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All things comsidered it's not like Scrappers or Brutes are hitting these damage caps on their own (outside of heavy inspiration usage which lasts a minute), and outside of Fire Resist with FA and Energy Resist with ELA, none of them are hitting even 75%+ resist to any of their resists outside of using a tier 9. And none of the tier 9 are going to allow the AT to stay in them full time.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
You support raising resistance caps on Scrappers, already one of the highest performing ATs, without a commensurate decrease in damage. But Tankers aren't allowed to have their damage cap raised without gutting their survivability?
Hypocrite. . |
But I say sure! Move the damage cap up on a Tanker!
Personally, I'd rather they add a .5 to the damage modifier for plus damage overall, instead of a raise in damage cap that I'd only see under special circumstances.
Not sure if it would be game breaking or not. But for someone who seems to want a Scrapper level damage Tanker, have you made a FA Tanker?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
OH they are fun to play, and I have out damages scrappers on mine.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
All things comsidered it's not like Scrappers or Brutes are hitting these damage caps on their own (outside of heavy inspiration usage which lasts a minute), and outside of Fire Resist with FA and Energy Resist with ELA, none of them are hitting even 75%+ resist to any of their resists outside of using a tier 9. And none of the tier 9 are going to allow the AT to stay in them full time.
But I say sure! Move the damage cap up on a Tanker! Personally, I'd rather they add a .5 to the damage modifier for plus damage overall, instead of a raise in damage cap that I'd only see under special circumstances. Not sure if it would be game breaking or not. But for someone who seems to want a Scrapper level damage Tanker, have you made a FA Tanker? |
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I know! I've seen it! My Scrapper has wept!
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Originally Posted by LSK
OH they are fun to play, and I have out damages scrappers on mine.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
I am sorry I made your scrapper wept.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I know! I've seen it! My Scrapper has wept!
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I didn't say either way what I thought of the idea. I was just pointing out that Claws supporting it is a wee bit hypocritical with the crap he's given me in this thread.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
All things comsidered it's not like Scrappers or Brutes are hitting these damage caps on their own (outside of heavy inspiration usage which lasts a minute), and outside of Fire Resist with FA and Energy Resist with ELA, none of them are hitting even 75%+ resist to any of their resists outside of using a tier 9. And none of the tier 9 are going to allow the AT to stay in them full time.
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Quote:
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But I say sure! Move the damage cap up on a Tanker! Personally, I'd rather they add a .5 to the damage modifier for plus damage overall, instead of a raise in damage cap that I'd only see under special circumstances. |
Also, contrary to what some assert, I don't necessarily think Tankers need straight up better damage than they have now. I want their potential to be equitable to Brutes and Scrappers. Brutes/Scraps have purple and green inspirations and Destiny Rebirth and Barrier to keep them upright; if I wanna mainline big reds and have a 1kilo KO Blow like a Brute who did the same, why can't that be allowed?
Not that I would reject a .5 dam mod increase if that was all that was changing, but it's not really my goal.
.
There is all kind of things that I have noticed that lot of ppl do not see like this.
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So yes tanks can get there.
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Originally Posted by untoldhero
Yep id say u did. Also may I mention??? That last night my ela/ss was getting 1055 dpa with knockout blow on domonique (av) there was a sonic defender on the team and let me tell you I was smashing some skull!
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And how often is this an issue exactly, and for that matter, how long does it last when it occurs? | A Brute at the damage cap would still do 1.7 times the damage of a Tanker at same, as opposed to 1.8 times |
I'm fairly certain that if it ever does happen (big if) it's not very often, nor for a very long period of time. Then take that arbitrary value and compare it to the majority of the game and what you're asking for changes absolutely nothing. In other words, there's no reason for it. Which brings the argument back to why Arcana basically said the why not game doesn't work.
I just can't understand why a dead horse has to be beaten over and over about raising of tanker damage cap? Its like a kid whining until he/she gets their way.
Wasn't the thread about discussing the new tanker powersets?
Any more of this and I will turn this thread around and we will go home.
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Why yes.. yes it is|
Originally Posted by BeastMan
Wasn't the thread about discussing the new tanker powersets?
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MA anyone?
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I think its funny that scrappers are
Considered over powered along with brutes because they start with lower base hit points, lower base resistance and less based defence than a tank but more dmg, yet no one mentions the fact that well built trollers can tank LR in the stf? Actually well built trollers can do anything. Also tanks can very much do tremendouse dmg "thanks LSK for the quote"
I dont really know what to say
Electric Armour and the Soft cap
Electric Armour and the 1st 20 levels
Thundra Knight
click here for You want the best TANK!? I'll let you decicde!
Quote:
....|
Originally Posted by untoldhero
I think its funny that scrappers are
Considered over powered along with brutes because they start with lower base hit points, lower base resistance and less based defence than a tank but more dmg, yet no one mentions the fact that well built trollers can tank LR in the stf? Actually well built trollers can do anything. Also tanks can very much do tremendouse dmg "thanks LSK for the quote" |
Long ago, I did an ITF with an old SS/wp brute. It had maybe...half a build on it? Four or five sets.
This was long before incarnates, etc.
I was running with a crew of fellows I used to hang with, they never did anything unless they had three cold/sonics. On this particular run, they also brought a fire/kin and some lowbies.
In the last battle I was hitting Rommy for 2049 points with each knockout blow. It's still the hardest I've ever hit anything. Ahhh, memories.
If the numbers matter that much to you, brutes are better. Sorry.
Also, everybody knows how broken controllers are. The Dev's seem to be cool with it, to the point that they're removing controllers from the available archetypes for free players.
The freebies only get to play the rest of us second class citizens, after all.
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Ya I was tired of hearing how tanks can not hit for above a certain amount and remembered what you said on another post|
Originally Posted by untoldhero
I think its funny that scrappers are
Considered over powered along with brutes because they start with lower base hit points, lower base resistance and less based defence than a tank but more dmg, yet no one mentions the fact that well built trollers can tank LR in the stf? Actually well built trollers can do anything. Also tanks can very much do tremendouse dmg "thanks LSK for the quote" |
Going what you said, I have done an all troller MoITF pre incarnates and we went through most of the content like a hot knife through butter including GW. Then we went against Lord Recluse. I kind of felt sorry for him for he did not know what hit him. So yes controllers can tank, heck I had my ice/storm troller took out both of the NPCS on a LGTF that we was not going to fail, and it was before I put any IOs in it and still had SOs.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
considering Brutes would still having only 10% less max HP.
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Now make a list of the number of Brute secondary power sets that can permanently sit close to their Max HP cap on their own.
Hint: Only 2 of them out of a total of 9.
Quote:
Heh.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Now make a list of the number of Brute secondary power sets that can permanently sit close to their Max HP cap on their own.
Hint: Only 2 of them out of a total of 9. |
Claws/inv on a brute is SICK.
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People keep saying how amazing Brute Claws is.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Heh.
Claws/inv on a brute is SICK. |
And yet I see no top Pylon times with Brute Claws.
So show me proof.
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I ain't gotta show you nuttin, bunkie. |
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
People keep saying how amazing Brute Claws is.
And yet I see no top Pylon times with Brute Claws. So show me proof. |
But, ehn, whatever.
I have a claw/inv scrapper i made the first week the game was out. LOVE that toon.
A while back, I started up a claw/inv brute, to see if the hype was real. I got the brute to 45 and lost interest: It was already obvious how much beefier the brute was, and the damage was absolutely there.I put together a build, if I ever decide to brush the rust off the brute I'll put this on it:
Code:
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Man, what a monster.
I make no claims this is the best damages out there, and I care not a fig about beating up lol pylons. But this toon as presented is a beast, tanker tough and scrapper damage.
If I wanted to purple it up and tinker a bit with slot optimization, I'm sure it could be made considerably 'better', but I don't terribly care. Focus, followup, spin, it's all ya need.
Claws/inv on a brute is a BEAST.
Quote:
Three when Regeneration hits.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Now make a list of the number of Brute secondary power sets that can permanently sit close to their Max HP cap on their own.
Hint: Only 2 of them out of a total of 9. |
Ok I am getting confused I thought this was thread was for tanks? I did not realized it was for brutes and scrappers? ( damn ran out of popcorn)
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Solid build, but i think if you add eviscerate and shockwave you would get better mitigation, those are 90' arc cone attacks and shockwave does knock back, a handy tool... Jump behind the foes and boom shock wave them straight into the team wich hopfully is unloading AoE carnage at them.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
I ain't gotta show you nuttin, bunkie.
But, ehn, whatever. I have a claw/inv scrapper i made the first week the game was out. LOVE that toon. A while back, I started up a claw/inv brute, to see if the hype was real. I got the brute to 45 and lost interest: It was already obvious how much beefier the brute was, and the damage was absolutely there.I put together a build, if I ever decide to brush the rust off the brute I'll put this on it: Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1437;700;1400;HEX;| |78DA65945B53525114C7F7E61C34100242C51B28784DF008A90FBDD44CA99393CC8| |8769B5E18D22D1CA5030358F9D667E8A5A7AE1FA4B2DBB7E9F2DE85D659FFAD31C3| |19E0B7F7FFACBDD69F7516E49FAC0684787A55C8BEEBD552B359BCD6386A296FBE5| |4B677FD376A4EAD51AA1473977B851011BE55CCABAA5216053F6EC6A1ACAA7DE534| |95B5E13C3AAA3AAA517A6057EDD67164C3A9A886725AD6E922B455AB55AD4D55DA5| |38D66C5AE074EF775DB290779B36E972B2DDAF979B753576A6F78AD6EEF5A6B94B8| |7C5CCC979A2DD53886CD217295A6F76E50E8ABED1587849CF01C30CC7D464F99315| |561CCDA8C77EE01C9A74CB12C5D693ECB58C801970C468C7671B117D4D154446E11| |52C2536098DB8C9E1D463FB24F9D7884888AF7B43174116385D306502B8C5A17970| |094FC40815E847BBD77583A7F1B28206E1B4677805B0C45D67AB5B55EC1A6CFB53D| |8C5F0CFF6FE00F23F09711A1233ED4327C039C68260C44198B3739D520C5F521CED| |387B8443F238970490178026D2388CE24D199497466169DF9489F215D3094A2C5AC| |0827185349C6CC38A342C922FAEB44DE72372FBC015E30065F02AF1863AF19FB742| |A2A3D7C2A8A2118C2100C6108463004231882313C2683BC0F684F03F09480A70978| |4AC2538CE262F02462A3DC1793A461DD9761F465027D99405F3ED3AD51293960748| |5601A22A199D3FC4488EB24710C46068391C1449CD0AD710488F10C7BFEE276539F| |49A1F0240A4FA2708A9C4D23404EA731F311D4F311E774BAB9E7180792D23A3A0D2| |9F38C51A6965AF8D2A6F590A5C52A70C0C81D0236E32B0566758FB2697632669EFD| |32E94597D8EC5416D8DB9679F6CB121276D7DD28B9EE4A6D5F58B833CDEBF9AE7CD| |92E25D7A52C7529CB5DCA373F15D48D91F0F5A353BAC27F02DF3BA5398EFAF95F92| |12EDEB47FB0A7E5783F1BB1DEBFB1DEB7B1D6BBE0A513AAA857FA56FE3A3| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| Man, what a monster. I make no claims this is the best damages out there, and I care not a fig about beating up lol pylons. But this toon as presented is a beast, tanker tough and scrapper damage. If I wanted to purple it up and tinker a bit with slot optimization, I'm sure it could be made considerably 'better', but I don't terribly care. Focus, followup, spin, it's all ya need. Claws/inv on a brute is a BEAST. |
I dont really know what to say
Electric Armour and the Soft cap
Electric Armour and the 1st 20 levels
Thundra Knight
click here for You want the best TANK!? I'll let you decicde!
Quote:
But Johnny, I thought that extra survivability was unnecessary.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
You support raising resistance caps on Scrappers, already one of the highest performing ATs, without a commensurate decrease in damage. But Tankers aren't allowed to have their damage cap raised without gutting their survivability?
|
At least that's what you keep saying whenever I bring up the survivability advantage tanks have over everyone else.
You said repeatedly, in this very thread, that tanks' survivability advantage doesn't matter because anyone can reach the same level of survivability as a tank with all the IOs and Incarnate powers and such. If that's truly the case, why should you care if tanks have to give up a little bit of their unnecessary survivability advantage in exchange for more damage potential?
But now, when I support an increase to scrapper resistance caps, suddenly that survivability advantage is an important difference?
And I'M the hypocrite.
Right.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
Anyone claiming how amazing Claws is on a brute is saying that because of how stupid good Spin is.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
People keep saying how amazing Brute Claws is.
And yet I see no top Pylon times with Brute Claws. So show me proof. |
Spin isn't going to help on a Pylon time.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Yes. Yes you absolutely are.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
And I'M the hypocrite.
|
.
Quote:
No. No he absolutely is not.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Yes. Yes you absolutely are.
. |
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
That's why adding defense to resistance based builds makes for such a powerful character. When defense fails (and it will), they have resistances, and usually a self-heal to fall back on. An SR tank would only have slightly more HP than an SR brute, and nothing to soften the blow when their defense fails. I have a feeling that it will lead to SR tanks being undesirable for some tasks in the game. For instance: That autohit Nictus in the ITF is going to SUCK for them. As are DE and Veng buffed Nemesis. And Rularuu eyeballs. Even non-positional Psionic damage is going to suck, as SR lacks a self heal or a way to really increase their max HP much (which is about all an Invuln can do about Psi)
Just getting to the soft cap does not mean you are suddenly as survivable as a Tanker. There's more to it than that. Is a soft capped Blaster or Defender as survivable as a Tanker? Not that I've ever seen. It does help, but defense alone does not make a squishy AT suddenly non-squishy.
In fact, I think a Regen tanker without modifications would be in even more trouble than an SR tanker without modification (a lot more) but in at least one respect the regen tanker would have a small advantage. A regen tanker that pops four small lucks gets to be soft-capped with regen's healing ability for one minute. It takes a whole heck of a lot more respites than four to equal regen's healing capability for one minute.
With no insps at all, I'm guessing an SR tanker is going to be much stronger defensively than a Fire tanker. It won't even be close. But the Fire tanker will have a small edge in alpha strike resilience, and there will be a break even point where above a certain amount of inspiration usage the fire tanker will be capable of overtaking the SR tanker.
And that's separate from the fact that defense buffs are among the most common team ally buffs and the SR tanker will, most of the time, benefit exactly zero from them.
All of these little things are going to add up.
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