Premium Players get less than expected!
Actually that's not what the article says. They talk about one specific publisher. Unless I'm mistaken that article talks about ONE mmo developer. How you got "but the overall revenue per customer will drop. That is the trend that exists in most F2P games" is beyond me.
A trend requires more than one data point to show. |
I already posted them, but just in case I came across as blahblahblah...
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It was on sale for 4 months with the Alpha slot as an advertised feature.
The pre purchase for GR started in March, Alpha slot didn't get removed from Beta until July.
It was on sale for 4 months with the Alpha slot as an advertised feature. |
So basically it's all as clear as mud.
Blue
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The pre purchase for GR started in March, Alpha slot didn't get removed from Beta until July.
It was on sale for 4 months with the Alpha slot as an advertised feature. |
It still does not change the fact that it did not ship with Incarnate content included.
People had ample time to cancel their purchases. Yet they didn't. Possibly because there were other worthwhile things in the expansion?
The pre purchase for GR started in March, Alpha slot didn't get removed from Beta until July.
It was on sale for 4 months with the Alpha slot as an advertised feature. |
It was also on sale the entire time as a game you had to pay a subscription fee to access. But by all means continue to ignore this fairly critical point.
So I've got a question only partially related to this, are premium accounts active or is still only VIP access only?
I know, seems silly but the OP's thread seems to indicate premium players can play the game yet when my brother tries to log on it steers him right to his account and asks if he wants to upgrade to a VIP account with no other option.
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So I've got a question only partially related to this, are premium accounts active or is still only VIP access only?
I know, seems silly but the OP's thread seems to indicate premium players can play the game yet when my brother tries to log on it steers him right to his account and asks if he wants to upgrade to a VIP account with no other option. |
How long it takes them to enable all inactive accounts well I can't say but around when Freedom officially launches would be a good bet.
So I've got a question only partially related to this, are premium accounts active or is still only VIP access only?
I know, seems silly but the OP's thread seems to indicate premium players can play the game yet when my brother tries to log on it steers him right to his account and asks if he wants to upgrade to a VIP account with no other option. |
Bring on the wall!!!!
![](http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9729/loyalistsig6.png)
So I've got a question only partially related to this, are premium accounts active or is still only VIP access only?
I know, seems silly but the OP's thread seems to indicate premium players can play the game yet when my brother tries to log on it steers him right to his account and asks if he wants to upgrade to a VIP account with no other option. |
They're phasing in inactive accounts over time until the official launch
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They are currently, slowly activating all old accounts. Your brother's may not have been activated yet. Tuesday, from what I understand is launch day.
Annnnd the Pax presentation slides show that Incarnates is i19 and a "taste" will be in GR. This means it was a feature for a future update that we were to get an example of in the expansion. It did not mean it was part of the expansion itself but rather a sneak peak.
I really don't see the issue here. The system was never built so you could have access to everything without a sub. They stated, time and again, there would be no lifetime sub or equivalent. What would it be like if you they didn't decide to go to this hybrid model? You would still be paying a monthly to support a game you love. Why not simply continue the sub and let this rest?
I never intended to step down. I'm very happy with VIP and what I get versus someone who doesn't pay a monthly. I'm a prime example of what a monthly sub is. If you don't want to pay a monthly you should not be upset that those of us that choose to do so are obtaining something premiums can never obtain.
If they ever bow down to this do not expect to get anything beyond Alpha and the ability to form it with shards (not threads.) No Incarnate trials were released with GR or even hinted, so Premiums, no matter how thick the argument, should have zero access to such. However, I truly do not think anything was misrepresented just people are now upset they can't play everything for free.
For the hoards of TL/DR people:
Quote:
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Basically: You are doing it wrong.
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You're right, it is a wide leap of logic. But not the one you seem to think it was, since you had to have an active subscription in addition to having bought GR.
Now you only need an active subscription. |
Never at any point have we been able to access Incarnate content without an active subscription. That has not changed in the slightest. Just because you can play other parts of the game without having a subscription does NOT mean you are entitled to play ALL of the game without one.
It's much like having a cell phone. Just because you bought a phone doesn't mean you get
to use it for free. You still have to pay your bill.
Going Rogue was a purchase, that much is true. But when you bought it, were you permitted to use it without having an active game subscription? No?
If you paid for it separately, you are permitted to access PART of it for free. Which is a far cry from a few months ago, when you had access to nothing without a subscription.
And now, because you can use other stuff without a subscription you think you should be able to use all of it without one.
You want to talk about the devs spitting on your loyalty. What about YOU spitting on THEIR loyalty to US by telling them they have to give you everything you want for free? They've busted their butts working on a game for an ungrateful, greedy bunch of people, and now you think they should work just as hard for the benefit of people who aren't giving them squat in return.
Right.
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
It still does not change the fact that it did not ship with Incarnate content included.
People had ample time to cancel their purchases. Yet they didn't. Possibly because there were other worthwhile things in the expansion? |
I'm EU, I prepurchased as soon as I could, based on side switching and wanting early access to dual pistols. At that time i don't remember anything anbout incarnated being talked of as an upcomming posibility. After My prepurchase there was something about an intro to incarnates, and then it was removed.
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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The pre purchase for GR started in March, Alpha slot didn't get removed from Beta until July.
It was on sale for 4 months with the Alpha slot as an advertised feature. |
Therefore your position is without merit.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
some interesting posts found here:
http://boards.coh.com/showthread.php?p=3585644
Like this...
"Now, yes, the Incarnate System was created with Going Rogue in mind, and the developers did make an intentional decision to make the Incarnate content only available to purchasers of the expansion. However, the implementation of the end-game system was only determined after players had already been informed about what Going Rogue would contain... in March 2010: http://goingrogue.na.cityofheroes.com/en/2010/03/"
written by: je saist
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Riiiiiight. So the MMO you previously subscribed to is now allowing you to come back and continue playing *without* having to pay anything and you're ******** that they're not giving you all the stuff you used to have when you *were* paying them?
People truly astonish me sometimes. |
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
Yeah, heaven forfend anyone think that literally years of loyally subbing to a game - with real money, no less - entitles them to a few perks. That kinda thinking has to stop and the sooner the better! *facepalm*
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Now on my second account, it doesn't have as many perks, because it only has a few months of subscription time. And as a Premium, it will not get the same kind of perks as my active account. And that seems to be working pretty much the way they want. If I want more perks for that account, that account has to spend money. The same way my main account got those perks.
Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
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You obviously fail drastically at reading, or did you simply choose to ignore the comments from other publishers below that article
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The data in there does not a trend make.
I don't consider stuff like Zynga to be relevant to discussion at hand.
They don't make mmos.
the ones that have gone free to play recently would need to put up their data to show that their overall revenue decreased.
And since every day more and more mmos are going to a hybrid F2p model, I think your assertion that the trend is to make less money with them, is FALSE.
EDIT: Also this post from one of the people there, speaks VOLUMES:
These numbers are meaningless as you can't compare most games directly. There are many types of F2P games: session-based games, standalone social worlds, mmorpg games with item malls, mmorpg games with single virtual currencies. All of them have different values, be it ARPU, ARPPU, active to regs, price of reg, retention, etc. Then you start taking into account other things, well... There's number of online players per game. Is it per server or per shard? Or total? Peak or average? Does your peak and average includes actives and fresh new regs as well? Active players - is it 2 weeks old number or 1 month old? Regs - do you purge db or not, etc? How old is your game? What is your active churn rate, how often updates are pulled in, session time, etcetc. And then the biggest question - WHAT IS YOUR USER COST. I could go on and on, but it all doesn't make sense, you can't compare apples to oranges, unless you are really comparing 2 equal games, e.g. both are MMORPG games with real F2P (no premium features, players could earn all money without paying) in the same region (as ARPU between Germany and China will fluctuate by tens of percents for the same game after a year of running). And then it comes to the science of game design to determine the reason of the higher/lower ARPU. F2P game revenue evaluation is a science where you should evaluate layers of profits inside the game and really know what you are talking about. Now, spend 5 days playing 50 different mmo games and filter out 10 money-worthy out of them ![]() |
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some interesting posts found here:
http://boards.coh.com/showthread.php?p=3585644 Like this... "Now, yes, the Incarnate System was created with Going Rogue in mind, and the developers did make an intentional decision to make the Incarnate content only available to purchasers of the expansion. However, the implementation of the end-game system was only determined after players had already been informed about what Going Rogue would contain... in March 2010: http://goingrogue.na.cityofheroes.com/en/2010/03/" written by: je saist |
Anyways I commented on this particular subject earlier in this thread: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=141
rom all outside perspectives the Incarnate System has been advertised since it's public inception as part of the Going Rogue system that was gated behind a purchase of Going Rogue. You had to Buy Going Rogue to get Incarnate Access. That Incarnates were never part of the retail release is immaterial. You still needed to purchase Going Rogue for access, making Incarnates part of the Issue System going forward for the Going Rogue expansion. |
There is also the less that subtle marketing positioning found here: goingrogue.na.cityofheroes.com/en/game-info/incarnates/overview.html Whether NCSoft likes it or not Paragon Studios was pretty explicit about promoting the Incarnate system THROUGH the Going Rogue expansion. Paragon Studio's own website demonstrates this marketing positioning.
This is kind of where we get into a sticky positioning of how MMO content works: At what point is Content associated with what a player has paid for?
For City of Heroes: Freedom it appears that NCSoft has decided to distribute content based on retail packages alone rather than following issue updates. As such the Incarnate System has been decoupled from the Going Rogue purchase requirement and made fully part of the Subscription requirement. Like-wise the Architect Entertainment system has been decoupled from it's retail box association, although unlike the Incarnate System, the AE was never placed behind a separate paywall.
On a personal level I do not agree with this positioning of game content taken by NCSoft. My own personal opinion is that NCSoft missed a perfect marketing opportunity with the Incarnate System, which I also already addressed in other comments in this thread: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showpost.php?p=3895925&postcount=146
Premiums who bought Going Rogue Retail: note: retail, not Paragon Market version
This also locks future Incarnate content, such as the Battalion, behind the paywall, at a point when Incarnate Content would likely be separated from Going Rogue content. |
Additionally it would let players who were convinced that Incarnate Content was part of Going Rogue retail release, a perception influenced by the placing of Incarnate Content behind the Going Rogue Retail paywall, feel they had gotten a bit more value for their money. Ultimately it wouldn't cost NCSoft any more additional resources outside of setting up the data-base to recognize the difference between Going Rogue retail codes and Going Rogue: Paragon Market.
That being said I still favor the idea of putting at least some Incarnate Access behind a Veteran / Paragon Rewards wall. For me it comes back down to marketing 101 which I'm not sure NCSoft has a strict handle on.
The marketing reality is that an invisible, and inaccessible, Incarnate System won't matter to Premium Players. Yes, Premium Players will see VIPS wandering around with Alpha Slots, Lore Pets, Interface Boosts, and Judgement Nukes, but one of the biggest draws in F2P games is letting players experience the game-play.
The marketing reality is that very few players are going to look at a subscription and try it for the Incarnate Content. Why do I say this with such conviction?
Well, keep in mind something Blizzard once admitted about WoW: kotaku.com/5469238/most-new-world-of-warcraft-players-dont-go-past-level-10
The website link pretty much spells that point out. Now combine it with something that was said during Issue 17 testing. I can't find a red name quote so here's something from Fleeting Whisper: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...9&postcount=12
Datamining shows otherwise. The number of players with access to either Arachnos Soldiers or Kheldians is a small fraction of the number of players who do not, whether because the player is new or because they succumb to altitis. This is also why the EATs have traditionally been a low-priority item for development, and why the devs vowed to never again make an EAT unlock with a level 50 after they created the SoA -- too few people actually unlock them. |
Ergo, what is the logical conclusion?
Oh yeah, that's right: Less and Less people are going to be running Incarnate Content. This is highlighted by another quote from Mr. Miller: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=312
Also note: Solo Path does not equal "at the same rate as those who do Trials". Those players will ALWAYS advance through the system faster. Otherwise the Trails will shrivel up and die, and those people who (gasp) like them will never get a chance to run them. |
- Empirical evidence says that very few of the incoming Premium Players will hit level 50.
- Empirical evidence says that even fewer of the incoming Premium Players will be interested enough to invest in a subscription.
- Empirical evidence suggests that future content will lesson the ability for existing subscribers to play existing content
LOCKING INCARNATE CONTENT BEHIND A SUBSCRIPTION WALL IS A FREAKING BAD IDEA.
Okay, in all fairness, maybe I am overthinking the implications of the hybrid F2P model City of Heroes has right now.
Maybe I am seeing "Doom and Gloom (tm)" where there is none.
Or maybe, just maybe, I've actually bothered to think the implications of the marketing positioning of the game out based on available marketing data... something that all existing empirical evidence (e.g. the Paragon Market) indicates NCSoft hasn't done at all.
If there is nothing gated behind a subscription that can't be bought with a one time purchase, there is absolutely no reason to have a subscription. You pay a big chunk, then you have everything you'd have if you payed monthly. Do you know what that means?
It means that Paragon Studios has a lot of money to develop the game with at the start, then has much, much less and no constant stream of revenue. Do you know what that means?
It means less development, less new gameplay mechanics, less content, and eventually, no game to complain about not wanting gated content in.
I'd rather have certain content gated behind the VIP branch than mess with chaotic revenue income.
What do we get when we add all of this up?
LOCKING INCARNATE CONTENT BEHIND A SUBSCRIPTION WALL IS THE ONLY SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS PLAN. |
Current subscribers would have little to no reason to continue subscribing if the incarnate content was not behind a subscription wall.
Where to now?
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
Fix'd that for you.
Current subscribers would have little to no reason to continue subscribing if the incarnate content was not behind a subscription wall. |
This is the difference here. Obviously it would be ridiculous to give everyone access to everything for free. However, the assertion that allowing access to everything at a price would cause all subs to disappear is completely unfounded. In fact we have seen numerous times that MMOs that have adopted this model have continued to hold subscriptions quite well.
VIPs would still subscribe because of character slots, limits on inf and inventory, free points and free access to story arcs and powersets. They would still sub because they get numerous perks. Now yes, there would be some people who would pay a large sum of money in order to keep everything they have now and play for "free", but this is akin to the way lifetime subscriptions work (although more limited in that they would have to buy future content).
There is absolutely no reason to assume that just because access to the high end gameplay is allowed to be bought means that the game would collapse with people leaving. And as I said earlier there are many reasons to assume it wouldn't.
Don't take rocket science to figure that out.
I NEVER take what the devs say before something hits beta as gospel, as anything and everything are subject to change during BETA.
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