Premium Players get less than expected!
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-09-24 05:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I read it and disagree that it's a lie.|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
Nearly is a lie too, please go back and read Samual Tow posts very informative stuff.
They shoulda just said "keep some of the stuff you paid for" |
As I said I agree that it should have been clear. Which Sam says. No where does Sam assert it's a lie.
If Incarnates is one of the things missing, yeah that's nearly everything you paid for.
And this is what the actual page says:
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Returning Players Become Premium Players We honor your commitment and experience! If you used to play City of Heroes, you will automatically become a premium player. New free players can become premium players by buying any amount of Paragon Points. Get everything that free players get. Retain nearly everything you already purchased or unlocked, including Super Boosters, expansions, and directly purchased character slots. Retain all the Veteran Rewards you earned. |
Under the Returning players tab.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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You've overlooked an important detail: any version of the prepurchase page from before March 26th can't mention Incarnates, because PAX East hadn't happened yet. It wasn't until the last week of March that the Incarnate sneak peek was revealed. At the very least this means anyone who prepurchased prior to PAX couldn't have done so believing they'd get Incarnates.|
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
And dont you think that Incarnates would be a worthwhile mention as well as the two powersets on the official overview, and yet according to http://web.archive.org/web/201003230.../overview.html ((dated 23rd March 2010)) there is no mention of it... So that to me makes me feel that Incarnates were not a feature of Going Rogue....
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However, even the April version of the prepurchase page does not mention Incarnates (nothing on the site - even official PAX reporting - mentioned Incarnates). If they never updated the site designed to promote Going Rogue, then the odds are very much against the NCSoft store page being updated. If the promotional site didn't get an update, then my mind would be blown that the publishers updated a product page.
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I agree that this page argues strongly against any likelihood that Incarnates were advertised as included in the prepurchase. It almost nails it cold, as I said to Gangrel. If the Prepurchase Now button went to a valid page, we would know for certain. As it stands, I believe that there was most probably nothing about Incarnates on the following page but, like I also said, I never visited it and never read it. So, I don't know.|
Originally Posted by ScottyB
You've overlooked an important detail: any version of the prepurchase page from before March 26th can't mention Incarnates, because PAX East hadn't happened yet. It wasn't until the last week of March that the Incarnate sneak peek was revealed. At the very least this means anyone who prepurchased prior to PAX couldn't have done so believing they'd get Incarnates.
However, even the April version of the prepurchase page does not mention Incarnates (nothing on the site - even official PAX reporting - mentioned Incarnates). If they never updated the site designed to promote Going Rogue, then the odds are very much against the NCSoft store page being updated. If the promotional site didn't get an update, then my mind would be blown that the publishers updated a product page. |
At any rate, it doesn't affect me and I'm tired of people who don't read or don't understand the difference between what is advertised, implied, hinted at or speculated upon and what is AGREED to upon sale. You people who truly believe that your prepurchase stipulated Incarnate access: Good luck finding proof. Sincerely.
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by ScottyB
You've overlooked an important detail: any version of the prepurchase page from before March 26th can't mention Incarnates, because PAX East hadn't happened yet. It wasn't until the last week of March that the Incarnate sneak peek was revealed. At the very least this means anyone who prepurchased prior to PAX couldn't have done so believing they'd get Incarnates.
However, even the April version of the prepurchase page does not mention Incarnates (nothing on the site - even official PAX reporting - mentioned Incarnates). If they never updated the site designed to promote Going Rogue, then the odds are very much against the NCSoft store page being updated. If the promotional site didn't get an update, then my mind would be blown that the publishers updated a product page. |
And not to mention as well that it would be pretty impressive for Incarnates to be listed as an official feature of Going Rogue around the time of pre-orders being listed, and then it being removed from the website a short period later (end of March, and still no mention of it all the way up to July) before Positron mentioning the removal of the "sneak peak" feature officially in July.
If NCsoft did all of the above just to spite those who pre-ordered, then i want them to give me next weeks winning lottery numbers, because that amount of foresight is impressive.
Note: Took a while to type this all up due to CSI on TV...
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Originally Posted by Texarkana
Issue 18 was Shades of Grey, which coincided with the Going Rogue release.
Issue 19 was Alpha Strike!, which was the release of Incarnate system. |
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Originally Posted by Texarkana
There have always been 2 requirements for access to Incarnates. Having Going Rogue and subscribing.
Before Freedom, you did not have access to Incarnates if you subscribed, but did not buy Going Rogue. Conversely, if you bought Going Rogue, but did not subscribe, then you did not have access to Incarnates (or anything else). Given that in the Freedom model you get Going Rogue access for free when you subscribe, it appears that subscribing is the only requirement, but the two requirements still stand. Therefore, owning Going Rogue, but not subscribing, means you do not have access to Incarnates (but do have access to other stuff!) Now, do I agree with this? Not really, because of the marketing snafu that was postponing Incarnates, but that is the way it is. |
None of this even matters. The prices in the market are so stupid, this whole experiment is going to end in massive failure. The only people who are going to shell out for overpriced crap are the people who were going to pay 15 bucks a month anyways. Why pay 100 bucks on a game you will get tired of after 2 months when it would normally cost you 30 (only 15 if you use a friend code)?
Sorry, math problems guys, work em out or let the void take you.
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Math is the whole reason these models work...some people feel more comfortable giving a little at a time then a lot up front, even if it ends up costing them more in the end.
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Originally Posted by Nox__Fatalis
None of this even matters. The prices in the market are so stupid, this whole experiment is going to end in massive failure. The only people who are going to shell out for overpriced crap are the people who were going to pay 15 bucks a month anyways. Why pay 100 bucks on a game you will get tired of after 2 months when it would normally cost you 30 (only 15 if you use a friend code)?
Sorry, math problems guys, work em out or let the void take you. |
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Really. Ok, if it makes you happy to believe that you just go right along believing it.
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Originally Posted by Nox__Fatalis
None of this even matters. The prices in the market are so stupid, this whole experiment is going to end in massive failure. The only people who are going to shell out for overpriced crap are the people who were going to pay 15 bucks a month anyways. Why pay 100 bucks on a game you will get tired of after 2 months when it would normally cost you 30 (only 15 if you use a friend code)?
Sorry, math problems guys, work em out or let the void take you. |
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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I was wondering how much you would try to read into a single-word reply to a multi-part post. That may be an interesting hobby, but you probably shouldn't try to make a living at it.
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Originally Posted by Justice Blues
So you are a "Do as you say, not as you do" kind of person. I will remember that. It will certainly help me give the proper weight to your opinions in the future.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
So far, we're averaging better than 11 posts per hour about a non-issue.
GO! GO! GO!
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
So? The same can be said of the Original CoH, CoV, or any retail version of the game (no matter where it was purchased from: NCstore, a retail store, or Steam). As of Tuesday the need for a subscription is non-existent.
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The same can be said for them because they are all examples of the original purchase being modified. The game sold to players stated expliclitly that it required fees to play. You cannot backtrack now and call it false advertising because perpetual access to game features was never for sale.
If the developers had taken the AE and incarnate content away from SUBSCRIBERS the conditions of the box would be violated. It does not matter what the box said it gave you because the condition of the box was that you had to pay a fee to access it. It never, ever, ever made any promises about what you would get if you stopped paying, so this entire conversation is ridiculous.
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If this were true, then the situation has not changed: |
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
All of this, if the prior agreement was that you had to have GR & a subscription to access the Incarnate System, with the game being a hybrid model now, you should be able to access the Incarnate System for just having bought GR.
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Pre-I21: Need GR and a subscription.
Post-I21: Need a subscription.
Oops, my bad; the situation has improved.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
your reply confused me...
You needed GR in order to do Incarnate Trials
You needed a subscription to play.
Since you can play for free now, all I'm saying is that you should have access to Incarnates if you bought GR. Not gonna fight tooth and nail for this like some people, just saying.
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I'm curious about your definition of hypocrisy, since I'm not the one endangering my status by violating forum rules.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
that post is so rich w/ hypocrisy that it made me smile
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
your reply confused me...
You needed GR in order to do Incarnate Trials You needed a subscription to play. Since you can play for free now, all I'm saying is that you should have access to Incarnates if you bought GR. Not gonna fight tooth and nail for this like some people, just saying. |
I hate to be the arbiter of logic, but since all subscribers are now granted GR for free, there is nothing violated. You need conditions 1 and 2 to be settled to access incarnate content, and any subscriber meets those conditions.
The fact that the game is now free does not mean you get all the benefits of a subscriber. Going Rogue did not, even in the most extraneous way, indicate that you would have access to Incarnate content in perpetuity. In fact, absolutely everything related to Going Rogue made the opposite claim: if you stop paying you get nothing. The fact that you can now get more than nothing is not a violation of the terms of the original agreement in any logical sense.
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Prerequisites mean that you cannot do Y without X, not that you have a special right to Y just because you have X.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
All of this, if the prior agreement was that you had to have GR & a subscription to access the Incarnate System, with the game being a hybrid model now, you should be able to access the Incarnate System for just having bought GR.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
From here: http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/news/f...cho.php#tabs-2
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From here: http://goingrogue.cityofheroes.com/e...-info/faq.html| Retain nearly everything you already purchased or unlocked, including Super Boosters, expansions, and directly purchased character slots. |
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| The City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion |
And for those of who you tout the "Nearly" in the first statement it is negated by the word "Including". By putting that specific word into the statement they state that access to it will be retained. I hate that my first post on returning from a year long hiatus had to be about something so ridiculous as this argument. I do hope you all are satisfied.
/thread
-Rachel-
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To be fair, it doesn't say "including all expansions", but neither does it say "including some expansions". It's still open to interpretation.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
And for those of who you tout the "Nearly" in the first statement it is negated by the word "Including". By putting that specific word into the statement they state that access to it will be retained. I hate that my first post on returning from a year long hiatus had to be about something so ridiculous as this argument. I do hope you all are satisfied.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Incarnates didnt come with GR. It came out after. Though they did say one had to have bought GR for access to Incarnates.|
Originally Posted by FalconX_NA
A friend of mine just came back to the game after it went free and isn't allowed to use the incarnate system after he bought Going Rogue. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Incarnate system was included with Going Rogue, in fact before going F2P, new players HAD to buy Going Rogue to use the Incarnate system. So tell me how is it fair that someone who spent their own money on a service gets that service taken from them just because they aren't paying the 16$ a month. This is clearly just a way to get more money,someone who paid for a service shouldn't be denied .Premium players might as well start a new account, they really aren't gaining much of anything by coming back...
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That said, I'm of the opinion that, they're still free players who get access to the game, when not paying a monthly fee.
What's to complain about?
"I get to play for free! But not this one part of the game?! Grrrrr! I ragequit! Can I ragequit a game Im playing for free?" >_>
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Apparently you can.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Incarnates didnt come with GR. It came out after. Though they did say one had to have bought GR for access to Incarnates.
That said, I'm of the opinion that, they're still free players who get access to the game, when not paying a monthly fee. What's to complain about? "I get to play for free! But not this one part of the game?! Grrrrr! I ragequit! Can I ragequit a game Im playing for free?" >_> |
Although it does take some of the impact away: "This game won't give me access to everything for free?! That does it! I'm quitting and now I won't be using server resources while paying nothing for them! Take that!"
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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oh no, I meant the post you were quoting |
Originally Posted by Aneko
I'm curious about your definition of hypocrisy, since I'm not the one endangering my status by violating forum rules.
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Thank you, I was confused. <.<
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
oh no, I meant the post you were quoting
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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still feels like I'm getting jipped if I paid for GR already, not asking for anything else.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I hate to be the arbiter of logic, but since all subscribers are now granted GR for free, there is nothing violated. You need conditions 1 and 2 to be settled to access incarnate content, and any subscriber meets those conditions.
The fact that the game is now free does not mean you get all the benefits of a subscriber. Going Rogue did not, even in the most extraneous way, indicate that you would have access to Incarnate content in perpetuity. In fact, absolutely everything related to Going Rogue made the opposite claim: if you stop paying you get nothing. The fact that you can now get more than nothing is not a violation of the terms of the original agreement in any logical sense. |
my second account is premium and I feel I should have access to everything that I paid for, I would feel differently if it was a free account that hasn't bought anything.
oh well, I guess them's the breaks.
I am of two minds about this. On one hand, before Freedom I owned every single thing they sold as far as packs and extras, special editions, AE edition, collectors edition, been to every Herocon that came this way in Cali, etc etc etc.
So If I went premium and kept everything I owned, according to some in this thread, I should have the entire 2 games for free and everything in it for free forever including Incarnates, etc.
On the other hand I have always supported Paragon Studios/NCSoft and would have continued subscribing because I want to continue the support. So then I start thinking, what am I paying the subscription for? Incarnates and Signature story arcs? IO's? What else? I own or have bought everything there is to offer even now. I have the celestial packs, am a Tier 9 VIP, seven year vet. What do I get for subscribing?
So I understand that they have to hide some things behind subscription and I can see where the other side is coming from too. If they were to give premiums the IO's and Incarnates, there would really be no other reason for me to continue to subscribe. I honestly hope they hide more things behind subscription so I feel like I am getting my moneys worth each month. But then again a reward point and 550 paragon points comes with the subscription....eh what do I know? lol
I don't think that they lied. I just think that is is remotely possible that some people entered into a contract (buying goods) that I'm not sure is being honored.