Premium Players get less than expected!
No, it's not incorrect. I said, an I quote...
Critical words bolded for emphasis. People have produced evidence. If you can produce anyone with stills or recordings of that video you're referring to, you would have produced evidence, too. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt about the video claim being accurate, I still consider the balance of the evidence to come down on the side that, in terms of what is actually promised as part of the GR product, Incarnates is not there. What's promised is the feature list on the formal documentation, not what someone says in a presentation during beta. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT9O0...525&lf=mh_lolz
check the video at around 6:40
Positron's presentation at PAX.
Is your position actually that Premium players who PAID, please note that word *PAID* for GR and recieved Incarnate access like we did in the good old days [when you paid for GR = Incarnate access] - that those who PAID would all cancel their subs en masse as a result, and this would cause the game to fail?
Are you serious? Because that looks like a pretty wide leap of logic to me. But ok. I guess. ![]() |
As has been shown repeatedly in this thread Incarnates weren't a part of GR.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Actually, the Hybrid model they are using here is pretty unique. Traditionally, you are capable of buying everythign the game has to offer with a lump sum cash spend up which is not the case in CoH.
In the other models, it is those "Free" players who generate the most income, the short time players who spend hundreds of dollars and only play for a couple of months. Subscribers are their bread and butter but Freebies are their Ferraris and Holiday Homes. |
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
As i posted previously
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT9O0...525&lf=mh_lolz check the video at around 6:40 Positron's presentation at PAX. |
And 6:19 it says you get a TASTE of the Incarnate system in GR.
And regardless everything is subject to change in Beta. Which it did.
What we ended up with on live is that the Incarnates were not a part of GR.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Actually, the Hybrid model they are using here is pretty unique. Traditionally, you are capable of buying everythign the game has to offer with a lump sum cash spend up which is not the case in CoH.
In the other models, it is those "Free" players who generate the most income, the short time players who spend hundreds of dollars and only play for a couple of months. Subscribers are their bread and butter but Freebies are their Ferraris and Holiday Homes. |
When I looked over that game's F2P features' list, I considered the no-open-framework-builds thing a deal breaker because it limited my ability even to come back and decide whether I wanted to stay. Combine that with the fact that the other game is much younger than CoH, and that therefore returning players are likely to have fewer developed alts, and it's no contest: the CoH system of try-before-you-(re)-buy is far more effective.
(I'm not familiar enough with some of the more prominent F2P games to understand exactly what is and isn't available to freebie/preebie players, so I'll happily accept your reading of the "traditional" F2P model.)
Incarnates are icing; they happen to be very compelling icing for a lot of hardcore MMOers, but even if you're really into the game you can very easily make do without Incarnates. Even people who really like the end game could plan out dead periods in their subscription during which time they can concentrate on lowbies.
We can sit here and nitpick dev quotes, promotional materials, specific prices on the store, but the over-arching model of Freedom is sound. And generous.
As i posted previously
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT9O0...525&lf=mh_lolz check the video at around 6:40 Positron's presentation at PAX. |
![](http://users.rcn.com/ptous/PAX1.jpg)
![](http://users.rcn.com/ptous/PAX2.jpg)
Issue 19 != Going Rogue.
So I'm afraid my benefit of the doubt doesn't even get to apply.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Actually, the Hybrid model they are using here is pretty unique. Traditionally, you are capable of buying everythign the game has to offer with a lump sum cash spend up which is not the case in CoH.
In the other models, it is those "Free" players who generate the most income, the short time players who spend hundreds of dollars and only play for a couple of months. Subscribers are their bread and butter but Freebies are their Ferraris and Holiday Homes. |
Very informative article here
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...ewards_of_.php
Aura beat me to it. Back up the video a little bit.
Issue 19 != Going Rogue. So I'm afraid my benefit of the doubt doesn't even get to apply. |
I have never argued that it included more than the Alpha slot.
Even if incarnates were part of GR (they weren't) it doesn't matter because they were never for sale without a subscription. Ever. Ever ever. Fishing through conference presentations for a thin shred of evidence is fruitless when right on the box it says that what is being purchased "Requires additional fees to access." It was true then. It is still true. The fact that the fee has been waived for a portion game access does not mean they have to let you into every aspect of the game tangentially related to an expansion pack, for the same reason a ticket to Disney World does not pay for your hotel room or meal at every restaurant in the resort.
And here's a fact about video games, movies, books, and everything kind of media: when you buy them early you are paying for the convenience of having them right away. You do not get a refund on the game you bought for $60 three years ago because it ended up at the bargain bin later for $10. I can understand being frustrated, but in terms of being entitled to anything or having been cheated there is zero ground to stand on.
Actually I think the model here will succeed in increasing the revenue per paying customer, but the overall revenue per customer will drop. That is the trend that exists in most F2P games
Very informative article here http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...ewards_of_.php |
A trend requires more than one data point to show.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I can quite clearly see on those pictures you posted that it states Going Rogue includes one incarnate level.
I have never argued that it included more than the Alpha slot. |
Your point?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I wish they'd reconsider on IOs that you've already bought and slotted on now Premium Accounts...
|
However, as far as opining for a drastic change...I entirely agree with Mr. DJ. There should have been some manner of "forgiveness" or "grace protection" for Premiums with IO builds. Let them function, perhaps, but no longer allow them to be slotted. That way, they stay where they're at unless you mess around with them.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
However, as far as opining for a drastic change...I entirely agree with Mr. DJ. There should have been some manner of "forgiveness" or "grace protection" for Premiums with IO builds. Let them function, perhaps, but no longer allow them to be slotted. That way, they stay where they're at unless you mess around with them. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
As long as people were spending money on the game, who cares if they subscribe? SPENDING MONEY. That is the key concept.
Free players are out in a hinterland of their own making. However Premiums who PAY FOR THINGS should actually go all hog-wild and get what they paid for, capische? Or not....? |
When you spend enough money buying points, you automatically get Reward Tokens toward keeping features unlocked without a subscription.
Now, if the things you've bought are yours forever, without having to spend another dime on them, and you get 100% of the game for free, you will no longer have ANY reason to spend money on the game. If enough people go that route, the game will go the way of the dodo because it is no longer profitable enough for NCSoft to bother keeping the servers active.
THAT is why we aren't getting to keep 100% of the game when we stop paying our subscription. There has to be a reason to keep giving them money, or once everyone has everything they want the game will STOP making money for it's parent company and start actively losing it. Once that happens, we will have no more game to play, free or otherwise.
Why is that so difficult to understand? The devs want to keep enough people subscribed to keep the game afloat once the rush of spending in the Market has died down (in other words, once everyone has all the stuff they want). Making some content VIP only is the only way they can encourage people to remain subscribed once they have all the perks they want permanently unlocked.
Can you HONESTLY say that you would remain a subscriber if you could keep every single thing you have now without paying for it?
I can't. I can't imagine a whole lot of people CAN honestly say they would keep paying while getting no more than someone who is NOT paying.
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
However, as far as opining for a drastic change...I entirely agree with Mr. DJ. There should have been some manner of "forgiveness" or "grace protection" for Premiums with IO builds. Let them function, perhaps, but no longer allow them to be slotted. That way, they stay where they're at unless you mess around with them.
|
This part I can agree with. I wish the IO rules were that you had 30 days to put slots in your characters, not that they totally invalidate outside the license period. I think the current rules are little too harsh (but not a breach of contract or false advertising like some are saying).
I can quite clearly see on those pictures you posted that it states Going Rogue includes one incarnate level.
I have never argued that it included more than the Alpha slot. |
Even that said, I still content that this one slide, given by the company during beta, does not outweigh formal product information from when the product was on actually on (pre) sale. Someone suggested that the EU online store listed Incarnates on the GR pre-release reservation page. If that could be found I would consider that better evidence that what was "promised" ever included Incarnates.
In any case, what was ever promised has to stand up in light of what was actually delivered before CoH:Freedom, which was that GR was mandatory for future access to any Incarnate content. That implementation remains a vague area, and we're simply not going to be able to settle it here. People are going to see it as justifying opposing conclusions, because the implementation just doesn't map well to the idea of "included".
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Even if incarnates were part of GR (they weren't) it doesn't matter because they were never for sale without a subscription. Ever. Ever ever. Fishing through conference presentations for a thin shred of evidence is fruitless when right on the box it says that what is being purchased "Requires additional fees to access." It was true then. It is still true. The fact that the fee has been waived for a portion game access does not mean they have to let you into every aspect of the game tangentially related to an expansion pack, for the same reason a ticket to Disney World does not pay for your hotel room or meal at every restaurant in the resort.
And here's a fact about video games, movies, books, and everything kind of media: when you buy them early you are paying for the convenience of having them right away. You do not get a refund on the game you bought for $60 three years ago because it ended up at the bargain bin later for $10. I can understand being frustrated, but in terms of being entitled to anything or having been cheated there is zero ground to stand on. |
I know I said I was done but wtf ever. Look those pictures posted clearly stated 1 level of incarnates included with GR . What's everyone argument for that?
There should have been some manner of "forgiveness" or "grace protection" for Premiums with IO builds. Let them function, perhaps, but no longer allow them to be slotted. That way, they stay where they're at unless you mess around with them.
|
I also think it would probably make sense to offer a one-time unlock (for a significant chunk of points), but I'm on the fence about it. Set IOs are a strong enough thing for the people that are interested in them that making them into recurring income seems like an awfully smart thing to do.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
That might have something to do with why you're having trouble comprehending it.
|
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Look those pictures posted clearly stated 1 level of incarnates included with GR . What's everyone argument for that?
|
- Presentations during beta are not the same as what's on the box or online store.*
- Even taking it at its face value, it would mean Premiums who bought GR get the Alpha slot. Not the rest of the slots.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I already posted them, but just in case I came across as blahblahblah...
|
You know your absolutely correct no sarcasm. Im just gonna ignore anything the devs say anymore. Period. Save my self the head ache.
Once upon a time you needed to have purchased COV to access villain content. And maintain a subscription of course. Eventually, they got rid of the need to have purchased COV and just required a subscription. How is this different? We used to need GR and now we won't. Just the subscription.