Premium Players get less than expected!

Good policy, as what's pushed to live trumps what's going on during beta trumps what's said by a dev during a marketing demonstration.

Don't take rocket science to figure that out.

I NEVER take what the devs say before something hits beta as gospel, as anything and everything are subject to change during BETA.

You obviously fail drastically at reading, or did you simply choose to ignore the comments from other publishers below that article

The pre purchase for GR started in March, Alpha slot didn't get removed from Beta until July.

It was on sale for 4 months with the Alpha slot as an advertised feature.

But no one has has been able to provide any other evidence of that than the PAX presentation. The boxed sets don't say it. I have two of them right here. The internet archive of the online store page doesn't say it. So where was it "advertised"? The only other place I've seen is the GR page with Incarnate info, which also has info about slots that Posi's presentation state were never going to be included in GR.

So basically it's all as clear as mud.

It still does not change the fact that it did not ship with Incarnate content included.

People had ample time to cancel their purchases. Yet they didn't. Possibly because there were other worthwhile things in the expansion?

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

It was also on sale the entire time as a game you had to pay a subscription fee to access. But by all means continue to ignore this fairly critical point.

They have been slowly turning on inactive accounts a little bit at a time. My one friend had his inactive account start working 2 days ago so I can for 100% that some premium have indeed been able to play.

How long it takes them to enable all inactive accounts well I can't say but around when Freedom officially launches would be a good bet.

I was able to access my premium account, I think they are slowly opening them all up, just tell your brother to keep trying from time to time.

They're phasing in inactive accounts over time until the official launch

No, you are asking the wrong people to prove things. The people you NEED to ask to prove their position are the people claiming that the Incarnate System was included. And when people are showing that all documentation points to the exact opposite, you are claiming that it "isn't enough". At that point you step beyond expressing curiosity and cross the line to accusing the people trying to show that all the documentation points the other way are being false.

Basically: You are doing it wrong.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

This is the important point here.

Never at any point have we been able to access Incarnate content without an active subscription. That has not changed in the slightest. Just because you can play other parts of the game without having a subscription does NOT mean you are entitled to play ALL of the game without one.

It's much like having a cell phone. Just because you bought a phone doesn't mean you get
to use it for free. You still have to pay your bill.

Going Rogue was a purchase, that much is true. But when you bought it, were you permitted to use it without having an active game subscription? No?

If you paid for it separately, you are permitted to access PART of it for free. Which is a far cry from a few months ago, when you had access to nothing without a subscription.

And now, because you can use other stuff without a subscription you think you should be able to use all of it without one.

You want to talk about the devs spitting on your loyalty. What about YOU spitting on THEIR loyalty to US by telling them they have to give you everything you want for free? They've busted their butts working on a game for an ungrateful, greedy bunch of people, and now you think they should work just as hard for the benefit of people who aren't giving them squat in return.

Right.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Actually, no they didn't, it was a pre purchase not a pre order. The money was taken at the time so there was nothing to cancel. Still doesn't change the fact that Pre purchases started just prior to beta and anyone doing so should realise that anything in beta may not make it to the final product.

I'm EU, I prepurchased as soon as I could, based on side switching and wanting early access to dual pistols. At that time i don't remember anything anbout incarnated being talked of as an upcomming posibility. After My prepurchase there was something about an intro to incarnates, and then it was removed.

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

The Going Rogue pre-purchase was announced 1 month before the Incarnates were announced in the PAX video. Given that the Pax Panel announced the Incarnate System, that means logically that the Incarnate System could not be a selling point for the pre-purchase. It also means that I can say with certainty that the pre-purchase store listing did not include the Incarnate System.

Therefore your position is without merit.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

Someone already said what I was going to say. There must be some way I can express this.

I have found that I have received many perks for my many years of subscribing to this game. And I even used real money for those years of subscription. I will continue to get more perks for subscribing rather than dropping to Premium. So I guess the company has that idea down pretty well.

Now on my second account, it doesn't have as many perks, because it only has a few months of subscription time. And as a Premium, it will not get the same kind of perks as my active account. And that seems to be working pretty much the way they want. If I want more perks for that account, that account has to spend money. The same way my main account got those perks.

When I see FINANCIAL info from actually RELEVANT MMO publishers then we can talk. until then useless article.

The data in there does not a trend make.

I don't consider stuff like Zynga to be relevant to discussion at hand.
They don't make mmos.

the ones that have gone free to play recently would need to put up their data to show that their overall revenue decreased.

And since every day more and more mmos are going to a hybrid F2p model, I think your assertion that the trend is to make less money with them, is FALSE.

EDIT: Also this post from one of the people there, speaks VOLUMES:

As I stated, more DATA needed before ANYONE can assert trends about Hybrid F2P or even F2P models.

Heh, a lot of players on this board don't care for what I have to say, most likely because of jealousy. Either that or my style of covering every single little detail in long-drawn out posts leaving no room for any counter-argument just invites players looking for every tiny in-accuracy they can find just so they can throw insults and feel better about themselves.

Anyways I commented on this particular subject earlier in this thread: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=141

As far as several players on these forums are concerned they were forced to buy Going Rogue in order to unlock Incarnate Access. To those players it does not matter that Incarnate Content was never part of the Going Rogue retail release. All that matters is that Incarnate Content was placed behind a paywall.

There is also the less that subtle marketing positioning found here: goingrogue.na.cityofheroes.com/en/game-info/incarnates/overview.html Whether NCSoft likes it or not Paragon Studios was pretty explicit about promoting the Incarnate system THROUGH the Going Rogue expansion. Paragon Studio's own website demonstrates this marketing positioning.

This is kind of where we get into a sticky positioning of how MMO content works: At what point is Content associated with what a player has paid for?

For City of Heroes: Freedom it appears that NCSoft has decided to distribute content based on retail packages alone rather than following issue updates. As such the Incarnate System has been decoupled from the Going Rogue purchase requirement and made fully part of the Subscription requirement. Like-wise the Architect Entertainment system has been decoupled from it's retail box association, although unlike the Incarnate System, the AE was never placed behind a separate paywall.

On a personal level I do not agree with this positioning of game content taken by NCSoft. My own personal opinion is that NCSoft missed a perfect marketing opportunity with the Incarnate System, which I also already addressed in other comments in this thread: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showpost.php?p=3895925&postcount=146

This particular marketing move would encourage players to buy up remaining boxed copies of Going Rogue for the retail codes, which would be nothing but gravy for NCSoft.

Additionally it would let players who were convinced that Incarnate Content was part of Going Rogue retail release, a perception influenced by the placing of Incarnate Content behind the Going Rogue Retail paywall, feel they had gotten a bit more value for their money. Ultimately it wouldn't cost NCSoft any more additional resources outside of setting up the data-base to recognize the difference between Going Rogue retail codes and Going Rogue: Paragon Market.


That being said I still favor the idea of putting at least some Incarnate Access behind a Veteran / Paragon Rewards wall. For me it comes back down to marketing 101 which I'm not sure NCSoft has a strict handle on.

The marketing reality is that an invisible, and inaccessible, Incarnate System won't matter to Premium Players. Yes, Premium Players will see VIPS wandering around with Alpha Slots, Lore Pets, Interface Boosts, and Judgement Nukes, but one of the biggest draws in F2P games is letting players experience the game-play.

The marketing reality is that very few players are going to look at a subscription and try it for the Incarnate Content. Why do I say this with such conviction?

Well, keep in mind something Blizzard once admitted about WoW: kotaku.com/5469238/most-new-world-of-warcraft-players-dont-go-past-level-10

The website link pretty much spells that point out. Now combine it with something that was said during Issue 17 testing. I can't find a red name quote so here's something from Fleeting Whisper: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...9&postcount=12

Based not just on the performance of other games but on the past history performance of this game alone, a large number of players are probably not going to hit level 50. Based on the performance of other games among those that do hit level 50 only a fraction will actually become subscribers. Based on the performance of this game alone not all of those subscribed 50's are going to take part in Incarnate Content.

Ergo, what is the logical conclusion?

Oh yeah, that's right: Less and Less people are going to be running Incarnate Content. This is highlighted by another quote from Mr. Miller: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=312

So, in the style of Nash's WTFIWWY let's do the math:

• Empirical evidence says that very few of the incoming Premium Players will hit level 50.
• Empirical evidence says that even fewer of the incoming Premium Players will be interested enough to invest in a subscription.
• Empirical evidence suggests that future content will lesson the ability for existing subscribers to play existing content

What do we get when we add all of this up?

LOCKING INCARNATE CONTENT BEHIND A SUBSCRIPTION WALL IS A FREAKING BAD IDEA.

Okay, in all fairness, maybe I am overthinking the implications of the hybrid F2P model City of Heroes has right now.

Maybe I am seeing "Doom and Gloom (tm)" where there is none.

Or maybe, just maybe, I've actually bothered to think the implications of the marketing positioning of the game out based on available marketing data... something that all existing empirical evidence (e.g. the Paragon Market) indicates NCSoft hasn't done at all.

Fix'd that for you.

Current subscribers would have little to no reason to continue subscribing if the incarnate content was not behind a subscription wall.

She said "that's not what the article says". Now you're talking about the comments, not the article itself. And you insult her reading skills?

I'm sure it has nothing to do with arrogance.

I try and stay out of these arguments because, as a person who typically plays as a premium member, I feel that I am happy with what I am able to do. However, this is just nonsense. Every MMO that has adopted this F2P model have done similar things. They have slight variations, but what it normally comes down to is you can't access XYZ which will allow you to participate in the higher end content unless you are a VIP OR you pay us.

This is the difference here. Obviously it would be ridiculous to give everyone access to everything for free. However, the assertion that allowing access to everything at a price would cause all subs to disappear is completely unfounded. In fact we have seen numerous times that MMOs that have adopted this model have continued to hold subscriptions quite well.

VIPs would still subscribe because of character slots, limits on inf and inventory, free points and free access to story arcs and powersets. They would still sub because they get numerous perks. Now yes, there would be some people who would pay a large sum of money in order to keep everything they have now and play for "free", but this is akin to the way lifetime subscriptions work (although more limited in that they would have to buy future content).

There is absolutely no reason to assume that just because access to the high end gameplay is allowed to be bought means that the game would collapse with people leaving. And as I said earlier there are many reasons to assume it wouldn't.