Originally Posted by KraZeD_KaoZ
![]() Maybe incarnates were at one point meant to be part of GR but NOW you need to be a VIP to access this. Why you keep going on and on I don't understand.
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Premium Players get less than expected!
Why would content within that game, that requires the paid expansion, not be part of that expansion?
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The devs have never described "the Incarnate system" as part of Going Rogue, the expansion. They only described GR as a prerequisite to accessing the incarnate system.
We keep using analogies because analogies are how one shows the meaning of words, by example. The words do have meaning, and you're using them in ways that doesn't seem to line up well with commonly accepted meaning. Yet you keep dismissing the analogies, because the analogies aren't the thing itself. Yet if we have to define these words uniquely for this example, then again, the words lose meaning. If we can't use these words here as we would use them elsewhere, how do we know what the words mean?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Not to mention that either way, it is meaningless. People (myself included, sometimes) get so ramped up that it's like "Charlie stole the handle, and the train, it won't stop goin'. No way to slow down'.
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![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Believe me, I (reluctantly) made the decision to try and have this discussion here, knowing that it'd likely end up with me getting piled on and looking very silly. Big deal.
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
And I feel like I got a couple of interesting thoughts in response. So, there ya go.
regardless, I understand and agree with your post!
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Because, as seebs pointed out, "prerequisite" or "requirement for" do not mean "part of". As in the actual, defined meaning of those words, such as you might find in a dictionary, do not communicate the same concepts.
The devs have never described "the Incarnate system" as part of Going Rogue, the expansion. They only described GR as a prerequisite to accessing the incarnate system. We keep using analogies because analogies are how one shows the meaning of words, by example. The words do have meaning, and you're using them in ways that doesn't seem to line up well with commonly accepted meaning. Yet you keep dismissing the analogies, because the analogies aren't the thing itself. Yet if we have to define these words uniquely for this example, then again, the words lose meaning. If we can't use these words here as we would use them elsewhere, how do we know what the words mean? |
Just because someone who wants to say they are not a part of each other labels it as prerequisite does not make it a lost cause to suggest that they are part of each other.
It is not a lacking of understanding the meaning of words nor of being capable of handling such concepts.
It is a disagreement of the strict usage of one without the possibility of the other.
Anyway, I had some extra time to waste on this, but... I do not feel swayed one bit that the content was not part of the expansion. And that is fine. I have no problem how others want to see it. I only brought it up because people were saying it was wrong to see the content as part of the expansion. And I see that as wrong. It is completely justified to consider it part of it.
How about we just agree on "they are tied to each other"?
Not that we have to agree at all.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Next time we see each other... don't hold my opinion on this against me. And I won't hold yours against you. All is okay in the world (well, this tiny, insignificant aspect of the world, at least, hehe).
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
A prerequisite may be like a segment of a line, that is still a part of the greater whole.
Just because someone who wants to say they are not a part of each other labels it as prerequisite does not make it a lost cause to suggest that they are part of each other. It is not a lacking of understanding the meaning of words nor of being capable of handling such concepts. It is a disagreement of the strict usage of one without the possibility of the other. |
It doesn't lie on the line, it lies outside it. They are not one, man...
Just because you want to say that they are one and the same does not change, like, reality, man...
If it is not a lack of understanding, then what is it?
How can you disagree that Incarnates were released with I19 as part of the greater City of * franchise, and that they tied the system to a substantive monetary purchase which was, hitherto, entirely unrelated to the content released with I19? That is exactly what they did.
And now, instead of tying the content to that purchase, it's been redeployed to part of the VIP package.
It. Was. Never. Part. Of. GR.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
Or being a Hero is a prerequisite to becoming a Vigilante.
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If you never become a Villain, your Hero cannot become a Rogue. Likewise, if you never become a Hero, your Villain cannot become a Vigilante.
Hero <-> Vigilante -> Villain <-> Rogue -> Hero
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
No, being a Hero is prereq for Vig. Being a Villain is a prereq for Rogue.
If you never become a Villain, your Hero cannot become a Rogue. Likewise, if you never become a Hero, your Villain cannot become a Vigilante. Hero <-> Vigilante -> Villain <-> Rogue -> Hero |
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
Dear lord, this isn't a discussion about premium players. It's a hand-grenade!
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On second thought it is about 920 posts to late to do that. Oh well just post something random then.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Are saying that it is wrong to say that the Super Tailor was part of the Science Booster?
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Quoting from the COH website announcement of the Science booster.
But there's more! The Super Tailor is a new Tailor NPC called the Cosmetic Surgeon, located near existing Tailors and enabled through purchase of Super Booster III: Superscience. The Cosmetic Surgeon can modify your character's height, build, body type, and even gender in each of your costume slots. Transform from a 98-pound weakling into a huge beast! Experience spontaneous gender reversal! These amazing things are possible with--science! |
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Actually, the Dev's have done that regularly over the last 5 years, it was called villain content. And that was absolutely part of CoV.
Additionally, I would consider First Ward part of GR. As this is an MMO items are added which require you to have unlocked access to different parts of the game. Incarnate content required you to have access to GR, as does First Ward. |
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
No, being a Hero is prereq for Vig. Being a Villain is a prereq for Rogue.
If you never become a Villain, your Hero cannot become a Rogue. Likewise, if you never become a Hero, your Villain cannot become a Vigilante. Hero <-> Vigilante -> Villain <-> Rogue -> Hero |
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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So what happens if I sell you a new expansion that requires a prior expansion? Is my new expansion "part of" the old one? Are the features of my new expansion "included" in the fact that you bought the previous one?
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Nothing has changed for Incarnate content, they are making it still require both Preq.
If it makes you feel any better, the first analogy that came to mind was going to be a caulk gun.
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And EK - Vaporware refers to software that never materializes. THe most well known example (until recent events) was Duke Nukem Forever
Also, each "Issue" is an expansion. GR required Issue 17. Therefore, by your reasoning, we should not have needed to pay for it because it is part of Issue 17.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Here is the thing:
It doesn't matter.
Just for the sake of the argument, let's say that the camp that says, "Incarnates are part of GR" are right.
Nothing changes.
Everyone who bought GR still has the same access to Incarnates that they have always had, whether VIP (has a subscription) or Premium (needs a subscription).
The only people whose access has changed is people who never bought GR. Their situation has improved.
If you are saying that Incarnate content should NOT require a subscription, then that is a completely seperate argument.
If you are just trying to convince a bunch of people on the Internet that they are wrong, well, good luck.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Here is the thing:
It doesn't matter. Just for the sake of the argument, let's say that the camp that says, "Incarnates are part of GR" are right. Nothing changes. Everyone who bought GR still has the same access to Incarnates that they have always had, whether VIP (has a subscription) or Premium (needs a subscription). The only people whose access has changed is people who never bought GR. Their situation has improved. If you are saying that Incarnate content should NOT require a subscription, then that is a completely seperate argument. If you are just trying to convince a bunch of people on the Internet that they are wrong, well, good luck. |
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion I am the only player who bought GR because it was, you know, an expansion to the game I loved. Period. I never gave a flip about Incarnates. The Incarnate System sounded - still does, for that matter - too much like WoW-style raiding for me to want to spend much time on it. I bought GR for Praetoria, and side switching, and new costumes and power sets and all the cool, neat things that come with an expansion. Incarnates were the least part of it.
Personally, I'm staying VIP on both my accounts. I have paid a subscription for over six years so that I would have access to everything the game had to offer, and I plan to continue doing so. I don't want to run up against any walls blocking my way. That was worth $15 a month before, and it's worth $15 now. |
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
I continue to pay because there is still value in the game for me. It's still well worth the $15.00 a month to have access to everything, not to mention that I like financially supporting things I enjoy. That's why I donate to public radio and purchase my music.
@Arwen Darkblade
Proud Member of Hammer of the Gods and Sanguine Syndicate
Arc ID #86194 "Cry Havoc"
Arc ID #103934 "Dr. Thomas' First Day"
[URL="http://tobyfife.blogspot.com/"]Hero Girl[/URL] - my geek culture blog
After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion I am the only player who bought GR because it was, you know, an expansion to the game I loved. Period. I never gave a flip about Incarnates. The Incarnate System sounded - still does, for that matter - too much like WoW-style raiding for me to want to spend much time on it.
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[*] The crown was in a checkout lane. I don't remember what it cost.
...and if you tell me there is a new expansion for a game I play, I usually buy it before I remember to ask what it does.
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Also, I once impulse bought a dog. Eleven years later, he's still my baby.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
@Arwen Darkblade
Proud Member of Hammer of the Gods and Sanguine Syndicate
Arc ID #86194 "Cry Havoc"
Arc ID #103934 "Dr. Thomas' First Day"
[URL="http://tobyfife.blogspot.com/"]Hero Girl[/URL] - my geek culture blog
"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."
Anyway, I had some extra time to waste on this, but... I do not feel swayed one bit that the content was not part of the expansion. And that is fine. I have no problem how others want to see it. I only brought it up because people were saying it was wrong to see the content as part of the expansion. And I see that as wrong. It is completely justified to consider it part of it.
How about we just agree on "they are tied to each other"? Not that we have to agree at all. ![]() |
Any more than that is assumptions, opinion, and entitlement, wouldn't you say?
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
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Fighting The Future Trilogy
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![](http://avatars.cohtitan.com/signatures/cgt/u900.png)
One for huge amounts, the other for almost nothing. Just be sure to get New ones, the used are useless.
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I've seen other MMO's collector's editions selling for $200, $400, and even $2,500 on Amazon.
Who was that genius that decided that you can't roll for mission architect tickets at tier lvl 4.
For a premium account it says you have access to auction house and MT rewards and yes you will get exp & tickets.
However if you try to buy(roll) with your tickets salvage/recipes you can't because you need a Invention License!
C'mon you can sell/buy IOs on the AH but you can't turn MT tickets into IOs without the 160point/month license.
Disappointed.