DC Relaunching Everything in the Fall?
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2011-05-17 19:08 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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How can they say that Killing Joke still happened, yet Babs is still, or returned to being, Batgirl? Removing the whole getting paralyzed thing kinda defeats the purpose of keeping KJ. Especially since she's really grown into the role of Oracle. Even if she managed to walk again (something that I think should've happened a long time ago), she'd still keep the mantle of Oracle and let the other women have a shot at being Batgirl.|
Originally Posted by Warp_Factor
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Edit - Sounds like they know this is going to be a mistake, yet are still doing it. They want to placate the old-timers by telling them all that important stuff still happened, yet tell the newbies that there's nothing important in the past and they can skip it. The true results of compromise...no one leaves happy.
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I read on the Dc comics board that basically warner Brothers told them increase sales and add intrest now or we will clean house and do it .
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Originally Posted by Dark One
That's messed up, yo (if true). Did DC get bought out by Marvel or something? Are they really that bound and determined to kill off, well, everything?
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From someone that actually works at DC/Warner or just some doofus with an internet connection?
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Originally Posted by Optimus_Dex
I read on the Dc comics board that basically warner Brothers told them increase sales and add intrest now or we will clean house and do it .
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Craft your inventions in AE!!
Play "Crafter's Cafe" - Arc #487283. A 1 mission, NON-COMBAT AE arc with workable invention tables!
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What do you mean? She gets her spine fixed and decides to go back to being Batgirl, that's how. It's really pretty simple. Killing Joke doesn't need to be retconned out for her to be Batgirl again any more than Knightfall needed to be retconned out for Bruce to be Batman again. She got paralyzed. She got better. She went back to her old role that, if you've been reading BoP, she clearly misses. Simple as that.
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Originally Posted by Dark One
How can they say that Killing Joke still happened, yet Babs is still, or returned to being, Batgirl? Removing the whole getting paralyzed thing kinda defeats the purpose of keeping KJ. Especially since she's really grown into the role of Oracle. Even if she managed to walk again (something that I think should've happened a long time ago), she'd still keep the mantle of Oracle and let the other women have a shot at being Batgirl.
Edit - Sounds like they know this is going to be a mistake, yet are still doing it. They want to placate the old-timers by telling them all that important stuff still happened, yet tell the newbies that there's nothing important in the past and they can skip it. The true results of compromise...no one leaves happy. |
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And I guess that makes all of it all right.
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Originally Posted by Warp_Factor
Character growth character schmowth.
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Good lord, this makes no editorial sense at all, e.g. |
Originally Posted by Warp_Factor
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DC Editor-in-Chief Bob Harras: So we really did take everything very seriously and looked at big events like Blackest Night and Brightest Day, and wanted to make sure those stayed a part of our stories. Executive Editor Eddie Berganza: Right. The ones that really impacted people, like Death in the Family and Killing Joke. The ones that even people outside regular comic readers know. People know something happened to Barbara Gordon, that the Joker shot her. That counts. Harras: So we looked at all these characters and really said what we're going to weave in and what we're going keep and what we're going to move forward on. Newsarama: So to clarify, the storylines you've mention, like the Killing Joke and Death in the Family, are definitely part of history going forward? Harras: Yes, and in fact, they're even important starting points for some of the storylines we have. Newsarama: But that doesn't mean other stories didn't happen, right? Harras: Correct. Newsarama: Did Identity Crisis happen? Berganza: Yes, it did. |
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Batgirl is Babs' past. She can no more go back to being that than Dick can go back to being Robin. Plus, in doing so, that says that she thinks very little of Steph as Batgirl.|
Originally Posted by Warp_Factor
What do you mean? She gets her spine fixed and decides to go back to being Batgirl, that's how. It's really pretty simple. Killing Joke doesn't need to be retconned out for her to be Batgirl again any more than Knightfall needed to be retconned out for Bruce to be Batman again. She got paralyzed. She got better. She went back to her old role that, if you've been reading BoP, she clearly misses. Simple as that.
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That's not to say she couldn't put on a cape again, but not as Batgirl. Take a new persona like Dick went to Nightwing. Babs has graduated from "girl" anyways.
Eesh... sounds like a they're using a terrible mish/mash approach to this.
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Exactly!|
Originally Posted by Dark One
...They want to placate the old-timers by telling them all that important stuff still happened, yet tell the newbies that there's nothing important in the past and they can skip it. The true results of compromise...no one leaves happy.
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I feel for all the DC fans out there!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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This.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
Batgirl is Babs' past. She can no more go back to being that than Dick can go back to being Robin. Plus, in doing so, that says that she thinks very little of Steph as Batgirl.
That's not to say she couldn't put on a cape again, but not as Batgirl. Take a new persona like Dick went to Nightwing. Babs has graduated from "girl" anyways. |
Babs is so much more as Oracle than she'll ever be as Batgirl. Swinging cape wearing punchers are a dime a dozen in comics. But good masterminds like Oracle? Not many.
Most importantly, how many characters can you name that have suffered a horrific injury as she did, and IT STAYED? Even death seems temporary in comics, but Babs' injury actually affected her character for a long time, until this poorly considered reboot.
If all the important events still happened then why is there a need for a "reboot" to change the costumes? the teams? What?
It seems like they want to shuffle characters around and change their designs and just not give a reason behind it... lame.
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Sounds petty much like Geoff Johns and Dan DiDio's m.o. I know DiDio has been pushing for something along these lines since Infinite Crisis.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
If all the important events still happened then why is there a need for a "reboot" to change the costumes? the teams? What?
It seems like they want to shuffle characters around and change their designs and just not give a reason behind it... lame. |
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Five years....|
Originally Posted by Warp_Factor
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This is really going to cheese off Durakken and others who chase the fool's goal of coming up with a "definitive" timeline of events. That 12-15 or so years, depending on whose adventures you're basing that timeline on, is now compressed into 5 for everyone.
I'll admit, I even have problems with it, like exactly how the heck can you explain 4 Robins in that amount of time? And then there are the other first wave sidekicks. That's going to be a mess.
For the Robins, I suppose Batman may have only debuted a month or so after Superman now, and possibly Dick's parents were killed only a few months later. Then make Dick about 16 when it happened and you can still have him being adult now, though reduced in age to maybe 21. Jason takes over maybe 2 years ago, and dies within 6 months. Tim takes over very shortly after Jason dies. All of them being older than they were before when they started.
And then there's Damian. Assuming that he's at least 12 now, he was actually conceived well before Bruce became Batman. It can work, if you have Bruce spending time training with Ra's, and having an affair with Talia during that time. Son of the Demon loses a lot of impact that way, but there you go.
Funny thought about that last one: If they're sticking to the basics of Bruce's journey defined in Year One, he's probably only 18-19 when he impregnates Talia.
The rest of the original Teen Titans are all going to be affected similarly. Older when they debut, considerably younger in the current time.
I imagine a lot of the forgettable stories that had mentions of real amounts of time passing will just be glossed over. Goodbye, One Year Later, among a host of others. I suppose Azrael only took over as Batman for like a month, and Clark was only dead for maybe a few weeks. Maybe Parallax didn't happen the same, and maybe Hal didn't die reigniting the Sun. At least that way we don't have cosmic bugs that embody fear somehow being too hard for God's Vengeance to remove from their hosts.
Edit: Oh, ha! Connor Hawke! That one's gonna be rich! I imagine the only way to do it is to have Ollie having an illegitimate child as a young man, then becoming Green Arrow fairly late in life, compared to the other heroes, say already in his early-30s. This is going to be fun just for the justifications.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
An interesting poll over at CBR.
Ms. Mesmer, You read that wrong...
They didn't say that all of the DCU is going to be compacted into 5 years. They said that Action Comics and JLA will be set 5 years before contemporary, and whether that us when superman arrives on the scene or not is a dif question...
If it is the case that all the history is taking place in 5 years there will be massive backlash worst than just rebooting because they are just showing how dumb they are as writers... if not then we'll see
also if they try to say this is just like CoIE...CoIE's end result universe already existed and was the main cannon.. where as this isn't
They also say this isn't "Earth-#" implying flash is going to fail, the 52 universes are destroyed and we enter into the mega multiverse or a single universe again... but with that info it makes flashpoint a crappy read because we know he is going to fail...
This is what comes of worrying about the passage of time in comics. They're fantasy worlds already, just hand-wave the ages and be done with it.
Batman is older than Nightwing who's older than Tim who's older than Damien. That's really all ya need to know.
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It was posted Geoff Johns said it.
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Originally Posted by BackFire
From someone that actually works at DC/Warner or just some doofus with an internet connection?
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No, it really is five years.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Ms. Mesmer, You read that wrong...
They didn't say that all of the DCU is going to be compacted into 5 years. They said that Action Comics and JLA will be set 5 years before contemporary, and whether that us when superman arrives on the scene or not is a dif question... |
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| - Both Action Comics and Justice League are set at the "dawning of the age of superheroes," DC said. (But that dawn doesn't appear to be too long ago, since it's being reported that they will take place only five years in the past.) |
I suppose that you could say that the Justice League forms late or something, but the "dawning of the age of superheroes" line implies that it's pretty early. Virtually every version of the Justice League origin to date has been very early in Superman and Batman's careers.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
Umm... Ms. M, looks like you misread that article.
From the LA Times article:
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And from the way the article read, to me, is that the main story in Action Comics and in JLA are gonna be a flashback type stories, so I imagine we'll have a Time Skip in those titles as well.| Our first arc actually is the origin of the team, so it takes place in the past, and the next arc will take place in the present, he said. One thing I was really interested in was how do these guys really get along? Like Green Lantern when he first meets Batman, hes like, So what are your powers? Because youd assume if this guy is dressed up like a bat fighting bad guys, that he cant be crazy, that hes got to have powers. And so Jim and I talked a lot about what their first opinion would be of each other. Like if Green Lanterns on Earth to patrol to search for extraterrestrial trouble, whats he think of Superman? - Geoff Johns |
All I'll say to that, is the editorial heads better have everything planned just right, or otherwise it's gonna be an absolute mess.
Thank you for the time...
@Travlr (Main) / @Tymers Realm (Test) 
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Bad Tymers! No linking to TVTropes without a warning that readers will experience a Time Skip of their own!
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Originally Posted by Tymers_Realm
And from the way the article read, to me, is that the main story in Action Comics and in JLA are gonna be a flashback type stories, so I imagine we'll have a Time Skip in those titles as well.
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You're not super until you put on The Cape!
Attercap.Net
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Those arcs are said to be at the dawning of the age of the superheroes, and five years ago. Nothing you quoted, and nothing in them reads any different.|
Originally Posted by Tymers_Realm
Umm... Ms. M, looks like you misread that article.
From the LA Times article: And from the way the article read, to me, is that the main story in Action Comics and in JLA are gonna be a flashback type stories, so I imagine we'll have a Time Skip in those titles as well. All I'll say to that, is the editorial heads better have everything planned just right, or otherwise it's gonna be an absolute mess. Thank you for the time... |
This:
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| Johns and Lee said the story will be set five years in the past, as will the new Superman tale, which will launch with “Action Comics” issue No. 1 in September. “Action Comics” writer Grant Morrison sent a special video message to Saturday night’s audience at the Hero Complex Film Festival at the Chinese Six theater in Hollywood. |
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| “It’s not just renumbering all of these books, but it’s also about going systematically through the entire DC universe and sort of reenergizing and reimagining a lot of the stuff that sort of formed these characters, the back stories,” Lee said. “We’re talking about ‘Justice League,’ but there’s never been a really awesome origin for the Justice League. … To me, it’s a prime example of something that we can go in and maybe add something to the lore and add a really kickass contemporary story that feels modern and really shows why these characters need to be together, because this is a such a diverse group of heroes.” |
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
Why not be more obvious about the fact that this is all temporary?
Have Poison Ivy engineer a new microscopic version of the Black Mercy that infects the entire world and gives us a year or so of essentially Esleworld stories.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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Usually I do, usually I do...|
Originally Posted by Attercap
Bad Tymers! No linking to TVTropes without a warning that readers will experience a Time Skip of their own!
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Sorry.
Thank you for the time...
@Travlr (Main) / @Tymers Realm (Test)
Ms. Mesmer, the "dawning of the age of superheroes thing seems to be a quote from a different interview of some sort and plugged into the article by the writer, not a quote from anyone they interviewed right then and there.
The 5 year compression literally can't happen from a "main event" stand point... 1year later, Batman year one, 52, and No Man's Land each take 1 year of comic time
So it would go...
Y0 = Superman Arrives on scene
Y1 = Batman Year One
Y2 = Dick Grayson becomes Robin, is fired. Becomes Nightwing. Jason Todd become Robin. dies. Tim Drake becomes Robin.
Y3 = No Man's Land
Y4 = 52
Y5 = OYL
Y6 = Current Year
it just doesn't work. It would compress all history in the DCU into Year 2, with the comics from 1987-2006 happening between Y3 and 4 and everything after OYL happening in Y6
Assuming that Batman is 23 when he starts that makes him 29 currently. It makes Dick Jason and Tim all 18. Makes Barbara 20 and Damian as long as he isn't a fast grown clone type being conceived when Bruce was 15... or younger, considering training.
I don't see them "keeping the main events" and making it a 5 year history, especially with Zero Hour and CoIE stating a 10/15 year timeline
The JLA forming as far as I know has always been placed y3.
I'm betting that at the end of Flashpoint they are going to post timeline of how the universes all collapses into creating the "new" DCU
As long as the stories are good they can dump the last 70 years of continuity for all I care.
A lot of those titles premises aren't giving me confidence in my one stipulation, though.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
More reboot info; apparently most of the DCU history is being kept intact.