So far, being disintegrated seems to be as lame as it sounded on paper


Aggelakis

 

Posted

Ok, I've had my rants, constructive suggestions time:

  • Make the disintegration FX _much_ bigger like a big sprite ring with a vertical spike to give people a chance to notice. Also its a signature power, it deserves to look impressive.
  • Set up a "no other special abilities" flag or self-buff power that fires at the start of Disintegration and Obliteration beam that last for the duration of the power to prevent them overlapping with each other and with the time-freeze, when these overlap you get potentially unavoidable deaths which is not fun at all
  • Put FX on the terminals, blue aura when uncharged, red when locked, have the blue stack x3 with uncharged so that one layer is removed per charge
  • Make the Gamma pulse FX fade in and out a little slower, there have been time I've blinked and missed it not realising that my heath is now <50%
  • Make Anti-Matters regeneration either pause a little before it starts or ramp up (then level off) to give people time to scramble over there
  • I'd scrap the entanglement schtick, it penalises Melee too much (Oh just thought, alternate option: if there was something other than AM that the players could wail on that would help in the battle, like if the regen terminals could be pre-damaged a bit (before the timestops happened), that would give one of the entanglement halves something to do rather than just move away from their opposites)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
.

So I tried Keyes, on a melee character, on a PUG. Everything was pretty fun up until the final fight with Antimatter. Not only there's a bazillion special things going on at once that apparently require you to not fight near other people (super nice for meleers when there's only one target in range) and sometimes move away from the only target in range (see previous parenthesis), but disintegration apparently either ignores resistances or does ludicrously high damage, seeing as I took ~1900 consistently on the 4th pulse.

The only thing that seemed to help were... heals. Heals, heals, heals.
I....take it you haven't yet run an Apex TF?


 

Posted

Quote:
Put FX on the terminals, blue aura when uncharged, red when locked, have the blue stack x3 with uncharged so that one layer is removed per charge
The terminals actually do have a visual cue: Target them and see to which degree their energy bars are full.


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
WORSE not worst. I say this in relation to the "pure" healer, "pure" taunter tactic that ignores a very large array of other abilities. I do not deride healing as "evil," such would be false hyperbole. What I don't like is the limit on abilities and tactics that this approach represents.
It is one set of tasks inside one long mission. People seem to have this idea in their heads that one mission is going to allow for all possible strategies and still allow for success. The only way to do that is to keep everything very, very simple.

You do not need, nor want pure taunters/pure healers. During the move AM around phase, you may want that (although it is likely the healer (if one is even needed, since this phase is a bit easier for a tanker to not need one) could also be assisting here and there beyond just focusing on the tanker if they get in range of enemy spawns/other allies). But before that I'd want my aggro monkeys attacking and on the end fight they should be attacking as well. Of course, the ones not on AM are also attacking a lot even during the drag him around phase.

Yes, each specific encounter is likely to have a more narrow subset of needs. This is not new and there is no magic way to design a scenario that makes that untrue (without the scenario being very flat, simple, and mindless).

On your semantic note: Your statement was intended to indicate that the tanker/healer strategy was not just bad, but exceptionally so. Plus, my statement was "one of the worst", which implies that it is merely on the bottom rungs, not necessarily the bottom-most. There doesn't seem to be much difference functionally between you saying, "some of the worse habits" and me saying "one of the worst habits". I certainly did not intend to mean any difference. In short, I disagree that a healer/tanker is a bad habit, although your pure healer/pure taunter scenario is undesirable, it is also a fallacy that the KIR encourages that overall and also very unlikely (although not impossible) to run into people who have made it to level 50 and want to be a pure anything.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vice_Virtuoso View Post
Few things that make this not as bad as people think:

1. Anti-Matter is very squishy compared to Siege/NS/Marauder, and I'm pretty sure the disintegration has a respectable recharge on it. The first time I did the trial, Keyes was at exactly 1% HP in the last fight, and disintegrated someone to get back to 24%. And, literally before I could finish my thoughts of "Aw, ****, and I thought we were about to finish this on the first try, I wonder what kind of **** he's about to pull now", he was already back down to 1%, then dead.

2. The entanglement (red/blue orbs) is practically unnoticeable, in terms of damage.

3. The orbital cannon (whatever its actual name is) is just like the WarWalker Orbital Lance: an obvious target reticle appears on the ground, and you have plenty of time to get out of it before it fires. It also doesn't do too much damage, particularly compared to disintegration (about half a corruptor's HP) -- the main thing is that you get held for a bit before it actually fires off if you stay in the reticle too long.

4. As far as I can tell, Anti-Matter uses ZA WARUDO each time he first hits 75%, 50%, and 25% HP -- like Hamidon's blooms. It appears he doesn't actually have his natural regeneration while he's healing -- just the visible healing tics of ~1300 HP every one or two seconds. This is actually less than it sounds, when you consider point number one. He healed to full from the first one, but the second and third time he did it, the amount he healed was barely even noticeable (perhaps this was due to the team realizing what exactly to do).
These are pretty much all on the money. Anti-Matter does have one more attack that I haven't seen mentioned here: Systemic Decay, which damages and/or debuffs (haven't looked at the info for a while) players who stand still for too long while in melee range of Anti-Matter. Aside from that, though, everything quoted is right on.

Anti-Matter himself isn't a hulking beast of an AV; he just happens to have a lot of tricks at his disposal. And how those tricks are situated CAN cause some to think he has "unstoppable" attacks. For example: his time freezing is based on his HP, whereas the Obliteration beam and Disintegration are both on recharge timers, so the effects sometimes overlap. Of course, enough -recharge thrown on him will minimize the threats of Obliteration and Disintegration.

Believe me, the Keyes trial is absolutely possible to complete, and with fairly minimal trouble. It does take communication and teamwork, though. If someone knows what to do, they need to tell the rest of the league, and the league needs to listen.


Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."

 

Posted

I actually really like the AM fight, especially compared to Marauder. (Big brick with a ton of HP but very few tricks) and AM (very squishy but has an entire bag full of nasty tricks)


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

Posted

Just as a hypothetical, since I haven't run the Keyes raid yet, but it seems like his "penalty" for failing to Disintegrate a player is not in line with the benefit for success. Zeroing out endurance on an AV seems rather meaningless in and of itself, since they have so much and recover so quickly. Perhaps if the risk was a bit more balanced to the reward, it would feel less frustrating to people?


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
Just as a hypothetical, since I haven't run the Keyes raid yet, but it seems like his "penalty" for failing to Disintegrate a player is not in line with the benefit for success. Zeroing out endurance on an AV seems rather meaningless in and of itself, since they have so much and recover so quickly. Perhaps if the risk was a bit more balanced to the reward, it would feel less frustrating to people?
And it zero's out the *player's* endurance as well.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater View Post
Believe me, the Keyes trial is absolutely possible to complete, and with fairly minimal trouble.
From my perspective (as I've said) its not impossible, its not ever particularly hard, its just annoying. It is very much possible to get into "There is no way we could have avoided that" situations like a time stop after an obliteration beam starts, resulting on the team being on the floor (or dead) while AM is healing. These shouldn't happen, I've made suggestions above to how these could be prevented, that would help a lot.

The think is I don't see many people here saying that the trial is hard, just people saying that it isn't fun, those two things are far from synonymous.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
Suggestions: have an unmistakably brilliant aura that makes the disintegration target visible. Have pressure release valves that redirect the reactor pulses skyward, if they are clicked just before the pulse. This is interruptable, and guarded. This makes avoiding the disintegration death/heal more manageable, and gives different options than "HEAL EVERYONE!"
I think you're going about this the wrong way. It doesn't matter how bright an aura is, player aura soup will always be brighter. So, I think what we need is an aura that tall enough to tower ABOVE the playing field so that it's easier to see. Claim that Anti-Matter is using a satellite to disintegrate players an give them an aura akin to the "pillar of pain" from Broadsword, only where that extends seemingly to the centre of the earth, have the Disintegrate one extend to the top of the skybox. It's just about the next best thing to an arrow pointing to a character.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Did this raid on a pug last night easily my least favorite. AM would frequently aggro on my henchmen causing them to retaliate, breaking any attempts at effective keyes strategy which meant i either had to give up my dps and survivability by putting them into passive which made them fodder for the other npcs or releasing them. Only worth it for the emp merit i needed to get the glad def proc, don't think I'll ever do it again


 

Posted

On my last Keyes run I got targeted for disintegration twice, both times typed 'heal me', got healed, and went on my merry way. It simply requires a little bit of awareness, and fingers to type with.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
Just as a hypothetical, since I haven't run the Keyes raid yet, but it seems like his "penalty" for failing to Disintegrate a player is not in line with the benefit for success. Zeroing out endurance on an AV seems rather meaningless in and of itself, since they have so much and recover so quickly. Perhaps if the risk was a bit more balanced to the reward, it would feel less frustrating to people?
Sounds like -recovery could be pretty useful in this trial, then. Although, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that he can use the orbital cannon, entanglement, etc. without even having endurance.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
Picking a specific powerset is what you consider strategy?

I can see why a simplistic system returning to the roots of the Heal/DPS/Tank would appeal to you.
Have you considered turning your inspirations to greens and passing them?


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Have you considered turning your inspirations to greens and passing them?
Sounds painful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

I seriously read all 6 pages of this thread and I'm actually not shocked at all.

In the past 3 years people (not necessarily in this thread) asked in fact begged for end game content and we finally get it an this is what people act like. We've had years of solo content, easy content, and TF/SF that are meant for teams and yet have been soloed by many players. This game is entirely too easy. And for the most part it should be, it allows players to get familiar with the game and like it for what it is. Now that we have end game content for the more serious hard core players, the people who were so use to putting people on follow and auto casting an attack power are now upset because they can no longer do that with these trials.

When the BAf and Lambda was given to us, people complained and now look at it, they are being run on a daily basis and being torn apart by the common player. Give it time and the Keyes will be too. Last night we ran a total of 8-10 Keyes trials and of them we failed once. Not too bad for a new trial and a bunch of new players to that trial. But seriously, it's not hard to expect to have to bring support. I see many people complaining about having to make sure they have healers on the trials. You guys look at this as a bad thing, I look at it as "It's about time" We now have a reason to accept and want to bring healers to the leagues. The Keyes trial does exactly that. And I love that the devs gave us a reason to want to bring healers.

Our league eanred 2 of the badges last night and to be hoenst, it was a blast and we all had one hell of a good time doing it, yes it took coordination, but that was the fun part. Figuring out the strategy for the trial to earn those 2 badges. Now we still have 2 badges to go and probably the harder of the 4 badges. But I can honestly say I look forward to earning these badges. When I earn these badges I will truly feel I achieved the badges instead of them being given to me.



The final phase of this trial is not hard at all, it just takes people paying attention to what they are doing.

  • Disintegration - When you are being disintegrated heal, it's that simple. there are 3 ticks of damage, just make sure you are at full health on the 3rd and final tick and you will live.
  • Obliteration Beam - very easy, look for the very large green patch on the ground and get the hell away from it, don't stand there in aww "What's this green stuff" or "Oh, that's pretty" Run away from it and continue fighting.
  • Finally, debuffs you will notice some players have red bubbles on them and some have blue. This is very easy to get around. Blue stay near Blue and Red stay near Red. Mix them up and you will be seriously debuffed in all aspects.
Learn to deal with these 3 things and the trial is very easy. I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but it will be fun doing it. So my hat is off to the devs on this trial I love it!


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Posted

I've only really got two comments about this Trial and Trials generally which I iterated some time ago.

Firstly, I'll be glad when Positron gets raiding out of his system. He's said for a while now raiding is something he wanted to do in the game and he got his way. That being said, I feel raiding is somewhat antithetical to a game that used as a selling point no level cap increases, no gear, and everyone being on a level playing field. It's great that raiding players are getting to raid, but tying story content and the notion of advancing as an Incarnate strictly to the raid mechanic is a wrong move in my opinion and I'll continue to be vocal about saying so.

Secondly, with the move to a free to play hybrid model and therefore a reasonable expectation of an online store, gating cosmetics such as costume pieces and emotes behind a raiding system is wrong, plain and simple. To me it sends a contradictory message that the same items are being held in different aspects of the game for apparently no good reason.

Let me clarify that statement; if raiding is in the game and people enjoy doing it, that's great. But have the reward be proportional to the activity. Emotes, costume changes, auras and so on are cosmetics to the game, period. The Incarnate abilities are concrete, improvable and measurable benchmarks of time spent in that activity. I don't agree with those abilities being solely tied to raiding, but that's a seperate discussion.

What I am saying is that raid rewards should be raid-specific. Temporary powers with raid benefits; more suits like the Ascension Armor, which at least visually and in terms of points spent equals elite gear. I personally think that which is being gained in Trials will become available in the store anyways simply by a measure of demand. Interest can't be manufactured in the Trials and Trial playing is as much a limited demographic of players as PvP is. It's not a mainstream gaming activity, as much as crafting and badging are the same.

I've personally only unlocked the abilities on the BAF because I was bored and have done a total of two Lambda Trials because...it simply doesn't interest me. I should have more alternatives to gain, as I stated before, cosmetic rewards.

I will break my rule here and say a third thing; please please don't preach the Trials as 'learn to play' arguments or 'the game's been so easy, isn't it great that it's harder and challenging?' City of Heroes has never positioned itself in the mold of other MMO's in that regard. If the game was so easy beforehand, why did these people stay and play? If it wasn't for the qualities that distinguished itself from the other games and had things that they did not, they would not play. I won't begrudge people who like raiding their activity, but please don't sell it as the playstyle that everyone wants to do. A lot of us are here because we don't like the hardcore style and the level cap and the gear. Please bear that in mind.


S.


Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Have you considered turning your inspirations to greens and passing them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Sounds painful.
Actually it's quite easy to do with some simple macros.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post


There IS no strategy for 'Auto-hit giant pulses, insanely high accuracy mobs and a two-shot AV trolling your backside'

Nice try
Wow. I actually heard that in Tommy Lee Jones' voice.

Do that again, Techbot_Alpha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Winning the Trial = a winning strategy
DPS is a strategy now?
Yes. It is called, "When Brute forces doesn't solve your problem, you aren't using enough." *resists the urge to pull a GG and put a smiley here*

Note: I do not always subscribe to the aforementioned strategy. Occasionally, though, it can be enjoyable to just unleash all sorts of overkill on the offending victim. In the immortal words of Col. John 'Hannibal' Smith: Overkill is underrated.


There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp View Post
Deleting the rest to make a smaller post. I'll just add that I have noticed a lesser number of support characters doing the trials compared to what happens on team outside of the trials. Controllers and doms are even lesser played on BAFs for one obvious reason(escapee phase). I've only felt the desire to really use my Kat/sr scrapper for the trials. All of my other 50s outside of my Claws/regen are support.
thats what I was getting at. I see tons of Veats, many tanks, brutes, and scrappers...but the squishy toons because of HP and defense options are just not as well suited.

Also...with all the powers you unlock close or mimicing the powers of others the truth is it is smarter to incarnate a melee based HP driven toon.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Toon View Post
Yes. It is called, "When Brute forces doesn't solve your problem, you aren't using enough." *resists the urge to pull a GG and put a smiley here*
"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of problems it is unable to solve approaches zero."
Especially when those problems are pesky Primal invaders.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake View Post
When I earn these badges I will truly feel I achieved the badges instead of them being given to me.
Given that I can't seem to find/make a steady team and have no choice but to do these trials in a PUG situation, I'm figuring that I will never get 2 (possibly 3) of the Keyes badges, which means I'll never get the Master of Keyes either.

I know of no PUG willing to deal with the amount of deaths getting AM under 90% health for most of the trial will cause.

It will be next to impossible have a PUG avoid the beam, and I don't think the chances of the zero defeats/no terminals will happen.

Heck, I'm having a hard time finding a group willing to do the revised Lambda badges at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake View Post
Disintegration - When you are being disintegrated heal, it's that simple. there are 3 ticks of damage, just make sure you are at full health on the 3rd and final tick and you will live.
If the healers can see the person getting disintegrated. As a healer, I simply cannot see the disintegration aura. I've repeatedly asked that the player be highlighted in the league/team window so that they can be targeted by healers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake View Post
Obliteration Beam - very easy, look for the very large green patch on the ground and get the hell away from it, don't stand there in aww "What's this green stuff" or "Oh, that's pretty" Run away from it and continue fighting.
Again, if you can see it. With the graphics settings I have to use to participate in the trials, the beam is next to impossible to see to avoid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake View Post
Finally, debuffs you will notice some players have red bubbles on them and some have blue. This is very easy to get around. Blue stay near Blue and Red stay near Red. Mix them up and you will be seriously debuffed in all aspects.
Again, the entanglement auras are practically invisible. At one point in pre-beta they were far more visible. They were as visible as the shields in the Terra Volta Reactor, now they are less than 1/4 of the visibility they were at.




Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of problems it is unable to solve approaches zero."
I'm tempted to use this as a signature and get rid of my tribute to Moderator 8. I like it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
they have to walk the cat or rake the laundry or shovel the fridge or something.
I gotta figure out some way to work that comment into an AE arc.