Premium Players get less than expected!
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According to the side-by-side comparison, looking at things not included or purchasable under Premium:
So then I start thinking, what am I paying the subscription for? Incarnates and Signature story arcs? IO's? What else? I own or have bought everything there is to offer even now. I have the celestial packs, am a Tier 9 VIP, seven year vet. What do I get for subscribing?
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SG/VG creation.
All channels.
Forum posting.
400 free points per month.
Access to tier 9 VIP rewards.
Priority queues (whatever that means).
Exclusive servers.
Premium in-game customer support.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
You should stop now if you know what's good for you. Lot of accidents can happen in a thread like this. I'd hate to think of something like that happening to you. In fact looking around, this whole thread is a flametrap; one careless match and the whole place could go up, just like that. It'd be a terrible shame if that were to happen to such a nice, respectable thread. Capiche?
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
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Ah good point. I get 550 points a month though and the priority queues could be the trials? and queuing up for TF's and whatnot? Couldn't go without the forum posting though...
According to the side-by-side comparison, looking at things not included or purchasable under Premium:
SG/VG creation. All channels. Forum posting. 400 free points per month. Access to tier 9 VIP rewards. Priority queues (whatever that means). Exclusive servers. Premium in-game customer support. |
Um...guess it's worth it lol, I was never going to unsub anyways but it had me thinking...
Priority Queues mean if the server is crowded the Preems and Freebs have to wait in line and you can just log on.
Not sure if that means a freed would be kicked off to make room for you, but for sure you won't be waiting in line behind them.
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That's not the point. No one should have to spend real money to access loot they already had.
@Arwen Darkblade
Proud Member of Hammer of the Gods and Sanguine Syndicate
Arc ID #86194 "Cry Havoc"
Arc ID #103934 "Dr. Thomas' First Day"
[URL="http://tobyfife.blogspot.com/"]Hero Girl[/URL] - my geek culture blog
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eh...I'll fall victim regardless to those w/ powers, even if it's not intentional or all that bad in the first place.
You should stop now if you know what's good for you. Lot of accidents can happen in a thread like this. I'd hate to think of something like that happening to you. In fact looking around, this whole thread is a flametrap; one careless match and the whole place could go up, just like that. It'd be a terrible shame if that were to happen to such a nice, respectable thread. Capiche?
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![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
No matter how you miss-quote people, YOU have to provide the proof that the store said anything different than every other official source. If you can't do that, you don't have any argument and your accusations are baseless.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
You've been spending real money to access it all along: your subscription.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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You do have access to Praetorian Earth if you bought Going Rogue previously. And Allignment changes, and everything else involved. Incarnates were not advertised as part of Going Rogue, though you required the expansion to use them. You have access to everything from the expansion that was sold as part of the expansion.
From here: http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/news/f...cho.php#tabs-2
From here: http://goingrogue.cityofheroes.com/e...-info/faq.html I think that's the end of the thread. You should keep your expansion if you paid for it. If the Incarnate System is part of the Expansion, then so be it. But access to Praetorian Earth? Without question. Requiring a player to pay twice for the same content is flat out ridiculous. And for those of who you tout the "Nearly" in the first statement it is negated by the word "Including". By putting that specific word into the statement they state that access to it will be retained. I hate that my first post on returning from a year long hiatus had to be about something so ridiculous as this argument. I do hope you all are satisfied. /thread -Rachel- |
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1) I doubt you are a lawyer.
And YOU claim that "But the page you actually paid on never ever ever made any claim about incarnates. Not ever." HOW can you? I can't PROVE it did because, so far, it is lost in the Internet Aether. How can YOU CLAIM it when your own PROOF is the SAME PLACE AS MINE?
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2) I'm sure that NCsoft and Paragon Studios do have lawyers.
3) The burden of proof is on the person making the claim that it was included.
4) Given that no one can provide that proof, they have failed to substantiate their claim.
5) Given that they can't prove their claim, they are lying.
6) You don't have to prove that, at the point of purchase, Incarnates were mentioned. The person making the claim has to prove that all the other documentation that can be found is false.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
The forum admins are welcome to edit my posts. On the other hand, I expect them to apply the same due diligence to Aquila_NA's post's and delete those posts as well.
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Or mistaken. Benefit of the doubt, you know.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
It doesn't matter if they are mistaken or lying. What does matter is that they (a) can't prove it and (b) they are wrong.
Also it doesn't change the fact that, as Oedipus_Tex pointed out, the conditions have changed.
Also it doesn't change the fact that, as Oedipus_Tex pointed out, the conditions have changed.
![](http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g151/vg-mmorpg/ForumAvatars/snowglobesig.png)
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
I'm sure it makes a difference to the people being accused.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
I haven't posted in this thread before, because I don't really have a strong stake in this. I'm OK with how it all works in CoH:F, but I can see people not liking how it works.
However, your quote above smacks of a presumptuous attitude that you have enlightened everyone else with the One Truth. That irritates me, because your post does no such thing.
This requires assuming that "including ... expansions" applies because Incarnate content was bundled with Going Rogue. Yet the debate over whether that's the case is what the whole thread's argument is about, and your "/thread" did nothing to shed greater light on it. You can't declare that argument won by fiat.
In my opinion, the weight of evidence about what is "promised" with respect to Going Rogue including Incarnate access is on the side of folks saying it was not bundled. Only one official info source anyone has dug up for GR references Incarnate powers, and that's the presence of an Incarnate info page appearing under the GR heading. Incarnate powers are not listed on the game boxes, not in the (US) online store page, etc.
In my opinion, that only leaves open to debate the argument about whether unambiguous mechanical gate linking running iTrials to owning GR shows that Incarnate content is "bundled" with GR. Gating is not the same thing as "included with", but gating clearly shows a link. In my opinion, that is a situation vague enough that either side's argument can be said to be weakly valid. If either side's argument can apply, then the devs get to apply the one they want. Some people may gripe about the dev's choice, but we can't fairly say for sure that the devs were being disingenuous or "screwing" anyone out of anything, because the situation is vague.
When arguing about the interpretation of something vague, nobody gets to whip out "/thread" without looking like they're just full of themselves.
However, your quote above smacks of a presumptuous attitude that you have enlightened everyone else with the One Truth. That irritates me, because your post does no such thing.
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And for those of who you tout the "Nearly" in the first statement it is negated by the word "Including". By putting that specific word into the statement they state that access to it will be retained. |
In my opinion, the weight of evidence about what is "promised" with respect to Going Rogue including Incarnate access is on the side of folks saying it was not bundled. Only one official info source anyone has dug up for GR references Incarnate powers, and that's the presence of an Incarnate info page appearing under the GR heading. Incarnate powers are not listed on the game boxes, not in the (US) online store page, etc.
In my opinion, that only leaves open to debate the argument about whether unambiguous mechanical gate linking running iTrials to owning GR shows that Incarnate content is "bundled" with GR. Gating is not the same thing as "included with", but gating clearly shows a link. In my opinion, that is a situation vague enough that either side's argument can be said to be weakly valid. If either side's argument can apply, then the devs get to apply the one they want. Some people may gripe about the dev's choice, but we can't fairly say for sure that the devs were being disingenuous or "screwing" anyone out of anything, because the situation is vague.
When arguing about the interpretation of something vague, nobody gets to whip out "/thread" without looking like they're just full of themselves.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Good post UberGuy, nailed it pretty well really.
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/Thread
I haven't posted in this thread before, because I don't really have a strong stake in this. I'm OK with how it all works in CoH:F, but I can see people not liking how it works.
However, your quote above smacks of a presumptuous attitude that you have enlightened everyone else with the One Truth. That irritates me, because your post does no such thing. This requires assuming that "including ... expansions" applies because Incarnate content was bundled with Going Rogue. Yet the debate over whether that's the case is what the whole thread's argument is about, and your "/thread" did nothing to shed greater light on it. You can't declare that argument won by fiat. In my opinion, the weight of evidence about what is "promised" with respect to Going Rogue including Incarnate access is on the side of folks saying it was not bundled. Only one official info source anyone has dug up for GR references Incarnate powers, and that's the presence of an Incarnate info page appearing under the GR heading. Incarnate powers are not listed on the game boxes, not in the (US) online store page, etc. In my opinion, that only leaves open to debate the argument about whether unambiguous mechanical gate linking running iTrials to owning GR shows that Incarnate content is "bundled" with GR. Gating is not the same thing as "included with", but gating clearly shows a link. In my opinion, that is a situation vague enough that either side's argument can be said to be weakly valid. If either side's argument can apply, then the devs get to apply the one they want. Some people may gripe about the dev's choice, but we can't fairly say for sure that the devs were being disingenuous or "screwing" anyone out of anything, because the situation is vague. When arguing about the interpretation of something vague, nobody gets to whip out "/thread" without looking like they're just full of themselves. |
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
I really hope we can get a Dev to put an official Foot Down™ on the 'He said/She said before the actual launch of Freedom.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
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Keep Calm & Chive On!
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1) They're welcome to delete away.
1) I doubt you are a lawyer.
2) I'm sure that NCsoft and Paragon Studios do have lawyers. 3) The burden of proof is on the person making the claim that it was included. 4) Given that no one can provide that proof, they have failed to substantiate their claim. 5) Given that they can't prove their claim, they are lying. 6) You don't have to prove that, at the point of purchase, Incarnates were mentioned. The person making the claim has to prove that all the other documentation that can be found is false. |
2) I was never trying to prove anything. I asked a question on behalf of someone else and was never fully satisfied that the sources provided conclusively answered that question.
3) Again, I NEVER MADE A CLAIM.
4) Where's the Ignore button?
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I've said this elsewhere (possibly in this thread) but Going Rogue grants you access to Pratoria (sp?) and the alignment system. You need both to access the Incarnate stuff but Going Rogue does not grant you access to Incarnates.
your reply confused me...
You needed GR in order to do Incarnate Trials You needed a subscription to play. Since you can play for free now, all I'm saying is that you should have access to Incarnates if you bought GR. Not gonna fight tooth and nail for this like some people, just saying. |
As someone that has been away from the game for a couple of years, this was extremely clear to me. I think the confusion has come from statements Devs may have made on these forums. They hoped to get some Incarnate stuff out with Going Rogue, but it didn't happen. So some forum goers have merged the stuff together. However official advertising never had any Incarnate stuff in Going Rogue. Thats all.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
For the hoards of TL/DR people:
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See what I was doing there? Expressing my curiosity. Asking a question. Not claiming or proving JACK.
I wish that the GR Pre-Order site was available, cached, or something. I'm interested in seeing what the description was for folks who bought before it was released. If the Store's product description made any reference to Incarnates there MIGHT be an argument. That is what they bought (or didn't buy). When the transaction was complete, THAT part of the deal is done. If it SAID that it included Incarnate content but did NOT then they should have said/done something about it then and there, to include uninstalling it, having the code canceled and requesting a refund. If it did not say anything about Incarnates then it's really a case of Caveat Emptor.
This is, despite what anyone said, all that matters. What was represented when the money actually changed hands? |
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It says NEARLY everything you already purchased right there in what you quoted. It has said "Nearly everything" in everything I have ever read regarding it. The use of the word "nearly" is very important there, as that word, which keeps getting ignored, is clearly stating that you don't keep 100% of what you had before.
I stand corrected. That promise IS in the official documentation. Player Choices -> Returning Players says:
Which is patently not true. This needs to be taken out of the official documentation before Freedom goes Live proper. "Everything you already purchased" is just a horrible choice of phrase that ends up being far broader than the deal actually includes, and is just not true. This has to go. Fast. |
"Nearly everything" is not the same thing as "everything". And if you DID keep 100% of everything you paid for, how much revenue would the game lose when VIPs stopped paying their subscription because there is no longer any reason for them to pay anything at all? The game losing revenue would be a BAD thing, as CoH's parent company has repeatedly proven that they are not the slightest bit shy about shutting down unprofitable games.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
What ever this is just dumb to continue to argue about so im gonna stop it now
oh well...
oh and rachel, welcome, back, what do you think of the steampunk set?