Premium Players get less than expected!

It's called being penny wise dollar foolish. People assume they are saving money when in the long run they are spending more. Add to that the players that gotta have everything now and that's why these hybrid business models are profitable.

God forbid they save money by paying for a sub and accumulating free points.

Nope. They're gonna play for free and impulse buy everything they want ASAP.

Actually that's incorrect

I consider a video of Positron stating at PAX that Going Rogue included the first tier of Incarnate access (which I linked earlier) fairly conclusive proof.

People seem to forget that Going Rogue was on Pre purchase way before it was in stores and it was advertised as including the Incarnate access. Removing it during beta does not negate the fact that by that point they had already sold it with that feature. And it was obviously clearly intended as a Going Rogue feature as they required you to buy GR in order to access Incarnate content.

My contention is therefore that the Alpha slot is clearly part of GR any further Incarnate content was simply the next issue. I have no problem with whatever Paragon want to include as free with the game. i do have a problem with revisionist history being enforced by the blinkered rabid anti-f2p crowd that seems to be building on these forums.

The industry standard assumption is that 90% of F2P players never pay anything.

The hybrid models are successful because the subscribers generally end up paying more money.

[Citation Needed]

85% of statistics are made up on the spot.

You're the one spouting revisionist history.

This gave me a chuckle...

Welcome to the forums, it's not always this bad. Though if you only could have been here during the Jack Emmert Days

This much I find I have to agree with. I preordered with the knowledge that it would include the beginnings of the Incarnate System.

I do not consider any of the additional incarnate content to be part of GR.

I want to be on your side sooo much, i really do.

But i just cannot find *any* information from the InternetArchive which actually states that Incarnate Content was part of Going Rogue...

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=375 (contains archive link of Going Rogue Site from 5th May 2010)

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=398 (contains archive link of Going Rogue Site from 2nd April 2010)

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=403 (contains archive link of Going Rogue Site from 23rd March 2010)

The 1st two links are dated after the PAX video that you linked to, so I find it *incredibly* strange in that an "official" announcement was made, and yet the website didnt add Incarnate Content to the Features List of Going Rogue....

I personally feel that "sneak peaks" are never meant to be "official" anyway, and that stuff can change between the "sneak peak" and the "official release" of the feature... it has happened, and indeed actually happened with the Alpha Slot of all things (in that it wasn't actually included with I18, and only came with I19 due to beta testing feedback)

Trust me, i really do want to believe that Incarnate Content was meant to be fully included with Going Rogue, but even on their initial announcement page they made no mention of it... they mentioned Praetoria, Side Switching, Dual Pistols/Demon Summoning Powers but *no* mention of Incarnates... if it was meant to be a part of Going Rogue, you would think they would have actually mentioned it on the "Features" list of Going Rogue. It was only in July when Positron said that the "Sneak peek" of Incarnates would be pulled from I18 (Going Rogue Issue Number).

As i said, i *really* would love at least *some* form of incarnate content to be released to Premium/Free players (the 1st 2 tiers of Alpha Slot, what eventually was released initially with the "Sneak Peek" of Incarnates)

But saying (or at least inferring) that the whole Incarnate System should be included for free... well lets just say that there would be no point in subscribing back to the game for those who bought Going Rogue...

Prior to freedom if you didn't pay you couldn't play AT ALL... I fail to see the problem

This sums up my stance nicely.

If everything is free, and you lose nothing, there is no reason at all to keep spending money on the game.

If no one is spending money on the game because it's all free, how long will we still have a game to play?

NCSoft is not at all shy about canning unprofitable games, they've dumped 3 of them in the last few years. If no one is giving them money for CoH, and Coh starts costing them more than it's bringing in, the game will be shown the door in a hurry.

Basically, the people complaining that they can't keep everything when they stop paying their subscription are being remarkably short-sighted.

No one pays = no more game. Then you won't be playing anything at all for free because it will have ceased to exist.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C

Every time before I post.

Every single time.

Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C

They don't want us to stop subscribing, so premium will never get everything that VIP have.

And it doesn't mater what is written on boxes or notifications. If you become premium you will keep some thing you have payed for - and it is said what you get to keep depending of how much time you have spent paying for game.

It is still much better deal than we had before - no subscription NO GAME at all.

On Good vs. Evil box (one I have) is written that box includes 12 character slots per server - but also that game needs subscription. Even if on GR box is written that it includes incarnates (don't have box because it was never made for EU) it still says that game needs subscription. So no subscription - no incarnates.

Premium players are still treated better then f2p - they could just say if you go premium you get same thing as f2p - 2 slots and basic game no mater what you have bought, everything else you can get back when you subscribe again.

I still don't like that VIP have to pay for new power sets, even with free points I think that is the thing subscription should cover.

- Il Numero Uno (The Number One)

You know, I forgot about that, the pre-purchasers who at the time were under the impression that GR meant Incarnate access and I was a pre-purchaser.

However, still don't see any problems with keeping the Premium players locked out of the Incarnate content. They're being allowed to play for free, that wasn't an option before.

If you want Incarnate access, sub up.

That, that right there is /thread.

You can still pay for a month, get 400pp and use that points to pay for IO license for next two free months.

- Il Numero Uno (The Number One)

Amazing. See, what apologists are missing is that people like me were already spending money to bring our second accounts up to speed. Operative word: WERE.

But since buying GR anyways now denies Premium players the main point of GR - the Incarnate system - that's money that the game wont be getting out of me.

I have no incentive to spend money on stuff that might be arbitrarily redacted at any moment, i.e. GR no longer = access to Incarnate content today - who knows what else tomorrow? [And despite the metric crapton of backpedaling I see here, back in the day if you didn't have GR = no Incarnate access.]

People with this mindset will end up costing the game money.

Silly me, I had this idea that my having maintained a VIP account for almost 6 years meant that my secondary account might get a perk or two along the way. Thank goodness I now know differently.

Very silly, as I don't know where this was stated when Freedom was announced. Each account is independent of the other.

That's like saying that perks from a 7 year account should transfer to something that was just made 3-4 months ago.

People with this mindset will end up costing the game money.

FYI, I recently got a 2nd account in early September. I'm maintaining that as a premium and getting various perks for it via points, purchase here and there.

So I'm giving the game more money.

I doubt I'm the only one doing this.

EDIT: Also they've stated for MONTHS that Incarnates would ONLY be available to VIPs.

To gain Incarnate access you needed two things "back in the day" : GR Access and to pay a sub.


Now it's just "Pay a sub" as every VIP gets GR access (you can consider that a perk if you want, I guess. Or you can ***** about how that too is an outrage since you paid money for GR a year ago). So technically it's still true : To be an incarnate you need to pay a sub and have GR (but paying a sub now automatically grants you GR too)

Yeah, heaven forfend anyone think that literally years of loyally subbing to a game - with real money, no less - entitles them to a few perks. That kinda thinking has to stop and the sooner the better! *facepalm*