untoldhero
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I think you hit the nail on the head. I agree some power sets seem weak as a tank but thats not to say that tanks are inferiour in anyway. What i dont understand is why certain people think tanks are broken? I think power selection is very important to the feel of your characters performance. Ice melee isnt the greatest dmg set around but it provides some nice alternative mitigation which is important to a tank. I good example of Ice melee thats workable is the Resistance based sets (that dont incorporate IO's) Fire Aura for example running on standard IO's or SO's benefits very well paired with Ice melee. Where as Fire melee does more dmg but over all provides little mitigation support to the AT as a whole.Originally Posted by JayboH
. Personally I don't think tankers are really in that bad of shape - yeah, I wish they did more damage, of course - especially ice melee - man do I feel weak with that set.
The matter of the fact is tanks are in a good place and as so scrappers and brutes.
I for one have only just started my 1st brute ever and can honestly say i dont really like all that much so far. In the back of my head im thinking this guys isnt going to be tough enough to tank in end game content/ not like my tank.
The only up side is Brutes have a broadsword and taunt so its my best tankish AT for what i want to achieve. Until the Devs proliferate BS to tanks which i think is not going to happen? -
Hey guys been gone for awhile, came back and saw this wonderful thread. I particually like where tanks are in the game. I usually play tanks solo or team and have no issues with it.
I don't see a point with increasing survivability of what is already very on tanks. More than 90% caps is rediculouse and there dmg seems fine to me. But if you insist on trying to balance the the melee at's further than there really is only a few options to take.
1. Increase survivability of Tanks to exceed further caps and make them even tougher to stretch the gap further between scrappers and brutes.
2 Increase Tanker dmg/dmg cap to make tanks overpowered because they are now better than both brutes and scrappers. (this of course would would make scrappers and brutes redundant)
3. Nerf the resistance caps of brutes and scrappers to match stalkers and make crap, thus making tankers seem better again
4. Increase the difficulty of the game so softcaps are increased making it easier for tanks (but still difficult to reach) than brutes or scrappers
5. keep the game the same? -
Electricccccccccc............
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Thats rather unkind man in black. Assuming you understand the purpose of the thread I would suggest that was mean. Wheather you think it is a wasted amount of accuracy or not I do believe that softcapping is the title not maximising your recharge.
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If its defense you want on your ela tank have a look at my guide
Electric armor and the softcap. Its the big red writimg in my signature. I have good ela/ss build on it for you. -
Quote:Since we seem to play the "FYI" game I thought I would mention few minor details that upset me. I do not play 50 hours a week. I work full time (in the 50hr vicinity) im a full time husband, full time dad to a 2year old and I regularly exercise. I maintain a healthy social life too.Originally Posted by BeastMan
There's nothing wrong with "customers" venting their feelings about changes, events rescheduled and what not. I've given my praise for this games particulars and this one event I had lined up several friends with free trials to try the game during the double xp weekend. They activated them before the announcement to postpone and were interested in higher level powers in sets which the double xp "would've helped them reach. They don't want to be AE farmed but rather experience the game. Whether or not they sub afterwards would've been a gamble but I decided to take a chance. These are adults who game casually. There are more "casual" gamers than the "I game 50 hrs a week so I don't know what your complaining about" gamers. This game needs subscribers, its what keeps it going. I tried doing my part to get more subs, unfortunately this "trivial" matter ended that goal.
I play when my son sleeps in the afternoons on weekends 4-6hrs at most. Oh and I live in australia to, which means when I do usually play your all in bed. If anyone should winge about dbl xp its me, but guess what.... Its a game -
Quote:I dont think im taking a moral high ground and I do apologize for the offending manner, it was said in frustration. Im very passionate about the privilages we have, living in the country we do and fortunate to have such entertainment at our expense.Originally Posted by Aneko
Since you seem to think you're taking some moral high ground here, I should point out that the quoted section was un-necessary.
It upsets me when I see people complain about such trivial matters when others are so worst off. -
This thread cracks me up so much.
1. You all remind me of my 2 year old son who cries and waves fists when he won't get somthing he wants
2. Your consistant erge to use large words in a self proclaimed mission to prove your intelligence, doesn't, won't and can not justify your 2 year old behaviour.
Guess what this is a game and yeah its also a game that runs on technology. In case you didnt know? Technology tends to stuff up from time to time.
Did you ever consider that far more seriouse events are occuring at this very moment?? Like murders, theft, famine, pestiliance, earthquakes, tornado's oh and economic collapse?
I can just imagine it now? Tornado outside "i just gota get on the forums right now so i can winge about not being able to play because of the stupid life threatning chaos outside". -
You want defense have a look at my guide. Electric armor and the softcap. I have 2 ela/ss builds there. (its in my signature)
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Im hopeing this set is an indication of possible new sets that may in- corporate S/L resistance that defense based characters will stack. Not to the same standard as defense of coarse tho. But a nice 20%res buff from stacked bonuses would always be a nice addition to the 20% given from tough
I figure since resistance sets can softcap and layer that type of mitigation why not give the defense sets alittle more too? With SR and SD having a easy time getting softcapped it will add sum much loved survivbility and all new possobilities.
As for the thread topic I cant say im thrilled with the idea of a resist proc... We really need more info on it. How big the buff? How many times it will fire? How long it last? -
Phantasm can be buffed tho. So putting the aura in pa wouldnt nessicarily hurt. It wont effect pa but will phantasm. Unless that changed? Anyway like local man said, there isnt much res to stack with anyway so recharge would be better.
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Quote:Those build for positional are good solid builds. I have nothing really to add apart from one thing. Energize although a good component of ELA isnt a key to the set, power sink and lightning field is. Energize is a good heal but comes rather 2nd best compared to other power sets. Endurance drain is the key to mitigating dmg with a ela when funds are limited.Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
Having recently 50'd a Dark/Dark Tank my latest project is an Elec/Elec Tank. I'd like some help from the community for the build. However, if you don't mind I'd like to keep the price down. I'm mainly concerned with Recharge since Energize seems to be one of the keys of the set.
So, without Purple Sets, PvP IOs or a pile of Kinetic Combats, how do I get a solid build with near-perma Energize?
Thanks in advance for the help.
Power sink and lightnimg field do a great job at sucking your enemies dry and preventing them from attacking you. It will make it much easier time the moments you need to use a purple inspiration. Your best method of attack would be open with lightning rod then crank power sink. It should recharge within 20 seconds, enough to drain every mob you encounter. -
Quote:Im sorry I worded that wrong. What i'm trying to say is,Originally Posted by Auroxis
Don't forget the extra defense from Invincibility if you have lots of enemies in range. That and the DDR makes you almost immune to defense debuffs if you were softcapped to begin with, and it also helps in incarnate content.
Also, could you explain this part of the guide?
Judging by this it looks as if E/N/F/C attacks bypass positional defense, which is false.
Due to the fact that melee, ranged and aoe arn't catagorized by a particular type of dmg E.g energy. it was the actual physical cast itself is what I referred to. So whether it was fire or cold or negative energy because the element is in the physical form of ranged or aoe your defense will cover it due to the fact its a physical cast of those 3 catagories, melee/ranged/aoe. -
Quote:Apart from hp and defense debuff res, a softcapped ela will surpass a INV. Power surge ftw. (thats just my opinion tho)Originally Posted by BigBoss Eyepatch
I got 80% smashing and lethal resistance on my Electric Tanker.
something like 55 or 56% resistance to fire and cold.
Energy is 90%
Negative is at about 40% ish I think.
Psionics at about just over 50%
The only thing she is missing really is defences I got about 25% to most, and usually I carry a clutch of purples if I am getting hit too much I just eat purples, even a small purple is worth 7.5% 3 purples and Im untouchable. But given the cost of trying to "softcap" and the fact I don't really use her to be a tank, even though she is a Tanker, I'm happy with her as is. I didn't take lightning field so have no aggro aura, but sometimes even gauntlet is enough to get mob attention.
So I like Electric.
Invulnerabilty is just a beast and is probably the preferred tanking durability set. Plus you have the insanely risky but insanely good unstoppable to fall back on in a crisis, make those 3 minutes count!
Stone I would personally not use, too many cons and not enough pros with it. In my personal opinion. I leveled a stone tank to 25 and it was a nightmare every step of the way. -
Quote:While I understand your point of veiw and appreciate it, this is not the offical guide. The official guide is in the "player guide" section. I will incorporate all corrections stated in here, but I feel adding "purples" or "pvp" io's irrelavent. I did clearly state "HAS POTENTIAL TO HARD CAP" if I was going to explain the means to achieve the best mitigation possible for each power set I would have to go into detail about io's and how to slot for there best benefit.Originally Posted by Gashes
Please state (with the pvp 3% resist IO, you can cap SL) ... that IO is VERY expensive and unrealistic for 99.99% of us. In general, if it requires pvp or purples, it should be stated.
I read your guide more like 'ok, your new to this, this is what you can do'. Throwing in an 'oh, if you have a full set of pvp IO's ...', does not qualify and a starter guide. If you want 'if you have unlimited influence, this is how extreme you can go', that is a different matter, and doesnt belong in a miniguide. my opinion -
Um ill keep this short (as much as I like to gas bag), sorry watching tv with the wife. Ela with the glad shield +3% res. 89% res to s/l then just some frankenslotting and you got 90%.
I updated the guide in the player guide section. I altered a few things also do remember its a mitigation guide. I didnt want to go into too much detail with all endurance numbers and such. It was more for what different tank power sets offer in terms of mitigation. Ill have to update the EA recharge debuff in ice. I sorta didnt think it had much to do with mitigating dmg tho? thanks for the review too
I appreciate it. I knew I would miss some stuff.
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Updated
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Quote:So pretty much make tanks as deadly as brutes and scrappers with the same dmg mitigation as each other?Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Tanker damage caps raised so they deal the same damage at cap as Brutes, minus ~25% to compensate for Bruising and the HP cap difference.
or
Change the Tanker AT description on the site to be truthful like the first post in this thread says.
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Quote:Clearly disreguarding my earlier statement (pvp) 1.25 modifier would OP stalkers in pvp. Your telling me a hidden ,AS with 1.25 modifier wouldnt be OP? Thats scrapper dmg with stalker perks. Im sorry but although pvp may not be the main objective for 90% of players its still part of the game and im sure the devs want to try appeal to all tastes of player. I dont pvp but I may consider that stalkers are where they are because of it?Originally Posted by Jibikao
The funny thing is even if Stalker has 1.125 damage modifier, this AT still won't be overpowered as long as they have limited AoE potential.
I don't play Brute/Scrapper much but I've seen how a well slotted SS/Fire Brute performs or a Elec/Shield Scrapper/Brute. By the time my first Assassin Strike ends, they already kill most of the minions.....
Stalker is a very playable AT but "overpowered" does not belong to the same sentence as Stalker. In fact, I think Stalker is more balanced for the game any other melee counter-parts. Certain ATs are doing "too much" damage if you ask me (given the right situation and right set combinations).
Yes stalkers need attention but what degree I am not sure? Btw way the main argument in this thread was increaed HP cap not dmg modifing. -
Due'ly noted guys thankyou for revise. I'l be sure to update when I get home. I too felt FA was short changed and admittidly I got lazy. After spending so much time at the start i got eager to finish. Ill be sure to revise and incorporate.
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you wanna know what tank is best for you, lets see what works for you
You want the best TANK!? I'll let you decicde! -
The Un-told hero guide to Tanking Mitigation.
The Un-told hero guide to Tanking Mitigation.
A lot of people ask regularly “what tank power set is the best” There is NO real answer to this except “personal preference”. Due to this topic I figured I’d write a brief summary of what certain power sets do and what makes them good. There are 8 tank styles to choose from and all have strengths and weaknesses that suit different play styles. My goal in this guide (which I most likely will fail at) is to help shed a little tiny iddy bit of light on these 8 different tanks and their strengths and weaknesses.
Firstly by no means is this entire information mine. I simply have read the forums a lot and have collected information from far more experienced and intelligent people than myself. Also you should know that there is no tank build out there that is better than another. All tanks have the potential to be fantastic now that we have special Invention Origin enhancements. Some are easier to work with than others but ALL can become Superman.
Secondly I am looking at the tools that the devs have given us in the primary powersets that we use for mitigating damage/aggro. There are secondaries to consider as well but I don’t want to go into that because that will make this guide extremely long, and apart from being lazy I’m most likely going to be boring as well? I promise to try and keep it as funny as possible I SWEAR
I guess I better start with a few basics first before I start rambling on about things some of you may or may not know?
Damage:
Damage, much like tanks comes in different forms; there are physical damage types and elemental damage types. They all get categorized into two sections positional and typed
Positional isthe make-up for 3 forms (all three are physical forms)
1. Melee
2. Ranged
3. AoE (area of effect)
Typed is the make-up physical and elemental
1. Smashing
2. Lethal
3. Fire
4. Cold
5. Energy
6. Negative energy
7. Psionic
8. Toxic
Also all characters have an element of survivability and depending on the type of Archetype and powers sets you choose within your Archetype these elements will vary. This guide is about TANK primaries so I’m just going to quickly highlight the different elements that make tanks, well TANKS!
Resistance (the ability to resist damage- Tanks have a resist cap of 90% which means there is a potential to only receive 10% dmg)
Defence (the ability to dodge, deflect and evade incoming attacks- This will stop you from getting hit all together. The game soft cap is 45%)
Regeneration (the ability to heal health per second- some tanks are better at this than others)
Recovery (the ability to refresh your endurance- This is the engine to all your powers- without it any character/tank will die. Not only that but you won’t be able to use any of your attacks either)
Whewh!!!!
Now that we covered that I need to try and work out what is considered to be the most popular or common tank type in the game…. This is tough, seriously…..
Stone Armor:
Stone Armor is probably the most popular Tank in the game. It is one of the easier armors in the game to work with. Its final power (referred to as T9) is called Granite Armor. It’s a toggle based power and actually nullifies any other defence/resistance toggle in the set from working. You got it; you only need to run the one toggle for all your def/res goodness! Trust me it’s enough.
You get fantastic defence,
Fantastic resistance to all damage types except psionic
Once you add Rooted to the mix then you get
Ridiculous amounts of Knockback/hold/sleep/Immobilize/repel protection.
On top of that you get a great heal Earths Embrace that buffs your Max Hit points increasing your HP regeneration per second
And a AoE (area of effect) aura called Mud Pots that deals damage over time for any enemy in melee range which also immobilizes them and decreases their speed and recharge rate. So with the Combination of very high resistances and defence, you are also able to target the speed of which an enemy will attack you. A slower attack speed means fewer hits over time. Granted that when they actually do they must first try and actually land the hit by bypassing your defence and then if successful must try and cut through your resistance as well.
Of Course there are set backs though L there always is I know. We just can’t have these massive Boulders of love able to mitigate all this aggro from villains and not have some sort of setback.
1st you get a -65% to recharge. This means very slow refresh rate of your powers (your attack chain will recharge 65% slower than normal)
2nd there is a -30% to damage. That’s right 30% less damage than before.
3rd You run as fast a snail. I’m not kidding here; a snail would beat you in a race
4th You can’t Jump… Forget white man can’t jump, there aint no way you’re playing basketball either.
There are ways to fix these issues and that’s using special IO’s that can increase your recharge and run speed. You still can’t jump but you can at least fix your recharge and run speed. There is also team members that can buff you as well but that’s a completely different guide.
Invulnerability:
I remember my first invulnerability Tank… I was so green. I didn’t know what a tank was or its purpose. I just wanted the closest I could get to Superman. You guessed it Super Strength and Invun. I remember reading the descriptions of the powers (taunt: Taunts foe and nearby foes to ATTACK YOU!!!) I thought to myself “I’m only lvl 10 there is no way I’m getting that, I’ll friggin die!!!!!!!!” any who back on topic.
Mitigation strengths with Invun.
Invulnerability has hard capped resistances to smashing and lethal damage (the most common type of damage in the game)
And fair resistances to the rest of damage types except psionic (there is zilchL). But what makes this tank another very popular type of tank is the power
Invincibility. It will give you a bonus too defence against all attacks except psionic for every foe in melee range (counting up to 10, that’s when it stops) the 1st foes gives the greatest defence buff and then it scales from there, the 10th foes giving the least defence buff. Meaning this type of tank can easily reach the softcap of defence compared to other tanker types.
Complimenting this fantastic power nicely is
Dull Pain It buffs your max HP by oh just about double increasing your regeneration/second even higher. More Hp and more regen to take more hits with J
All three of these elements Resistance, defence and max hp/regen layer on top of each other making it that much harder to kill.
However if you find your green bar quickly turning red (and your thinking you’re about to sink harder than the titanic) you have a T9 power called
Unstoppbale this power lasts 2 minutes and generates hard capped resistances to all damage types except psionic and increases endurance recovery by 100%. Gota watch out with this power though… once the 2 minutes is up your health and endurance will drop to border line zero and all other toggles you are running will drop as well, making you extremely killable (remember that snail? You just got stood on) so if you do need to push the “EFFFF ME IM NEARLY DEAD” button be sure you kill whatever it is within 2 minutes.
Willpower:
Willpower is the third most popular tank I’ve seen in my Paragon travels, I’ve played 2 willpowers but could never seem to get past lvl 50 for some reason? O well I’m sure you will do a better job than me?
Poor willpower, I feel sorry for this tank set. It has a poor taunt aura doesn’t really get much resistance love apart from some “GOOD” smashing/lethal and psionic resistance and the potential to softcap to S/L/F/C/E/NE damage types. Unfortunately though, willpower still cops a beating because there isn’t really great defence debuff resistance for this set yet most people rely on it for survivability. Maybe that’s why the taunt aura is weaker? To try and negate the aggro more freely so the set doesn’t get overwhelmed?
Oh did I forget to mention this set also gets a massive +to hit points and a gigantic buff to regeneration? Also a –to hit that is cast on your opponents so they have a less chance to actually land a hit on you?
High pain tolerance gives a great buff to max HP and you actually have the potential to get very close the Tankers HP cap 3500 hp this works very well with your regen/sec
Rise to the Challenge Here is where it’s at for a Willpower tank. This is the toggle that will boost your regen from a mere 30ish hp/sec to well over 100hp/sec. Rise to the challenge works exactly the same as Invincibility does. Your regeneration is increased for every foe within melee range, for up to 10 foes. The 1st foe giving the biggest regen buff and the 10th giving the least.
So let us do some mathematics here. We will assume that our Willpower tank has been built correctly and has 3000 hp and a regeneration rate of 130hp/sec. We are fighting the aggro cap limit of 17 foes. They are producing the most common dmg type Smashing/Lethal. Consider we have 65% resistance to S/L and there maximum output is 200ea with an attack rate of (avg) 3 seconds. 200*.35=70hp/hit, 70*17=1190 dmg/cycle that means over 3 seconds you regenerate 390hp and the 17 foes will hit for a wopping 1190, your max hp is 3000. This gives you a little less than 10 seconds of life span.
Now we will incorporate soft-cap defence. 45% to s/l will lower your chance of being hit by 95%. That’s right you have a 5% chance of being hit. The same scenario means 17*.05=.85 (average 1 person every three seconds will hit you for 70 hp while you regenerate 390 hp in the same time frame.
Let’s stop for a second and stare in awe.
Ok that’s enough awe for now. So there we have it a Willpower tank that can mitigate just as well as any other tank.
Ice Armor:
Unlike the last 3 type of tanks which are inheriting hybrids of Resistance/defense/regeneration we have looked at, this type is a defense type tank. It has very little resistance to negate damage but has very high defense. In fact this is very easy to achieve soft-cap with (you kinda need to get soft cap)
Its inherit powers focus on Typeddefense.
1. Smashing
2. Lethal
3. Fire
4. Cold
5. Energy
6. Negative Energy
7. Psi
Looking at our example we used in the Willpower section we will assume the following
17 foes in range (aggro cap)
200 dpa/ foe every 2 seconds
45% defesne (5% chance of being hit)
Meaning 1 in every cycle of attacks will land for the full 200 hp. Not a lot, but let’s consider the chance we are a lead tank in a taskforce or an important story arc. One where we must face an Arch-Villain in the end. Most likely 5% of the time they may hit you, let’s say its Maurder. He hits a Hard-capped resisted tank (90% res) for 400 hp with Knockout blow.
Some more fun math (I hate this crap)
600 is 10% of the total output here, max damage can be 4000+
Now the base value for tanks is 1800hp. I think we can see here that 4000 is a greater value than your 1800. In fact even if we select the power pool tough we will only get 23.6% resist to S/L
4000*.764=3056 dpa. Still much higher than the base value.
Luckily for Ice tanks though they have some special little tricks up their sleeves to boost that survivability. They have a power called
Hoarfrost: this power slotted correctly can buff your HP to the cap (or at least very close) A quick build I came up with got me 3300hp. It can become permanent meaning that your hp will stay at that value.
Now I know what you’re thinking… But that’s only 240 hp left over!? Which is why there are these powers?
Chilling Embrace: this has a -32% speed/recharge debuff cast on all foes within melee range (a PbAoE) and also has a -14% DMG debuff
So that 6000 becomes 4000*.14= 560, 560-4000= 3440, 3440*.764= 2628 dpa. Ohhhh that’s a bit better now
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On top of that you have many other means of dealing with damage to help synergize your build such as endurance drain and a special power called
Hibernate: This is a special power that self holds you and increases your health regeneration and endurance recovery and astonishing rates. Meaning if you are scared for your life you can taunt your foes so they stay focused on you and then POP Hibernate. You won’t actually be able to attack anyone but they won’t be able to attack you either. Then once you are done healing, you bust out of your ICE BERG I love and join the fight once more!
Shield Defense:
Shield is vastly becoming a common power set amongst tanks. They are very easy to play and don’t cost a lot to soft-cap. Unlike Ice Armor this defense AT (Archetype) uses positional
Melee
Ranged
AoE
these 3 are the makeup of all the attacks you will encounter in the game. You get slightly more resistances than Ice Armor and you also get a crafty power that will buff your HP called True Grit but what really brings this game into its own are the following powers
Against all Odds works just like invincibility and rise to the challenge, but buffs your damage output instead of your survivability. It will give you a 65% increase to dmg if you're surrounded by 10 enemies at any one time. this also stacks on top of whatever buff your secondary gives you!
Phalanx Fighting is the toggle that will buff your defense. If unslotted it will add 3% defense to every ally close to you, for up to a total of 3 allies. Thats a total of 9%. The more you slot it the larger the buff but 5% is really the most you will get out of this power. This really is enough. That’s 15% if you have three team members close to you in battle.
Shield Charge is an offensive power in this great set. It is a targeted AoE, which means you can put your little target cursor in the middle of a mob and swooosh to bash 'em with your shield. You will knock them all down giving you a chance to catch your breath and make your next move.
If after all this you still find yourself being saved by your team mates you have a secret weapon, your T9
One with the Shield same as unstoppable/Strength of will it will but your S/L res by 30% and all other types by 15%. Increases regeneration by 30%. Not as epic as unstoppble but you don’t carry the tremendous crash risk as an Invun does. You will only drop to 40% endurance afterwards meaning all your toggles will remain up and running.
The last 3 power sets im about to mention are Resistance based SETS unlike defense based characters which struggle to increase resistance, resistance based characters have the potential to become hybrid builds much like Invun/Stone/Willpower. Although they don’t actually inherit defensive powers, they can utilize power pools that will give them a fighting chance. I would call these, the distance cousins of the Hybrids. You got the gift NEO you just need to find your way... as the oracle would put it.
Fire Aura:
We have looked at the hybrids and the defense orientated power set, now it’s time for the opposite end of the rector scale. Solely resistant based. Fire Aura was one of the first power sets designed in city of heroes. For some time there it also was the most powerful tanker set as well. It unfortunately got nerfed and was then considered a weaker power set. But as i stated earlier in this guide "all power sets can be superman". Fire aura is no different.
A basic fire aura tanker will have numbers similar to the following listed
Smashing 71%
Lethal 71%
Fire 90% (hardcap)
Cold a whopping 15%
Energy 47%
Negative energy 47%
Psi 0%
Toxic 20%
Smashing/lethal/energy being the most common of dmg types we will work out our math’s accordingly.
17 foes hitting at 200 dpa with 71% resistance
44*.71= 12.76
13*17= 221 hit points every 3 seconds
1800 base hit points
1800/221 = 8.1 total cycles
This means within 24 seconds you will be dead. I haven’t taken hp regeneration into account in this scenario, just the resistance factor. Some of the tools we have to combat this are.
Healing Flames with basic slotting will recharge every 20 seconds and replenish roughly 50% of your health. 1800/2= 900 hp. You've increase your lifespan by 12 seconds- still not enough is it. Well like i said Fire Aura has been considered one of the weaker sets in the past. It is quite tough but it really shines once you softcap some defense
If you manage to find a guide or get the help you need to softcap your FA tank be very happy. Fire tanks though considered underdogs, once built right produce the most DPS a tank can, along with superman status.
Fiery Embrace much like against all odds will stack with any secondary dmg buff by adding dmg fire to all your attacks. This is popular because the increased dmg buff is what really makes your damage/second stand above other tanker sets.
Burn maybe considered a non-mitigation tool but I still like to think of it as one. It is an added AoE attack that adds immobolize protection, and of course, does a heap of damage. Its reacharge is quite quick and will make you toast your enemies even faster , meaning "dead enemies are harmless enemies".
Consume Is a power i will mention, although not a mitigation power is a helpful power that allows certain play styles decide if Fire Aura is for them. Consume is another minor AoE but absorbs endurance at the same time. It will effect up to 10 foes in melee range and although wont actually drain them of endurance will fully replenish your own.
Electric Armor:
Electric Armor is my favorite type of tank. Their resistance level rival that of a Stone tank and will not only hard cap Energy but has the potential to hard cap Smashing and Lethal dmg too. It works very much the same way as a Fire tank does.
All resist and no defense. In fact I will go as far to say. That due to the only real set back being NO DEFENSE that if this power set did get defense powers then Electric Armor would be extremely over powered. And here is why, electric gets a few more little tricks to play with that help with mitigation.
Lightning Field is a damaging aura and is what keeps enemies focused on you; it how ever has a very special element. It sucks your enemies’ dry of their endurance.
unslotted for endurance drain you will suck 3%/2seconds. Sucking your enemies’ dry of endurance is of great advantage to you. This prevents them from attacking you. Much like you, if they run out of endurance they can't attack.
Power Sink is another special trait of the Electric. It sucks the endurance of up to 10 foes within melee range and replenishes your own. The more foes you hit the more endurance you get back. But you must be careful, if there are no foes around you at the time, it will be a wasted effort. Combine this with lightning field and you are mitigating damage using solely just the tools given within the set. There is no way the group of enemies is going ever to be able to hit you if they don’t have endurance to attack with. Combining this power with Lightning field and even without defense you’re a mitigating machine.
Energize is a click power that has 3 special aspects to it.
1. Heals up to 50% health
2. Increases regeneration for 30 seconds
3. Decreases endurance usage by 59%
Recharge is nowhere near the same as healing flames in the FA set and is unfortunately about the same heal buff. But like I said, you get a few extra perks that come with it.
Dark Armor:
Yet another diamond in the rough when it comes to power sets. Previously mention ALL resistance based power sets have an easier time getting to the softcap of defense then defensive sets getting to hard capped resistance. Dark Armor is no different. Of course though, instead of blabbing on about how to get soft-capped and all that nonsense where there are far better qualified players than me for that) I’d rather share other form of mitigation this power set has so you don’t need to spend a poop-load becoming superman/neo/ any other ridiculously powerful hero you may know.
Dark Regeneration is the best self-heal in this game. It works like power sink, but is a HP healer instead of an endurance drainer. If you manage to draw the life of 10 foes you will heal almost 500% you max hp. That’s thousands of health. On top of that huge heal it can also recharge at the same levels as Healing Flames. My DA tank recharges Dark Regen in 13 seconds! The only real set back to this power is you need to have a good amount of accuracy slotted so it will hit all the affected foes. Mine is about 158%. Luckily for you though that there are 2 more powers you can utilize if you find yourself in too deep (jaws deep)
Oppressive Gloom this toggled power won’t use much endurance to run but at a cost. It will drain your hit points. In return for your own life force it will disorientate the enemies around you. Yes they won’t attack you because there dizzy. Just remember that it’s sucking your own life away though.
Cloak of Fear will suck your endurance dry. This toggle is very endurance heavy and at minimal gain. This power cast fear on your enemies within the same range as Oppressive Gloom. Unlike Oppressive gloom however, this power only works effectively when you don’t attack the enemies. If you attack them then they will stop being frightened and attack you back, they will incur a –to hit debuff though. Some may find the debuff worthwhile and others argue that Oppressive gloom is a better mitigation tool, in the end its entirely up to you as the player.
Well that concludes this little guide. It wasn’t supposed to be as big as this but I got carried away. Could you imagine what would have happened if I was putting secondary’s into consideration? Sheesh. Um I hope I covered everything and please feel free to let me know what I may have missed or got wrong.
(disclaimer: All math’s are examples, figures were taken from my builds created in Mids and damage and recharge times were averaged guess’s for the shear purpose of this guide)
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Quote:Your right in saying my stalker is lvl 32. Never got past that. I dont want to come accross argumentive.Originally Posted by Kioshi
untoldhero, you probably haven't played a Stalker at higher levels. I may be wrong of course saying you don't have a high-level Stalker, but at 30+ you're lucky to one-shot an orange LT with AS (if he doesn't resist your damage and using BU - you're not shaving half a pink boss' health, sorry, unless he's weak to your damage type, but in this case a scrapper or Brute would just breeze through mobs with AoEs).
Anyway the devs care about pvp less than Stalkers, and if you looked at the l33t pvper forums (I was never one, although I had an ice/psi permadom who got her fair share of kills, so fun killing tanks because it made them mad, but now my main tools on the toon, which I took 3 months to purple out, slows and hold, are useless in PvP). That's why all the Ice/EM tankers are obsolete too, defense is a joke in pvp and etc.
And well let's see how you survive a gang up of psi/em blasters now. As I was saying, the pvp-only crowd used to say that Stalkers weren't that big of a deal once you learned how to move. I did some arenas on my Ice/Psi and got AS'ed only when somebody else used Glue Arrow on me or something like that. It's not like you imply, 'one shot bosses' or 'kings of PvP' - my dom till i12 got a lot more kills and interesting duels than my EM/Nin Stalker, and as you said, you were ganged up, while my dom could kill a Stoner on her own. Of course since she wasn't mind/ like everyone else at the time she had her weak spots like /SR toons when defense mattered, I had to run from them, but it was very easy to run from melee. Again I was never a harcore pvper, was getting interested in it because of my domi but then... i13 came. Also, if you were ganged up by Stalkers you probably weren't moving enough, I'm not blaming you or anything because when I began pvping in Sirens I got AS'ed all the time.
I just don't see the point in having powers in your primary powersets that can't give you the full benefit like it does for everyone who share them (Tankers, Brutes, Scrappers, Kheldians, Crabs, even Banes). You'll only reach Scrapper cap all the time if you manage to get perma DP and accos and hp bonuses - with Stalkers you don't even need to have a DP-like power unless you are using as big heal with a disgusting recharge on the SO game, with IOs and accos it's not difficult to cap any Stalker so it's just working wrong. Why have HPT, DP, Hoarfrost, the +hp in Overload when you can't make use of it?
I'm not taking pvp into account, and even if I were, I don't think there would be any significant change - ok Thunderstrike would crit 100% of the time and TF would hit harder, but that just shows the sad state of pvp nowadays (people saying they prefer using Thunderstrike with the 50% chance to crit because it hits harder than AS due to animation times - I think, I saw a pvp'er I knew well write that in the forums).
I completely disagree with your argument that just because Stalkers don't have taunt auras (which only /Invul and /Shields have decent ones on Scrappers) they should be gimped and getting less than their +hp powers are meant to do. Yes threat level and damage can steal aggro from a Tanker but I used to do that with my fire/fire blaster too, and blasters have a threat level of 1 like all squishies (Stalkers and epic ATs have 2, except PBs and WSs in Dwarf which have 3, same as scrappers - Brutes and Tankers are threat 4).
Also, bear in mind that since damage plays a part in stealing aggro (that's why I stole aggro all the time with a fire/fire blaster), if your scrapper has a taunt aura and high damage, let's say a fm/sd, you'll steal aggro from a tanker basically all the time. And since you mentioned yours have capped HP maybe it's an invul? Also strong taunt aura, less damage than a /SD (AAO) but also capable of stealing aggro from a Tanker a lot of time. A regen can already do that, but a scrapper with a taunt aura+high damage has to be careful if he's not sturdy enough, I know my fm/sd died a lot of times when in SOs because everyone went after her after a FSC, unless the Tanker spammed taunt (which they never do of course, that's a waste).
That doesn't justify by any means getting at most 400 hp from powers that were supposed to give you close to or more than double. Even if they applied all the changes I suggested (upping Hide's def, 2kish HP cap, 100% AoE crit from Hide) I don't think they would get close to balanced with scrappers who get more AoEs and 100% +dam from BU.
I dont pvp any more because its broken. I melee'd pvp anywho, I was never good against ranged. As for the stalkers are "kings in pvp" I never implied. My point was stalkers are where they are so they wont become melee kings. I for one agree with the valid points that have been risen in this thread. I guess I was just trying to look for a possible justification as to why they are what they are.
personally tho I am not sure how to fix issues that could create over powered results, or make other AT'S seem redundant. -
SHOULD WE ALSO STATE FOR CONTROLLER DESCRIPTION "if built just right with io's and a well incoporated incarnate powers, this AT who at first seems weak can out perform all other AT's in every aspect of the game"?
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Why I see your compeling argument fair and just, I really can't see devs doing anthing. Stalkers are what they are and get good benefits for it. AS is a rather special power and pretty much one hits bosses. Im not 100% sure on this either but i think stalkers dont have as much of a taunt element with there powers like scrappers do. I find I dont steal all that much aggro from tanks/brutes like I can with my scrapper's. Scrappers only have the extra element f survivability due to the taunt potential. Also pvp must be taken into account aswell. Im not sure if the devs can suppress certain aspects of pve survivability like hp caps for pvp. The only reason I have ever survived stalker gang ups was because of capped hp on my scrapper.