewing everything provided by the service, ever, as something that's included when you consider "what you get" when you buy the product. The problem with that is that they're pretty orthogonal when you contrast buying a boxed product (even if you buy it as a download) and a subscription service. You clearly consider what you get when you buy a box indistinguishable from the service itself. But that's only one possible way to view it.

If you bought an old-school CoH boxed product, it had a feature list on it, along with a disclaimer saying "online experience subject to change". Few people would complain if the online experience added more things than just the ones on the box, so the disclaimer is primarily there to defend against people who would complain against things that are removed or dramatically altered.

That disclaimer, though, isn't going to protect the game maker if the product is significantly different than the box feature list at release. There is an expectation that, when the purchased product bundle is new, the actual features of the onine game will line up with the advertised features of the packaged product. If the features do not line up, buyers have some recourse to complain and probably be refunded.

Despite that, no one would reasonably hold the game maker accountable if that packaged product was bought a year after it was released and someone complained that, a year later, the game didn't match the packaged product.

So there is a distinction allowed between the features of the game service accessed by a buyer of the packaged product when it was new, and the features of the service at a later time. That distinction has to exist to protect consumers in the short term and game makers in the longer term.

When I say "Going Rogue", the product, I am talking about the feature set of the CoH game service that existed when GR was brand new. When I bought GR, that's what it got me. It specifically unlocked certain things in the game that I couldn't access witout buying it, even though I had a subscription at the time. What I got when I bought it was some combination of the advertised features, plus any unadvertised features that were active when I started using it.

One of those things was not Incarnate access, because that wasn't yet accessible to anyone.

From my point of view, discussing "what you get" when you buy a packaged expansion demands looking at the time-frozen feature set the way I am. Looking at it the other way - as a service that evolves over time, makes any effort to discuss what was "included" with a particular release meaningless. It suggests the validity of statements like Inventions were "included" in I6, because ED was a prerequisite for them. From a certain, very oblique way of looking at it, one might make the argument that such a thing is true, but I don't find it useful when discussing what was "included" in a paricular product or release.