Premium Players get less than expected!

eh, you got to play gr for over a year longer than those who waited, same as cov. I paid full price for coh, gr, and cov back in the day, my little brother got the complete edition of gr for (i think) 15 bucks or so he saved about 160 bucks relative to me, the difference is, i got to play 7 years more than him, and enjoyed a good portion of those 7 years. we often go on about how its the journey not the destination in the game, and really, life is like that, if you adopted early, you did so knowing that you were getting a worse deal for instant gratification. its why i did it and its why others did it, its why early adopters have always done it. rather than waiting for the eventual price drop of every piece of software not made by nintendo. appreciate that your journey included the content earlier than others did.

oh and rachel, welcome, back, what do you think of the steampunk set?

According to the side-by-side comparison, looking at things not included or purchasable under Premium:

SG/VG creation.
All channels.
Forum posting.
400 free points per month.
Access to tier 9 VIP rewards.
Priority queues (whatever that means).
Exclusive servers.
Premium in-game customer support.

You should stop now if you know what's good for you. Lot of accidents can happen in a thread like this. I'd hate to think of something like that happening to you. In fact looking around, this whole thread is a flametrap; one careless match and the whole place could go up, just like that. It'd be a terrible shame if that were to happen to such a nice, respectable thread. Capiche?

Ah good point. I get 550 points a month though and the priority queues could be the trials? and queuing up for TF's and whatnot? Couldn't go without the forum posting though...

Um...guess it's worth it lol, I was never going to unsub anyways but it had me thinking...

That's not the point. No one should have to spend real money to access loot they already had.

eh...I'll fall victim regardless to those w/ powers, even if it's not intentional or all that bad in the first place.

No matter how you miss-quote people, YOU have to provide the proof that the store said anything different than every other official source. If you can't do that, you don't have any argument and your accusations are baseless.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

You've been spending real money to access it all along: your subscription.

You do have access to Praetorian Earth if you bought Going Rogue previously. And Allignment changes, and everything else involved. Incarnates were not advertised as part of Going Rogue, though you required the expansion to use them. You have access to everything from the expansion that was sold as part of the expansion.

1) I doubt you are a lawyer.
2) I'm sure that NCsoft and Paragon Studios do have lawyers.
3) The burden of proof is on the person making the claim that it was included.
4) Given that no one can provide that proof, they have failed to substantiate their claim.
5) Given that they can't prove their claim, they are lying.
6) You don't have to prove that, at the point of purchase, Incarnates were mentioned. The person making the claim has to prove that all the other documentation that can be found is false.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

The forum admins are welcome to edit my posts. On the other hand, I expect them to apply the same due diligence to Aquila_NA's post's and delete those posts as well.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

Or mistaken. Benefit of the doubt, you know.

It doesn't matter if they are mistaken or lying. What does matter is that they (a) can't prove it and (b) they are wrong.

Also it doesn't change the fact that, as Oedipus_Tex pointed out, the conditions have changed.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

I'm sure it makes a difference to the people being accused.

I haven't posted in this thread before, because I don't really have a strong stake in this. I'm OK with how it all works in CoH:F, but I can see people not liking how it works.

However, your quote above smacks of a presumptuous attitude that you have enlightened everyone else with the One Truth. That irritates me, because your post does no such thing.

This requires assuming that "including ... expansions" applies because Incarnate content was bundled with Going Rogue. Yet the debate over whether that's the case is what the whole thread's argument is about, and your "/thread" did nothing to shed greater light on it. You can't declare that argument won by fiat.

In my opinion, the weight of evidence about what is "promised" with respect to Going Rogue including Incarnate access is on the side of folks saying it was not bundled. Only one official info source anyone has dug up for GR references Incarnate powers, and that's the presence of an Incarnate info page appearing under the GR heading. Incarnate powers are not listed on the game boxes, not in the (US) online store page, etc.

In my opinion, that only leaves open to debate the argument about whether unambiguous mechanical gate linking running iTrials to owning GR shows that Incarnate content is "bundled" with GR. Gating is not the same thing as "included with", but gating clearly shows a link. In my opinion, that is a situation vague enough that either side's argument can be said to be weakly valid. If either side's argument can apply, then the devs get to apply the one they want. Some people may gripe about the dev's choice, but we can't fairly say for sure that the devs were being disingenuous or "screwing" anyone out of anything, because the situation is vague.

When arguing about the interpretation of something vague, nobody gets to whip out "/thread" without looking like they're just full of themselves.

/Thread



I really hope we can get a Dev to put an official Foot Down™ on the 'He said/She said before the actual launch of Freedom.

I think they've made it clear where they stand with the locking away of incarnates.

1) They're welcome to delete away.
2) I was never trying to prove anything. I asked a question on behalf of someone else and was never fully satisfied that the sources provided conclusively answered that question.
3) Again, I NEVER MADE A CLAIM.
4) Where's the Ignore button?

I've said this elsewhere (possibly in this thread) but Going Rogue grants you access to Pratoria (sp?) and the alignment system. You need both to access the Incarnate stuff but Going Rogue does not grant you access to Incarnates.

As someone that has been away from the game for a couple of years, this was extremely clear to me. I think the confusion has come from statements Devs may have made on these forums. They hoped to get some Incarnate stuff out with Going Rogue, but it didn't happen. So some forum goers have merged the stuff together. However official advertising never had any Incarnate stuff in Going Rogue. Thats all.

See what I was doing there? Expressing my curiosity. Asking a question. Not claiming or proving JACK.

It says NEARLY everything you already purchased right there in what you quoted. It has said "Nearly everything" in everything I have ever read regarding it. The use of the word "nearly" is very important there, as that word, which keeps getting ignored, is clearly stating that you don't keep 100% of what you had before.

"Nearly everything" is not the same thing as "everything". And if you DID keep 100% of everything you paid for, how much revenue would the game lose when VIPs stopped paying their subscription because there is no longer any reason for them to pay anything at all? The game losing revenue would be a BAD thing, as CoH's parent company has repeatedly proven that they are not the slightest bit shy about shutting down unprofitable games.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Until you take a few minutes to make use of a Second or Third Build to give them SOs that is.