Premium Players get less than expected!

As i posted previously

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT9O0...525&lf=mh_lolz

check the video at around 6:40

Positron's presentation at PAX.

I have no idea what you're talking about as it's never worked like that.

As has been shown repeatedly in this thread Incarnates weren't a part of GR.

Apples and oranges, I'd say. This game has proven to have a fairly loyal subscriber base through the years, and the stated intent of Freedom is to grow that, (as sub fees are a far more stable and reliable income source...shareholders like that) not simply grab money from a high turnover of premiums.

No, start at 6:02. He talks about Incarnates as part of Issue 19. Unless I missed something Issue 19 was NOT GR.

And 6:19 it says you get a TASTE of the Incarnate system in GR.

And regardless everything is subject to change in Beta. Which it did.

What we ended up with on live is that the Incarnates were not a part of GR.

Eh, there is at least one other game where crucial build features are flat-out denied to non-subscribers -- build features that are far more important than Incarnate powers, btw, build features that prevent you from even logging in your old character as a freebie player unless you consent to change the character wholesale.

When I looked over that game's F2P features' list, I considered the no-open-framework-builds thing a deal breaker because it limited my ability even to come back and decide whether I wanted to stay. Combine that with the fact that the other game is much younger than CoH, and that therefore returning players are likely to have fewer developed alts, and it's no contest: the CoH system of try-before-you-(re)-buy is far more effective.

(I'm not familiar enough with some of the more prominent F2P games to understand exactly what is and isn't available to freebie/preebie players, so I'll happily accept your reading of the "traditional" F2P model.)

Incarnates are icing; they happen to be very compelling icing for a lot of hardcore MMOers, but even if you're really into the game you can very easily make do without Incarnates. Even people who really like the end game could plan out dead periods in their subscription during which time they can concentrate on lowbies.

We can sit here and nitpick dev quotes, promotional materials, specific prices on the store, but the over-arching model of Freedom is sound. And generous.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

Aura beat me to it. Back up the video a little bit.





Issue 19 != Going Rogue.

So I'm afraid my benefit of the doubt doesn't even get to apply.

Actually I think the model here will succeed in increasing the revenue per paying customer, but the overall revenue per customer will drop. That is the trend that exists in most F2P games

Very informative article here

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...ewards_of_.php

I can quite clearly see on those pictures you posted that it states Going Rogue includes one incarnate level.

I have never argued that it included more than the Alpha slot.

Actually that's not what the article says. They talk about one specific publisher. Unless I'm mistaken that article talks about ONE mmo developer. How you got "but the overall revenue per customer will drop. That is the trend that exists in most F2P games" is beyond me.

A trend requires more than one data point to show.

Which was changed in beta. so that on live GR included NONE of the Incarnate system.

Your point?

They can change whatever they want about the game. If you're not a paying member, it doesn't matter. What's stopping them from making levels 41-50 VIP only content? Will people wail and gnash their teeth that somehow the last ten levels equate to a breach of content? What the dev's do with meting out content to whoever merits it is their own business. We can discuss it, but we can't simply opine it and expect a drastic change.


However, as far as opining for a drastic change...I entirely agree with Mr. DJ. There should have been some manner of "forgiveness" or "grace protection" for Premiums with IO builds. Let them function, perhaps, but no longer allow them to be slotted. That way, they stay where they're at unless you mess around with them.

I would not have been opposed to this. Especially since it's the only additional "increase in power" that premiums have since Incarnates are not available to them.

Did you not notice the fact that the VAST MAJORITY of the things available in the Paragon Market are one time purchases? As in, you buy them once and you have them forever.

When you spend enough money buying points, you automatically get Reward Tokens toward keeping features unlocked without a subscription.

Now, if the things you've bought are yours forever, without having to spend another dime on them, and you get 100% of the game for free, you will no longer have ANY reason to spend money on the game. If enough people go that route, the game will go the way of the dodo because it is no longer profitable enough for NCSoft to bother keeping the servers active.

THAT is why we aren't getting to keep 100% of the game when we stop paying our subscription. There has to be a reason to keep giving them money, or once everyone has everything they want the game will STOP making money for it's parent company and start actively losing it. Once that happens, we will have no more game to play, free or otherwise.

Why is that so difficult to understand? The devs want to keep enough people subscribed to keep the game afloat once the rush of spending in the Market has died down (in other words, once everyone has all the stuff they want). Making some content VIP only is the only way they can encourage people to remain subscribed once they have all the perks they want permanently unlocked.

Can you HONESTLY say that you would remain a subscriber if you could keep every single thing you have now without paying for it?

I can't. I can't imagine a whole lot of people CAN honestly say they would keep paying while getting no more than someone who is NOT paying.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

This part I can agree with. I wish the IO rules were that you had 30 days to put slots in your characters, not that they totally invalidate outside the license period. I think the current rules are little too harsh (but not a breach of contract or false advertising like some are saying).

You sound like a marketing drone blah blahblah blah blah is all I hear.

In my translation of that "promise" into the CoH:Freedom universe, that would grant non-VIPs the Alpha Slot only. Somehow, I don't think that would quiet this argument down much.

Even that said, I still content that this one slide, given by the company during beta, does not outweigh formal product information from when the product was on actually on (pre) sale. Someone suggested that the EU online store listed Incarnates on the GR pre-release reservation page. If that could be found I would consider that better evidence that what was "promised" ever included Incarnates.

In any case, what was ever promised has to stand up in light of what was actually delivered before CoH:Freedom, which was that GR was mandatory for future access to any Incarnate content. That implementation remains a vague area, and we're simply not going to be able to settle it here. People are going to see it as justifying opposing conclusions, because the implementation just doesn't map well to the idea of "included".

That might have something to do with why you're having trouble comprehending it.

So the Beast pack was never for sale without a sub never ever ever ever. Does that mean that's taken away too?

I know I said I was done but wtf ever. Look those pictures posted clearly stated 1 level of incarnates included with GR . What's everyone argument for that?

I am not a fan of what they did with IOs, and I objected to it on the beta forums during beta. I don't object to any gating of IOs, but I think the gating as implemented both requires too many tiers of Paragon Rewards and also needs to be more granular.

I also think it would probably make sense to offer a one-time unlock (for a significant chunk of points), but I'm on the fence about it. Set IOs are a strong enough thing for the people that are interested in them that making them into recurring income seems like an awfully smart thing to do.

did you read what I quoted it was basically a circle of you crap. You bought X Y and Z not T but only wanted T but you need to pay for X Y Z if you want T. Sorry if that isn't paying for T well I'm ****** LOL

I already posted them, but just in case I came across as blahblahblah...

• Presentations during beta are not the same as what's on the box or online store.*
• Even taking it at its face value, it would mean Premiums who bought GR get the Alpha slot. Not the rest of the slots.

* Anything the devs say about anything that's not out yet is a statement what's planned. It's always subject to change - when evaluating what you're getting you have to look on the box, store, etc. If you don't get that then you have a legitimate gripe.

I read it and it made complete sense to me.

You know your absolutely correct no sarcasm. Im just gonna ignore anything the devs say anymore. Period. Save my self the head ache.