Would you pay for an Incarnate booster pack? I would
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-05-31 16:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Skimmed the thread, sorry if I'm being repetitive.
Summary: I would gladly pay for a pack that contained all of that stuff.
This should be simple: The only things that should have to be purchased with Merits are things related to the Incarnate System, or rare IOs or IO sets (since those are rewards in nearly every other aspect of the game that requires a significant amount of time investment). Ascension Armor pieces, incarnate power icon chest emblems, Thread/Shard vouchers, Alpha Unlock: These are all things related to the Incarnate system, and therefore make sense to include here. Hell, even the Cape/Aura vouchers make some sense because they are something new players should earn (I guess), but older players should have easier/earlier access to.
I do not see how changing my costume via an ice block, "Swoon"ing, or wearing a bar code on my chest has anything whatsoever to do with being an incarnate.
I think Techbot Alpha has summed it up very well. Costume pieces, costume change emotes, auras, etc. appeal to large demographic of people who have little desire to repeat the iTrials; who play this game to watch their imaginary characters come to life. Therefore, locking the aforementioned features behind the iTrial rewards will force your players to play something they do not enjoy (which never ends well), and/or foster resentment toward the Dev team for making very appealing features difficult for said demographic to obtain.
Finally... I'm with the OP. I prefer to use what little time I can devote to this game to let my imagination run wild: creating character concepts, and watching those concepts come to life with the cosmetic features available. May I please have a way to obtain those features that does not include devoting my small amount of time to doing the same content over and over?
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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I'm kind of in-between on it, honestly.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
And it is this paramount difference between us that defines why we see this differently.
My reason to play is to have fun bopping and zapping and whatever-ing (no, not that!) enemies left and right and having fun playing make believe within a virtual super hero world. The only thing I need to earn is smiles. |
I like getting cool stuff, but not to the point that I will do something I don't enjoy in order to get it.
As far as the costume unlocks with Astral/Empyrean Merits goes? I will probably get my characters as kitted out as I want them to be, and maybe then I will consider unlocking some pieces with leftover merits.
The people with multiple 50s will have a huge advantage over those with only one or two. If you have multiple 50s, you can earn 2 Empyrean Merits and quite a few Astral merits each day with all of them. If you do that with 10 characters you can unlock the whole thing in a couple weeks tops. Since it is a global unlock and not per character, you don't need to save up however many merits on just one character, you can earn enough for one piece on each character and buy them that way.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I would grudgingly pay extra for access to the auras, emotes, and whatnot that is not Incarnate/Ascension-specific. The Ascension armor itself can stay gated.
On Liberty:
Aardwolf - level 50 claws/invulnerability scrapper
Anchor - level 50 level gravity/forcefield controller
Dr. Dusk - level 50 mercenaries/dark miasma mastermind
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So, if I understand, you would be willing to pay for individual tokens for things like "unlock auras early" or "unlock the rularuu sword" or even "unlock the samurai veteran reward costume early" if they were offered and they were necessary for a character concept?
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Originally Posted by Anchor
I would grudgingly pay extra for access to the auras, emotes, and whatnot that is not Incarnate/Ascension-specific. The Ascension armor itself can stay gated.
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That's not entirely true at these prices - you do get Astrals for running the trials, and you can unlock some pieces with Emps and some with Astrals.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
To be exact, you'd have to do all three ITrials every day for 134 days solid to get the full Empyrean armour set.
Have fun!! You -do- -love- the Raids -don't- you, citizen? |
Also... it's in Beta - it's subject to change. And based on this reaction it will change so please leave *constructive* feedback in the beta boards. Useful information would be: how many trials *you* run in a week, how many trials *you* would be willing to run in a week, and how many merits *you* think the pieces should cost.
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Also, I'd like to point out that if they err on the side of starting too high, they will figure it out via datamining and adjust prices down. It's not like they'll just sit by while 0.05% of the game's population gets the stuff and everyone else gives up. If they screw up and start too low, however, they can't exactly jack up the prices later. For one thing, everyone already has the loot, and they have it account-wide. For another, yeah, that would go over well with new players.
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Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
Also... it's in Beta - it's subject to change. And based on this reaction it will change so please leave *constructive* feedback in the beta boards.
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We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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I believe the problem that many people have with the reward items is not cost. Rather, that the majority of available rewards (emotes, costume change emotes, auras, etc.) have little to nothing to do with being an Incarnate. Thus it does not matter if the Bar Code chest detail costs 1 Empyrean Merit or 100, I would still have to do Incarnate content if I wanted a character with a bar code on his chest. While that makes sense for the Ascension Armor, as it is prestigious and divine-looking (leaving aside that the art team designed it specifically with Incarnates in mind), it does not make sense for many of the other rewards.
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Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
Also... it's in Beta - it's subject to change. And based on this reaction it will change so please leave *constructive* feedback in the beta boards. Useful information would be: how many trials *you* run in a week, how many trials *you* would be willing to run in a week, and how many merits *you* think the pieces should cost.
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@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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If someone wanted to pay for existing costume bits that might be locked for their use, I have no problem with a microtransaction system for it. Not sure the NCsoft store could handle it, but at this point in the game, I don't see any incentive to standing in the way of access to costume pieces that might otherwise be locked up behind a badge or some other requirement. I'd hope the more solid the toon the player can make, the more attachment the player might have to that toon and the longer the player might stick around and help pay for the rest of the game. If someone wants to wait until they unlock the pieces the old-fashioned way, they have the option to do that, too.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
So, if I understand, you would be willing to pay for individual tokens for things like "unlock auras early" or "unlock the rularuu sword" or even "unlock the samurai veteran reward costume early" if they were offered and they were necessary for a character concept?
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I don't think anyone should have to pay for access to default capes or auras, though. They have been level-locked for silly lore reasons for long enough. If EAT level requirements can drop, so can requirements for capes and auras.
On Liberty:
Aardwolf - level 50 claws/invulnerability scrapper
Anchor - level 50 level gravity/forcefield controller
Dr. Dusk - level 50 mercenaries/dark miasma mastermind
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This sums up... Pretty much 99% of why I'm still with City of Heroes, and that is no exaggeration. You have no idea how many times the game has pissed me off, how many times I've gotten bored and burned out, how many times I've found games that are, frankly, much better. But there are just some things that keep making me come back. Let me, in fact, give you a specific example:|
Originally Posted by Anchor
If someone wanted to pay for existing costume bits that might be locked for their use, I have no problem with a microtransaction system for it. Not sure the NCsoft store could handle it, but at this point in the game, I don't see any incentive to standing in the way of access to costume pieces that might otherwise be locked up behind a badge or some other requirement. I'd hope the more solid the toon the player can make, the more attachment the player might have to that toon and the longer the player might stick around and help pay for the rest of the game. If someone wants to wait until they unlock the pieces the old-fashioned way, they have the option to do that, too.
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Years ago, I wrote The Tale of Two Hearts, a story which I still consider to be one of the best things I've ever written. It tells the story of the elegantly alien queen Grimwall and the comically corny Captain Indivisible as much younger people, embroiled in a story that's one part bizarre and alien to two parts emotional and contemplative. Bot of these characters I initially made as Blasters, and I got Grimwall to level 50, despite having a really, really big problem with Blasters. I have since rerolled her as a Scrapper and gotten her back up to level 37, and I intend to get her back up to 50 where she belongs.
I love these two characters. Every time I come back to them, I want to relive their story. Every time I log them into City of Heroes, it feels like I'm seeing my story enacted for me. I get to see characters of my own design, characters that at least a few people have complimented me, characters I care about, and I get to see them in action like my old action figures could never accomplish. I care about these characters, and that is what keeps me coming back time and time again, even when I really don't feel like playing the actual game. These guys are the reason I play.
And not because they're high-level or because I'm invested or because they have phat lute. Not at all. They could all reset to empty level 1s and I'd still play them up to full, because it is THE CHARACTERS that I like. At this point I've probably spent as many hours writing fictions, taking and editing screenshots, discussing character concepts, reading stories and browsing artwork as I have gaining experience or lute or what have you.
The better the character I can make from the start, the more likely I will be to keep coming back to that character and playing it through the levels, still more and still more. And the better the editor is, the more likely I'll be to keep coming back to it and trying my hand at making new characters.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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While I agree with much of what you say, this is not one of those things. Reducing the cost of something after it goes live really sucks for those who initially purchase it. It is far better to listen to the player base and reduce the prices to reasonable levels now.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
Also, I'd like to point out that if they err on the side of starting too high, they will figure it out via datamining and adjust prices down. It's not like they'll just sit by while 0.05% of the game's population gets the stuff and everyone else gives up. If they screw up and start too low, however, they can't exactly jack up the prices later. For one thing, everyone already has the loot, and they have it account-wide. For another, yeah, that would go over well with new players.
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Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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You can unlock Rularuu weapons doing a villain arc.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The whole game is gated behind real money. At least then I don't have to ruin my gaming experience working to unlock cosmetic items. People always tell me that the only way to make my opinion heard is to vote with my wallet. Well, I'm willing to vote with my wallet.
Sell me a pack that contains Incarnate costumes, Rularuu costumes or Roman costumes (including Romulus ones) and I will buy it. |
Roman armor is unlocked doing a single succesfull TF...
Ascension armor, new auras and stuff will be a long and hard painful way to unlock.
I think it should automatically unlock account wide for those that craft any very rare hability.
It makes sense with the Ascension thing.
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This.|
Originally Posted by Winterminal
I believe the problem that many people have with the reward items is not cost. Rather, that the majority of available rewards have little to nothing to do with being an Incarnate.
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I know I said it before. I'm saying it again because I want to stress what the "You just don't want stuff content-locked" people aren't countering - because, I feel, they can't.
It isn't Incarnate stuff* that's currently "locked" behind the Incarnate system. It's just regular "stuff", like you'd get in a booster.
Unless you're suggesting that only Incarnates can Catch Breath / Collapse, and Swoon, or have a swords-crossed emblem.
Make it all Incarnate-Type-Stuff, and my objection goes away. I mean, you won't have brought me all the way around to "I like it", but you'll have brought me to "Sure, whatever, that's an Incarnate thing".
* - Awesome McIncarnate Armor excluded, and some of the the chest emblem things.
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This is pretty much where I am, except that I heavily disagree with the level of gated-ness |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I'm kind of in-between on it, honestly.
I like getting cool stuff, but not to the point that I will do something I don't enjoy in order to get it. As far as the costume unlocks with Astral/Empyrean Merits goes? I will probably get my characters as kitted out as I want them to be, and maybe then I will consider unlocking some pieces with leftover merits. |
Example, the VG kit before the pack. One character I wanted to make and have indeed made is a Vanguard Colonel with full armour. Getting him to 35 AND unlocking every single bit of armour? Well, I could live with that, because I had cool people to team with, friends to mess around with and do varied stuff on the way to 35 and subsequent merit earning.
I do not find the ITrials fun. I especially do not find them fun when I have to rind them and ONLY them to get what I would like to get.
Alpha slot? I could live with that. I could do ANY content and get rewarded. I could mission, I could solo, I could do TFs. I could do the WST.
Now? No. No choice at all. And that is what I disaprove of the most.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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One thing along those lines would be to unlock the incarnate logo when you unlock the matching slot -- get the Incarnate Alpha Chest Symbol unlocked when you unlock your alpha slot, etc.
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Originally Posted by TheJazMan
The new costume pieces etc look decent (from what I could see in the pics). I also agree with having special to unlock when you are an incarnate. It may have been better served if you got something as you unlocked your alpha slot of along those lines.
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"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
For me: yes, I'd pay for an Incarnate booster.
As someone that's soloed most of my CoH gamelife, I do not like the fact that I'm relegated to only doing content that forces me to play with people I'd rather not, only to earn an aesthetic item.
I don't agree with Posi's post about having gated materials based on grouping. While he may think that it will get people to play more of the Incarnate trials, it's made the opposite effect on me. In fact, I've played much less CoH in the past 6 months because it's not allowing me to play the way I choose... like most of the game was based around.
While adding new content is key, stuff like the Incarnate Trials (and only earning the "awesome" rewards from it) is segregating players even more. It's no different than forcing "badgers" to PvP for badges.
The game has been slowly steering away from the mini-games that allowed people to play when/if they felt like it. More and more issues come that take the option of if/when away and say "this is what you have to do just because we'd rather you to play more of this than more of that."
Sure you can say, "Well, don't play the content if you don't want to." But when that's all that we're presented with, it doesn't give us very many options beyond forced content.
I'll always stay subbed to CoH but little by little, the luster seems to fade in terms of logging in and just being able to enjoy what's available.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
I keep seeing people in this thread saying that they dont play for "phat loot" yet they will not stand any system that does not hand them their "phat loot"... >_<
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I'm of the opinion that cosmetic options should have a dual-path to acquisition most of the time: you can buy them, or you can earn them. I have stronger generally balance-related concerns with powers and abilities. Pay-to-accessorize I have no problem with. Pay-to-win I think is generally radioactive.
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Originally Posted by Anchor
If someone wanted to pay for existing costume bits that might be locked for their use, I have no problem with a microtransaction system for it. Not sure the NCsoft store could handle it, but at this point in the game, I don't see any incentive to standing in the way of access to costume pieces that might otherwise be locked up behind a badge or some other requirement. I'd hope the more solid the toon the player can make, the more attachment the player might have to that toon and the longer the player might stick around and help pay for the rest of the game. If someone wants to wait until they unlock the pieces the old-fashioned way, they have the option to do that, too.
I don't think anyone should have to pay for access to default capes or auras, though. They have been level-locked for silly lore reasons for long enough. If EAT level requirements can drop, so can requirements for capes and auras. |
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Just a little hypocritical, innit?
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Originally Posted by Mjolnir875
I keep seeing people in this thread saying that they dont play for "phat loot" yet they will not stand any system that does not hand them their "phat loot"... >_<
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I'm in agreement with this statement!|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm of the opinion that cosmetic options should have a dual-path to acquisition most of the time: you can buy them, or you can earn them. I have stronger generally balance-related concerns with powers and abilities. Pay-to-accessorize I have no problem with. Pay-to-win I think is generally radioactive.
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Originally Posted by Mjolnir875
I keep seeing people in this thread saying that they dont play for "phat loot" yet they will not stand any system that does not hand them their "phat loot"... >_<
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I'd much rather buy an Incarnate pack with all the stuff apart from the Ascension armour as a global unlock, which also means I don't have to go through the hastle of claiming it on EVERY-SINGLE-CHARACTER through Email.
You can keep the Ascension armour as an unlockable only but everything else...yeah looks like it kind of belongs in a booster pack anyway...infact I swear everything BUT the Ascension armour was originally going to be in a booster pack anyway until they panicked and threw them in the Incarnate unlockables instead.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
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Arcana sums it up nicely, as per usual. I have no problem with cosmetic items being given both an in-game (no $$$) unlock put behind some sort of gate and an out-of-game paid unlock via Booster Pack, with players left to pick their poison, so to speak. I have no problem, furthermore, with this notion being retrofitted into all Booster Packs and in-game unlocks. What this means is I'd like to see things like Rularuu, Vanguard and Roman pieces sold as Booster Packs IN ADDITION TO the ways that currently exist to unlock them. I'd also like to see things like the Wedding Pack, The Martial Arts pack, the Valkyrie pack and so forth be unlockable via in-game action, or after a long period of time. What that action/period should be, I don't want to try and figure out, but it should be something that gives most people a strong incentive yo buy them anyway.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm of the opinion that cosmetic options should have a dual-path to acquisition most of the time: you can buy them, or you can earn them. I have stronger generally balance-related concerns with powers and abilities. Pay-to-accessorize I have no problem with. Pay-to-win I think is generally radioactive.
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I also agree with Arcana in that selling powers is a bad idea. In fact, I'd go as far as to call it all-caps-exclamation BAD! As a point of fact, I hate that they're including a power with every Booster Pack. It's starting to segregate people into haves and have nots in a real bad way, in that people with all the Boosters (like me) have not just a MASSIVE utility advantage, but can afford to have more optimised builds because we get to skip some limitations and get some decent powers for free.
In a nutshell: Give all unlockable costume sets two options to unlock - in-game action for free or PlayNC store action for real money. Never extend this to items which are non-cosmetic, like powers, stats or practical priviliges.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Because costumes, emotes, emblems and auras are not (and should not be considered) loot?
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Originally Posted by Mjolnir875
I keep seeing people in this thread saying that they dont play for "phat loot" yet they will not stand any system that does not hand them their "phat loot"... >_<
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Always remember, we were Heroes.
Yes of course I'd pay it. I would hope most rational people would. I don't know how to say it except that trying to obtain these rewards through gameplay would push past the limit of what I consider a healthy relationship with a video game.
Two minor points to add:
1) IMO the debate about whether it takes 20 or 154 or however many days to buy rewards misses the point. Those are the costs assuming you buy nothing else.
2) The idea that people either want costumes or want tangibles/advancement is strange in a video game that maintains a significant revenue line via direct sales of costume parts packaged together with useful-ish powers. Why package these things together if most players would rather purchase either the costumes or the powers?
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/This.|
Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
Because costumes, emotes, emblems and auras are not (and should not be considered) loot?
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Lewt is something that improves your performance. Now you could classify Aura's and the like as rewards. But not loot.
(Semantics for breakfast tastes like oatmeal.)
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Keep Calm & Chive On!
I know I would. I'd rather spend $10 real bucks in the 2 minutes it takes for the transaction than spend half a year trying to obtain enough Emps to get these pieces.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
I want to play the game, not gather things. And by "play the game," I mean pick whatever character seems coolest and bash some heads in, when I want to, how I want to, where I want to. If that's not enough to keep me interested, then the fool's gold hope that I'll somehow have more fun later when I have the shinies sure won't. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.