So far, being disintegrated seems to be as lame as it sounded on paper
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-06-28 14:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I think this is, hands down, the best trial that has been offered. I also think that the final battle with Anti-Matter is the best AV fight in the entire game.
That being said, I hate the reliance on healers and regen and devaluation of other support/defensive sets in this trial, and I feel the final fight with Anti-Matter overly penalizes melee types. But I still love it overall because it feels like I'm fighting Dr. Doom due to the number of tools at his disposal.
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For all the arguing back and forth about whether it is too hard, the fact is that it IS tedious and far too much hassle. Players will run it once or twice then never again.
I hope the Devs keep track of the attention it gets because at some point they WILL be forced to remove at least 1 or possibly 2 of the "special" things that happens during the final fight.
It's like someone brainstormed possible game mechanics for the AV fight but at the last second just said" heck, let's do ALL those things at the same time!" O.o
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This trial isn't as a simple as BAF. It's a bit more complicated than Lambda. It requires a lot of coordination.
I can only imagine what the next one is going to be like 
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And this trial involves most characters in the other aspects, so what's the problem? Really no need to nitpick one detail out of the entire trial and ramp things up in your head so badly that the entire thing hinges on this one ability, because it JUST. AIN'T. SO.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I don't see any other task in the game where the success is tied to a specific mechanic only found in a select few powersets or specific incarnate powers (you all make it sound like Rebirth is the only valid Destiny choice ; it doesn't seem unreasonable to craft one specifically for Keyes, but it's not the only option), save for maybe Hamidon, which I dislike for that very reason, but at least Hamidon tries to involve most characters with the melee/ranged/hold/heal differences.
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And really, out of a trial of 24 people it's not at all unrealistic to expect a couple people with some sort of Ally heal, or for melee types to take the self heals in their armor sets, which most of them have.
Just like things go a lot more smoothly in a BAF where tanking ATs are smart enough to watch their sequester rings, and there are a couple controlly types to make Prisoner escapes go easier, Keyes has a few points that are really smoothed over by some heals.
Totally not the same thing as relying on healers, and I kind of resent your hysterics making it sound like it does.
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Not exactly sure how you speed run BAF to be honest. Normal run are speed runs I guess, while grind runs are the exception [intentionally leaving the AVs up while they beat on you to farm adds].|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Considering I just ran a BAF (first trial in two and a half weeks) and earned 4% towards Judgment, it definitely depresses me. "Only" 24 more speed runs before I can start working on Lore.
I agree, I'd rather farm solo (and I'm not much of a farmer). At least there would be no 30 minute waits between missions. |
I think I should refine my comment about the Greens. Yes it is a bit rough, and folks do tend to die alot during it [currently]. Hosp trips work out nicely in your favor for stocking up greens. But it isn't a good solution really, it's a solution that only alleviates a problem that exists [since if you're dying, there's a problem].
I do agree that there's too much focus on recovering from damage, however, the problem I see is that the other means of avoiding damage are far too absolute which lends itself to this situation. :x
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That's why I said "square one" not "and the trial fails"|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
So, here's my experience:
The KIR can be accomplished with whole teams wiping out, a constant train of dead people running back from the hospital, and Anti-Matter healing back up to full five times before being brought down. This is *NOT* a one-person's-mistake-ruins-it-for-all mechanic. |
I can understand people wanting something more complex and just plain wanting more content, maybe people have a thicker skin than me and are fine yelling at that their other league members over and over again.
But this isn't fun, it's not too hard, not too complex, just tedious
Even _aside_ from the bugs and poor UX/UI:
The whole temp-power mechanic reeks of poor UX
Game _still_ crashing (since the GR launch)
Unable to rejoin instance
Anti-matter disintegrate->time freeze, nothing anyone can do
Anti-matter start obliteration beam-> time freeze, heal while we're on the floor
NPC (Pet/Anti-matter) pathing, it terrible
Pet zoning bugs
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I don't know if they're depressed about it. They get a thrill when players 'solve' it. Don't know if the thrill lasts when they're solving it in 10 minutes. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I wonder if that depresses game designers.
So now we can farm three trials a night. K. I'd still rather farm stuff solo. |
Wonder how Mr. Rubik feels?
But the Devs do count on players solving what seems like on paper extraordinarily difficult tasks and then making them seem trivial. This means when players in Beta or Live start screaming "too hard!", they pretty much ignore it until there's been multiple attempts over a period of time.
I think the +5 foes in the LRSF was the only one they purposely dialed down on given the power level of the folks at the time.
Incarnate toons can now crush a +5 LRSF if it existed.
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Okay here's my two influence....
1.) You can dodge the Disintegration Ray/Beam. It's a huge green location AoE and there's a pop-up saying, "Disintegration Ray started!" (or something; unless it's changed). Jump/fly/tp away and tada, no one needs to worry about getting healed.
Sure there will be times when you mis-click and use a long animating power and might get hit but...in general now that you know this, just be careful. It's kind of like the Apex (Battle Maiden AV fight)...if you know swords are going to fall down in a few seconds; use small/fast attacks.
2.) Yes healing is "needed". As others have said (only read through 1.5 pages), bring greens, destiny or empaths/pain doms./etc...
I will say that it is (was when I was in beta doing it) hard to see who is getting disintegrated and that was one of the main points brought up in beta. I agree that the person(s) getting disintegrated should be shown in the trial UI somehow.
But even if you die, AM heals from it, but I've seen where he doesn't heal to 100% every time...not sure why not...but maybe it's just a percentage of his HP healed *shrugs*
3.) If you're worried about PUGs, teach them! Tell them what to expect/try to show them. Sure some won't listen but ya never know it might help!
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Don't know, but back in the day I soloed the cube in under two minutes regularly. No minimum team requirements there.
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You need healing and holds in a Hami raid, not to mention a good tank/brute.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I don't see any other task in the game where the success is tied to a specific mechanic only found in a select few powersets or specific incarnate powers.
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You need holds for a Lady Grey Task Force.
You need a defender or Master Mind on a Barracuda Strike Force.
Just saying.
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When I ran this during the one-day open beta, it became really clear to me that it was very strongly encouraging the old first-version Hami raid tactic of a mass of characters moving around the map under an autofire healing umbrella. But then you have the alpha/beta effects to force players to spread out, defeating that.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
The only thing that seemed to help were... heals. Heals, heals, heals.
This seems so very ludicrously silly to me. This game went away with the Holy Trinity, why reintroduce it in the highend game? Not to mention it makes empaths and pain domination much more effective at the task than, well, pretty much every other powerset out there including most of the other support powersets. I'm sure many bubblers feel super happy about their effectiveness in the new trial, that is, the remaining three or four players that still play one despite getting shafted again and again by the endgame. |
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I'm glad there are different mechanics in this trial. This game is way too easy, including this trial.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
I done it just once and it was fun, especially since half of the people was doing it for the first time. (we succeeded)
My impression is that it is to confusing in the end, red, blue, green beams, messages just appearing and you don't know what is what, but after few runs think that it will become easier.
Time freeze is cheating! (I want that power - always wanted to have pause button in MMO games 
)
Biggest problem is lag and not being able to return after crash. (alliance leader can change, he can crash also, and I'm not that good in remembering the names and I even have problem seeing names in league window, so can't just send tell and ask for reinvite)
Think I'll just go back to leveling my lowbies until that is fixed.
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There are two effects you're mixing I think.|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Okay here's my two influence....
1.) You can dodge the Disintegration Ray/Beam. It's a huge green location AoE and there's a pop-up saying, "Disintegration Ray started!" (or something; unless it's changed). Jump/fly/tp away and tada, no one needs to worry about getting healed. Sure there will be times when you mis-click and use a long animating power and might get hit but...in general now that you know this, just be careful. It's kind of like the Apex (Battle Maiden AV fight)...if you know swords are going to fall down in a few seconds; use small/fast attacks. 2.) Yes healing is "needed". As others have said (only read through 1.5 pages), bring greens, destiny or empaths/pain doms./etc... I will say that it is (was when I was in beta doing it) hard to see who is getting disintegrated and that was one of the main points brought up in beta. I agree that the person(s) getting disintegrated should be shown in the trial UI somehow. But even if you die, AM heals from it, but I've seen where he doesn't heal to 100% every time...not sure why not...but maybe it's just a percentage of his HP healed *shrugs* 3.) If you're worried about PUGs, teach them! Tell them what to expect/try to show them. Sure some won't listen but ya never know it might help! |
Disintegration and Obliteration. Obliteration is the one with the big visual queue. And not so much the one being discussed. Moving away is still helpful so you don't get pinged as much with incidental damage while under disintegrate.
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...Abandoned Sewer Trial? Also, (the post I12 version) is one of the few truly non soloable TFs in the game.
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
Hate to break it to you, but everything in this game is pretty damn simplistic. Something that requires you to actively pay attention is a huge plus in my book.
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Time Freeze is obviously the t9 power in Time Manup
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To be fair, many other MMOs use a Tank + Healer + DPS model where you basically have to spam heals on a tank who taunts while other people do the damage. There are variations and special tricks in some boss fights, but it generally boils down to tank + heal + DPS all the time, and only that combination can work. People who got as sick of that model as I did are likely to get annoyed when CoX starts adding content that seems to be the same boring formula that almost every other MMO uses.|
Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
Simplistic system? As opposed to what, load in and win, like everything else in this game?
Hate to break it to you, but everything in this game is pretty damn simplistic. Something that requires you to actively pay attention is a huge plus in my book. |
At least in this game there's plenty of alternative healing sources besides dedicated "healers". It's still a bit annoying to have an encounter that specifically requires burst healing (or capped resists, or massive defense, or any other specific mitigation strategy) since this game is usually built around not having specific required power types, but it's no worse than having to have holds in a LGTF. I think the main reason people gripe is that they're afraid we're moving toward formulaic raids with one specific required strategy like you have in [random fantasy MMO with 10+ million subscribers].
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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
This sounds awful.
Gah. Another WoW-style raid I won't see. Can we have some content for solo players, please? Eco. |
Well there is the new Praetorian zone coming with i21.
Pity that's only 5 levels worth of content in a levelling range (20-25/26) where there's already *tonnes* of content mind.
I'd actually say that AM final fight ISN'T where the fight is won or lost, that's in stage 2-3.
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I'm looking forward to First Ward and Issue 21 a lot, since I20 has very little for me.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Well there is the new Praetorian zone coming with i21.
Pity that's only 5 levels worth of content in a levelling range (20-25/26) where there's already *tonnes* of content mind. |
And I quite like the midgame, so that's plenry enough content catering to my likes for an issue afaic.
I wish they'd revisit older zones though, a la Faultline, instead of going for new shinies all the time. Boomtown, anyone?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
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Well don't do speed runs, then.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Considering I just ran a BAF (first trial in two and a half weeks) and earned 4% towards Judgment, it definitely depresses me. "Only" 24 more speed runs before I can start working on Lore.
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Get on MoBAF runs, or put together your own "keep AVs around while we beat up as many robots as possible" runs. You can get as much as 30% Judgement in one run, especially now that you don't need to be on the adds team to earn the iXP.
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Boss with a fight reset? Nah, don't think I'll bother.
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I had Anti-Matter pull a really dirty move on me with his Disintegration.
Disintegrate! *heal* *heal* TIME FREEZE! *dead*
That was just too funny, really. Points to Anti-Matter for being a dirty cheater.
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