DC Relaunching Everything in the Fall?
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2011-05-17 19:08 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
I can't follow Marvel's numbering system any more, either, so I've stopped trying. Is it number 15 or number 500 of Spider-Man? Who knows?
Renumbering Action Comics is beyond stupid. In 2019 they hit issue 1,000. Look forward, you idjits.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
I just can't get over the concept of Superman fighting an epic battle against a powerful foe while at the same time taking a leisurely walk around the world in order to connect with the common man. I know the two books are meant to take place at different times but seeing both those synopses in the same release list is just weird to me.
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We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
This is why I tend not to pay attention to things as they happen and wait til the dust settles to see if it's worth picking up in trades. 
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
I'd wish BOTH houses would just STOP resetting their entire universes and books for at least FIVE years. Let some history build up like the used to in the old days, so that things actually have consequences.
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that's so frickin stupid...especially if it's a reboot.
Zounds. That's a wee bit bigger post one-book-released-at-the-end-of-August shift in DC than the rumor of just Abin Sur making it out of Flashpoint alive.
Keep in mind folks, this is all purely rumor until DC officially solicits it.
That aside, it would be a crime if Action Comics and Detective Comics both got reset to #1. Though I am curious as to how they'd do this, IF they do it
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
Actually what they need to do is a total relaunch of the Universe in general. They should have done this after Crisis on Infinite Earth's, like Marv Wolfman wanted them to do, but editorial at the time said no.
Look at it this way, DC is suffering from a lack of a unified vision of the DCU, which has been corrected when Johns, Dido and Lee were promoted to their current positions.
The current DCU in my opinion is not salvagable as it currently is. I can name at least 4 characters whose histories are so convoluted that if they could make them more reader friendly by saying this is how everything is , they might become more popular.
Power Girl
Hawkman
Donna Troy
Dick Grayson (Specifically, him being the original Robin Doesn't add up anymore)
The old Guard Justice Society members.
-Another thing that some people have problems with is Superman's marriage to Lois Lane.
I'd hope that DC learned from the mistakes of One Year Later which hurt more titles than it helped in the long run and alienated a lot of readers. While a total reboot may not appeal to some of you, it may actually be the smartest thing DC ever did.
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You forgot Hawkman, and Aquaman is getting there as well
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Originally Posted by Dr_Illuminatis
Actually what they need to do is a total relaunch of the Universe in general. They should have done this after Crisis on Infinite Earth's, like Marv Wolfman wanted them to do, but editorial at the time said no.
Look at it this way, DC is suffering from a lack of a unified vision of the DCU, which has been corrected when Johns, Dido and Lee were promoted to their current positions. The current DCU in my opinion is not salvagable as it currently is. I can name at least 4 characters whose histories are so convoluted that if they could make them more reader friendly by saying this is how everything is , they might become more popular. Power Girl Hawkman Donna Troy Dick Grayson (Specifically, him being the original Robin Doesn't add up anymore) The old Guard Justice Society members. -Another thing that some people have problems with is Superman's marriage to Lois Lane. I'd hope that DC learned from the mistakes of One Year Later which hurt more titles than it helped in the long run and alienated a lot of readers. While a total reboot may not appeal to some of you, it may actually be the smartest thing DC ever did. |
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Er, Hawkman is listed second. >.>
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Originally Posted by Tocharon
You forgot Hawkman, and Aquaman is getting there as well
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- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Actually Dick Grayson hasnt been Robin in quite sometime....anyone remember his being Nightwing? Sure he is currently one of the Bat"men" while Bruce is off around the world building an army to fight whatever is coming...
With that said....there are a few characters that are and hav consistently been neglected by DC.....
Aquaman (yea hes been listed already)
Hawkman was listed too, however what about Hawkgirl/woman?
Phantom Stranger (he only appears at certain times which makes no realy sense to me)
Martian Manhunter.....come on this character is basically Batman and Superman wrapped in one....surely someone could do something with him....yes sure his weakness towards fire is cheesy....still....
Captain Marvel....talking Billy Batson here....
Blue Beetle...Ted Kord...sure he was killed, but then when does some getting killed off ever kept them from coming back from the dead?
As it stands right now I think DC is trying to connect with the events that happened in Kingdom Come...which to me is a little silly, because wasnt that and Elseworlds thing?
You only fail if you give up. - Dana Scully
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Yes and no...|
Originally Posted by Sevenpenny
As it stands right now I think DC is trying to connect with the events that happened in Kingdom Come...which to me is a little silly, because wasnt that and Elseworlds thing? |
It was when written
then it shifted to the probable future
then it has shifted to another Earth's future
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DC AND Marvel are both in dire need of hitting the big red REBOOT button, just don't have Mephisto involved in it this time |
Originally Posted by Dr_Illuminatis
Actually what they need to do is a total relaunch of the Universe in general. They should have done this after Crisis on Infinite Earth's, like Marv Wolfman wanted them to do, but editorial at the time said no.
Look at it this way, DC is suffering from a lack of a unified vision of the DCU, which has been corrected when Johns, Dido and Lee were promoted to their current positions. The current DCU in my opinion is not salvagable as it currently is. I can name at least 4 characters whose histories are so convoluted that if they could make them more reader friendly by saying this is how everything is , they might become more popular. Power Girl Hawkman Donna Troy Dick Grayson (Specifically, him being the original Robin Doesn't add up anymore) The old Guard Justice Society members. -Another thing that some people have problems with is Superman's marriage to Lois Lane. I'd hope that DC learned from the mistakes of One Year Later which hurt more titles than it helped in the long run and alienated a lot of readers. While a total reboot may not appeal to some of you, it may actually be the smartest thing DC ever did. |
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I can't see altering Superman's history at this late date helping with the lawsuits. Wouldn't the creator's estates still win back everything prior to the alteration? |
Originally Posted by BlackSun17
Also, I wonder if this is a way for DC to change Superman and his 'official' history enough to help them win the ongoing lawsuit over his character rights.
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DC quite frankly either needs to suck it up and sit down with the Superman estate and hammer out a mutually fair and profitable deal, or else start grooming Captain Marvel/Shazam as the replacement to Superman if they lose the lawsuits.
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Fixed that for ya.
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Originally Posted by Nericus
DC AND Marvel are both in dire need of hitting the big red REBOOT button, just don't have Josephisto involved in it this time
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All of these were featured heavily in Brightest Day.|
Originally Posted by Sevenpenny
With that said....there are a few characters that are and hav consistently been neglected by DC.....
Aquaman (yea hes been listed already) Hawkman was listed too, however what about Hawkgirl/woman? Martian Manhunter.....come on this character is basically Batman and Superman wrapped in one....surely someone could do something with him....yes sure his weakness towards fire is cheesy....still.... |
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| Blue Beetle...Ted Kord...sure he was killed, but then when does some getting killed off ever kept them from coming back from the dead? |
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Ahdunno, I think the whole Agents of S!H!A!Z!A!M! (or whatever their official name is) has potential. I don't quite see how Battle Cattawny fits into it yet, but the Shazamateers are the main reason I'm picking up Flashpoint.
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Originally Posted by Nericus
... or else start grooming Captain Marvel/Shazam as the replacement to Superman if they lose the lawsuits.
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Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
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Even if they lose the lawsuits, they are only losing a portion of his origin. Action Comics #1 was sold to DC, but all the following Superman issues were "work as hire", and DC owns them.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
I can't see altering Superman's history at this late date helping with the lawsuits. Wouldn't the creator's estates still win back everything prior to the alteration?
DC quite frankly either needs to suck it up and sit down with the Superman estate and hammer out a mutually fair and profitable deal, or else start grooming Captain Marvel/Shazam as the replacement to Superman if they lose the lawsuits. |
IIRC, they would lose Krypton (and Krypton blowing up, and baby Supes rocketing away), Kal-L, Jor-L and Lara and not a whole lot else. Hm, the costume. Well, the insignia has changed since the original (it used to have black where there is yellow now), but I don't know if that constitutes enough change or not.
I'm not trying to begrudge the Seigels their rightful property, but you can be sure that he and Schuster were thrilled to sell their story and the subsequent ones to DC. Having their great-grandkids squabbling over the scraps seems a little...I don't know, not in the spirit of Superman?
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.
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Didn't DC just reset everything back to issue 1 in 05 or 06? It wasn't that long ago that I was picking up a new GL +1 and WW#1...
I don't know, on the one hand, I get it. It's hard to get new people coming into it when they pick up book #600 or 750 and have no idea about all the history established over decades... It's hard to get into the story...
On the other hand, constantly rebooting is just as confusing for their long time fans, or casual comic readers (like myself) who go in and start scratching their head when it turns out in the 6 months since I last stepped into a comic book shop, everything changed massively 4 times and all the characters are different.
I think DC and Marvel need to keep their long running lines going and still find ways to get people into new stories, without having to go hunt down the best Batman TPBs or whatever. Not sure how to do it, I'm not a comic book genius by anymeans. But the occasional side story, or retelling of older stories more modernized, or some sort of clear... Original story path... - new updated Story path for newbs... Would be nice..
Maybe call it DC Original Universe.... DC Modern Universe... Or DC 1, DC 2, Instead of Earth 29587212 and Earth 3, and Ultimate 1920s Earth 7865....
You know, something simple and easy to understand...
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
I doubt it's a reboot because the Earth-1 books are supposed to be a 2010-ish reboot and i guess you would have to call them the post-modern age books as New Earth is 1987 and considered Modern Age.
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Green Lantern and Wonder Woman were relaunched around then. GL's stuck to that new numbering, but WW ran into massive delays. They eventually got the book closer to schedule, and WW was reconfigured to sync up to the classic numbers.|
Originally Posted by Ice_Wall
Didn't DC just reset everything back to issue 1 in 05 or 06? It wasn't that long ago that I was picking up a new GL +1 and WW#1...
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Originally Posted by Ice_Wall
I don't know, on the one hand, I get it. It's hard to get new people coming into it when they pick up book #600 or 750 and have no idea about all the history established over decades... It's hard to get into the story...
On the other hand, constantly rebooting is just as confusing for their long time fans, or casual comic readers (like myself) who go in and start scratching their head when it turns out in the 6 months since I last stepped into a comic book shop, everything changed massively 4 times and all the characters are different. I think DC and Marvel need to keep their long running lines going and still find ways to get people into new stories, without having to go hunt down the best Batman TPBs or whatever. Not sure how to do it, I'm not a comic book genius by anymeans. But the occasional side story, or retelling of older stories more modernized, or some sort of clear... Original story path... - new updated Story path for newbs... Would be nice.. Maybe call it DC Original Universe.... DC Modern Universe... Or DC 1, DC 2, Instead of Earth 29587212 and Earth 3, and Ultimate 1920s Earth 7865.... You know, something simple and easy to understand... |
I think part of the problem is that when a potential buyer sees that issue # 902 on Action Comics, or 525 for Uncanny X-Men, they get jittery that you'll need a PhD in the title's history to be able to follow any of the new stories. Lemme just say that very, very few titles or even writers are like that. There are exceptions of course, like some X-Men titles, Legion, and some of Grant Morrison's stuff. But Marvel and DC have been going out of their way the last 5 years to make a lot of the books as new reader friendly as possible.
Most comics these days usually only sporadically refer to events or characters from the last, say, 5 to 10 years or so. See, a lot of modern writers don't know every single thing that's happened in every title either. When they get an assignment for a storyline, they'll research some key plotlines, and leave it at that.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
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To be fair, when Morrison does that he generally re introduces the information to the viewer. He almost always goes "oooh look at this" "What the heck is that?" "it's from the past and is this" "ooooooh.... OH! That makes sense!" in all the stuff I have read of his.|
Originally Posted by Agonus
Most comics these days usually only sporadically refer to events or characters from the last, say, 5 to 10 years or so. See, a lot of modern writers don't know every single thing that's happened in every title either. When they get an assignment for a storyline, they'll research some key plotlines, and leave it at that.
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And not to mention you can read storyline info in several places so if you are curious about something you can almost always find more about it with a quick google search... and if you can't its probably so insignificant it doesn't matter and the writer is making stuff up now
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Here's the Question how old is Bruce? Dick is at the very least in his mid to late twenties. He's been Robin since he was about 8 or 9 years old. So how old was Bruce when he made Dick his ward? Remember Bruce went to and graduated college then traveled the world for a couple of years. He'd been Batman at least 3-5 years before Dick Became Robin. So here's a timetable with approximate ages:|
Originally Posted by Sevenpenny
Actually Dick Grayson hasnt been Robin in quite sometime....anyone remember his being Nightwing? Sure he is currently one of the Bat"men" while Bruce is off around the world building an army to fight whatever is coming...
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Event ( Age)
Parents Murdered (8)
Graduates College (22)
Travels World to train (22-27) (5 years is a pretty good guestamite)
Becomes Batman (28) (Fights Crime and builds his arsenal)
Dick Grayson Becomes Robin (30-31) (Robin 8 years old)
Dick Graduates College (44)(Robin 21)
Dick becomes Nightwing (45) (Nightwing 22)
*Dick is / was Nightwing for at least 2-5 years before becoming Batman , so Bruce is at least 48 -50 years old)
That's why it doesn't add up...
Dick became Robin at 12, and Nightwing at 19. As far as I know, he was a college dropout, which was part of the reason for the estrangement from Bruce. That already takes away at least 7 of your estimated Batman years.
Edit: It's a fool's errand to try and nail down these times. Editorial and writing staff at DC don't even agree about a lot of them, and disregard established facts on a pretty regular basis. One of the people in charge of current continuity wrote a story a few years ago that stated, by the transitive property, that Crisis on Infinite Earths was within the last 5 years, for example.
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A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
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Bruce is in his late 40s|
Originally Posted by Dr_Illuminatis
Here's the Question how old is Bruce? Dick is at the very least in his mid to late twenties. He's been Robin since he was about 8 or 9 years old. So how old was Bruce when he made Dick his ward? Remember Bruce went to and graduated college then traveled the world for a couple of years. He'd been Batman at least 3-5 years before Dick Became Robin. So here's a timetable with approximate ages:
Event ( Age) Parents Murdered (8) Graduates College (22) Travels World to train (22-27) (5 years is a pretty good guestamite) Becomes Batman (28) (Fights Crime and builds his arsenal) Dick Grayson Becomes Robin (30-31) (Robin 8 years old) Dick Graduates College (44)(Robin 21) Dick becomes Nightwing (45) (Nightwing 22) *Dick is / was Nightwing for at least 2-5 years before becoming Batman , so Bruce is at least 48 -50 years old) That's why it doesn't add up... |
Tim and Stephenie is in college and thus 18-22
Jason is 2 years older than Tim
Dick is in his late 20s, early 30s
Cassandra is 1-2 years older than Tim
Barbara is a 2-3 years older than Dick
Damian is 14ish
Alfred is in his 80s
Leslie is in her 80s-90s
Well, this would be a bold move....
Ten years after the world changed, looks like the DC world will be changing too. Bleeding Cool has already talked about a major renumbering of DCs books post-Flashpoint. And it looks like that will occur the first week of September, across the DCU board, with everything going back to #1.
And the DC solicitations for August do seem to back that up. Theres a lot of finality going around With Green Lantern books on epilogue, Teen Titans getting two issues out to hit and #100 in August and even more things will never be the same again solicitations than usual as well, everything is lining up for a big big change in September.
So why is everything going back to #1? And what does the end of Flashpoint mean for the rest of the titles?
But remember, The Dark is coming
Also, I wonder if this is a way for DC to change Superman and his 'official' history enough to help them win the ongoing lawsuit over his character rights.
Go Team Venture!