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Make that two "HAAAAha"s.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
So I'll throw in a nice HAAAAha.
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P.S. They don't have to add anything to SR. SR is fine. I'd hate it if the set became the all-over-the-map-over-engineered monstrosity Shield Defense is.
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Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
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SR's resistance goes up the less hp you've got so really as I find it to be, I might go down to low hp but it's not something to always panic about. I'd me more worried about Regen on Brutes. Whilst it would of been lush to have Broadsword for tankers, Parry might disappear.
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Shame on you, Bill! EA is a pretty good set already. Softcapping all but Psi is pretty easy to do with IOs, and now it's going to be even better. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I did. It just went from laughable to well now that's interesting.
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I'd have prefered that over SR. SR looks to... plain... for me. I like a little utility in my sets. Still, I won't be able to stop myself from trying it on a tank.
Oh, and MA is rather dissapointing. I can't remember ever seeing requests for it, but I remember endless begging for Broadsword.
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Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
A couple of things I'll just toss out there:
1. The scaling resistances in Scrapper and Brute SR passives are not archetype-sensitive, so if they are straight-ported from Brutes or Scrappers the resistance values will be identical for Tankers.
2. Soft-capped SR scrappers can be extremely powerful, but outside of high end invention builds that generally add a lot of +health and regen, they tend to be vulnerable to alpha strikes. Not often, but if you're a tanker and take every single one of them for a team in a task forces, dying only once out of every two hundred alphas might still mean face planing several times during that task force. That might be a little more often than a tanker should be hoping for.
SR for tankers will probably be one of those things that, without any modifications, will be very interesting when played more like a scrapper or in teams with a lot of buffs (especially resistance buffs), but less interesting when actually played as a straight-up tanker while leveling up by the average player.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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I've thought SR should get that for all its iterations... it's too much of a one trick pony, and you will get hit at some point, especially in the new content we have running toward us. I sometimes felt like Shields was a little squishy (without recourse to fix a big hit) despite its +HP and OWTS. Super Reflexes looks way worse in comparison, at least as it is on Brutes.|
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
Arcanaville's suggestion was to add a self-heal and a +max hp (that can stack from the same caster) to Practiced Brawler.
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For me, I'm not all that interested in the proliferation for Tanks. Martial Arts doesn't sound all that great on a Tank, and as noted above, Super Reflexes doesn't feel like it will be all that great on a Tank (at least if my experience with it on a Scrapper holds true). Having more HP to play with will help, but my SR Scrapper has had plenty of bad luck, even at the def cap.
I would have liked to see EA over here, and I would have loved to see Martial Arts as a secondary for Blasters (I could care less about Dark, but I'm glad some are excited about the idea). I guess that wasn't workable since we have our art assets sucked up elsewhere right now. *sighs* Still don't know why they gave one of the new NPCs for Going Rogue Martial Arts (and he's a Blaster), and didn't bother with it there.
Debating what kind of EA Scrapper to make, though. Might go with Broadsword or Axe, and use the Vanguard weapon for them... all energy for the win. Or I might go with Kin Melee... too bad I already have a Kin/Dark since EA wasn't a choice for Scrappers when KM first came out.
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True, but it doesn't have to be, does it? Aren't we talking about a single equation change so that the scaling dam-res follows the same AT mods for resistance? Granted, bumping it to 0-80% DR sounds excessive.| 1. The scaling resistances in Scrapper and Brute SR passives are not archetype-sensitive, so if they are straight-ported from Brutes or Scrappers the resistance values will be identical for Tankers. |
But even without that, when a scrapper hits 25% HP, it will have 35% DR, right? (with all three passives...) He hits that at base with ~335 HP at level 50.
The tank, on the other hand, will hit the same 35% DR when he's still sitting on ~469 HP.
Has it been untrue to state that SR's scaling dam-res is more beneficial to brutes since it was proliferated to them? Is that not more true with tanks?
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I agree as well. Defense by itself is just not that survivable in this game, considering many tanker sets can softcap their defense, while still having their regen, res, etc on top of it. SR is luck. Sometimes you are godlike and don't get hit for an entire play session. Sometimes you die in a span of 2 seconds. For scrappers, it's no big deal. But for a tank who's supposed to hold aggro for a whole team, dying from bad luck all the time is not good. There's a reason why ice tanks are not relied on often as main tanks in high end stuff, and keep in mind they have a lot more survivability than just their defense....unlike SR.|
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
SR is going to need more than just defenses to be something tolerable for Tanks.
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That being said, I don't see them changing the set for tankers, and I do expect it to be the exact same as brute/scrapper SR. Which is why I don't think it will be that great. I think the only area of the game it will be "unique" are the incarnate trials, where an SR tank would maybe be able to reach the new 59% softcap by himself, without any buffs. But with all the buffs flying around in the trials, it will be pretty much pointless to begin with.
Hmmm...I don't know. SR/ for Tankers looks good to me. Shielder's already do awesome as it is.
SR will beable to softcap easier, and thusly get over the softcap easier. Nice to have for those iTrials where more defense is nice.
There will of course be the enemies that the SR/ Tanker will worry about. But /SR's already worry about them.
Higher Health, ability to focus IO builds towards other things besides +Defense.
It'll be interresting.
Won't have the damage output of a Shield user..and an IOed Shielder might be better than an IOed SR in the long run, but that's the case now for the Brutes/Scrappers in a lot of peoples opinions now.
Havent been interrested in rolling a new Tanker in awhile after getting 3 of them to 50. This may change that for me.
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great.. any time they add new powers is good news from my point of veiw.
personally id like to see something new though, Radiation armor/attack!.. i wonder about a force feild, or sonic armor though.. could be kinda cool too
I wonder how well SR will work on the ITF. My /SR scrapper is like tissue paper against cascading defense debuffs.
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Originally Posted by UberRod
I wonder how well SR will work on the ITF. My /SR scrapper is like tissue paper against cascading defense debuffs.
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Let's all hope the next raid doesn't feature Devouring Earth with the same abilities the Earth-Prime versions have.
Although it will still be hilarious to goad newbie SR Tankers into taking an alpha from the prime version anyway.
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ITF? really?|
Originally Posted by UberRod
I wonder how well SR will work on the ITF. My /SR scrapper is like tissue paper against cascading defense debuffs.
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Was able to solo it on my claws/sr scrapper.... used oranges against the last AV fight but still
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then your doing it wrong. SR gets 95% ddr so is basically immune to defense debuffs. I've never seen my SR scrapper go below 43% def from 45% on the itf and that was aggroed capped.
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Originally Posted by UberRod
I wonder how well SR will work on the ITF. My /SR scrapper is like tissue paper against cascading defense debuffs.
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Yeah, SR is the one set that should have zero problems with the defense debuffs on ITF.
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Against sustained damage the scaling resists will be better on tankers than Brutes. But they won't help much against actual alpha strikes, and they take a brief period of time to kick in. In other words, if ten things shoot at you all at about the same time, its not like the first hit reduces your health, and the second hit is resisted a little bit, and the third hit is resisted a little more, all the way up to ten. All ten hits will score while resistance is zero, and about a half second to a second later your resistance will jump up to the new value.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
True, but it doesn't have to be, does it? Aren't we talking about a single equation change so that the scaling dam-res follows the same AT mods for resistance? Granted, bumping it to 0-80% DR sounds excessive.
But even without that, when a scrapper hits 25% HP, it will have 35% DR, right? (with all three passives...) He hits that at base with ~335 HP at level 50. The tank, on the other hand, will hit the same 35% DR when he's still sitting on ~469 HP. Has it been untrue to state that SR's scaling dam-res is more beneficial to brutes since it was proliferated to them? Is that not more true with tanks? |
As to the scaling resistance numbers, I was just pointing out that they won't *automatically* scale to tanker archetype modifiers because they don't use them. So if they end up higher than scrapper or brute numbers, it will have to be because the devs deliberately changed them, and they don't usually do that by default for that sort of thing. So it would be safer to presume the numbers will be the same unless the devs state otherwise.
On the general subject of the ITF, that's one place I'm not too worried about SR tankers. So long as they actually slot their SR powers and then soft cap with inventions or power pools, they should be fine. Although you can get pretty close with just combat jump and weave is a bit overkill, I do think SR tankers should still consider going tough/weave for the s/l resistance. And with no heals at all aid self is probably a good idea for SR tankers. An SR tanker with no aid self and no tough is actually going to be weaker than my SR scrapper, and while she generally skates through the ITF, even she can get overwhelmed at times.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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I like the addition of SR/ to Tankers ... and man that is so weird typing SR/ instead of /SR. Freakin' me out, I do declare!
Anyway, I was trying to figure out where I might put a Titanic Weapon user, and now I think I know. I'll hold out for Titanic weapons so I can have a SR/Titanic monstrosity.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
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This...
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Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
I'll hold out for Titanic weapons so I can have a SR/Titanic monstrosity.
Lewis |
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I was just thinking the same thing...
This Tanker is going to tend be 45% softcapped at a very low level - probably level 22. So for the Older content it is going to seem pretty strong very early.
It will also be very easy to have the ~59%(whatever) you need Defense for Softcap in the new Trials. Just use the IO strategy you used to get a scrapper to 45%
Also the Tanker with Elude running will have silly high Def Numbers. Much like the scrapper version though it will only really help against the Rularu Eyeballs and DE Quartz zones.
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I wouldn't worry about the ITF .. The SR Tanker will skate through it. Just the extra regen you get for all those HP will make it pretty easy at least up to the last Battle*
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*(is that autohit Nictus still running as Originally set up? For some reason that whole encounter seems so much easier these days.)
Very excited to roll a SR/MA tanker - very scared that tanker MA will be as disappointing as Kinetic Melee was.
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MA without changes will be sad |
Originally Posted by UNB0UND_4_LIFE
Very excited to roll a SR/MA tanker - very scared that tanker MA will be as disappointing as Kinetic Melee was.
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But hey... peeps play it for looks right?|
Originally Posted by BrandX
MA without changes will be sad
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MA is crap... the last buff it got was crap... it's just crap.... there I said it...
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i sure hope it does. i have ALWAYS wanted stone/ma or an ma/stone. But dev's dont like awesome so i think it wont work with it.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Please tell me Martial Arts works with Stone Armor. I want to see that in action.
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I don't know, does it need changes? I've never played it but I've a friend who loves the set... he's taken MA/SR scrappers to 50 twice and teaming with him on the way he's quite effective. Yes, it's strongly single target focused but then again so are several other tanker sets.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
MA without changes will be sad
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I'll probably roll one when i21 goes live unless the set really falls on it's face when it leaves beta. My main question is the taunt aura... hopefully it isn't some worthless thing like Willpower's.
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I would like SR to eventually get a buff (on all ATs) that lets it reroll 1 attack that hits every so many seconds. Basically the reverse of the Streakbreaker. I think this would be more thematic than just raising HP or providing a heal. It is essentially a way of letting the set get past the softcap without just increasing the soft cap, but also works even if you don't soft cap.