Durakken

That's what you got out of what I said and while it is a waste of time in my opinion, because it is only postponing the innevitable and wasting money on something that could be spent in other places, but if that's what you want to waste time and money on. Go right ahead.

There is nothing "valuable" in my estimation about the game other than nostalgia, history, and brand name. And while those are nice to have sometimes, it is not the should be focused on. Are you really telling me that the devs can't create a newer better engine? or newer better lore? or newer better mechanics? i don't buy that for a second, but that's what trying to save this game really does. You're fighting for something that could be outdone in short order if you were to allow them to move on as a team.

For bringing in new capital that a start up needs to get going the only thing that is valuable out of those 3 things is the brand name which holds only a small amount of value, but even that with enough of a loyal fan base word of mouth would spread that it is the same people and thus in that sense isn't that valuable either. The only value then of buying the IP is the lore. And while it is cool it'd be like saying that an artist should just keep painting their first painting because it's so awesome as it is, rather than taking those skills and creating something altogether new and likely better.

Skip the buying the IP which will cost all that money, keep the team together, and create a new IP with the funds that you would spend on something that has relatively little value for what you'd pay for it. And maybe you find this all insulting that I would say your efforts are in folly, but they are. No matter what the result is, the best you can hope for is paying several million dollars for a game that due to these hits will continue to lose money likely only lasting a few more years before the numbers become too low to maintain anything more than the lights on with 2 of the 4 or 5 years left the game likely has left (now that it was hit with this) being in the red. And then where does this start up go from there? Nowhere because it doesn't have the money so it either dies or needs new investors and you are back at this same situation, pushed 5 years down road, working with a system that wasn't all that great to begin with from everything that is said.

If you take the money you'd pay for the IP and dump it into a new IP you might be in the red for the same amount of time, but the game "should" be better, you have a clean slate with new fans, and the IP is likely better and you will have a lot more profit in the end.

Assuming people follow the dev team with what they do Buying the game gives you a steady decline while building a new game the risk is virtually the same but it has a much higher RoI for an investor because there is always that spike of new people that are curious.

So in the end all you are doing is wasting time and effort if you are looking for the best possible product and profit. If you're goal is simply to tarnish NCSoft... You're doing a decent job. Or if your goal is to get your game back it's a crap shoot, but I'd bet your largely wasting your time and even if it works out you're going to get a much diminished product.

There is another option that I mentioned and that would be what you'd go with.

I think you're wrong, and even if I'm wrong you can always put in there "if you donate and we can't do this we'll give the money to charity" or something like that. It's a win all the way around.

You guys do realize I was being sarcastic there right? Probably not. My point is that you should be loyal to the dev team, not the game. Loyalty to a creative team will always be more rewarding and better in the long run than holding on to whatever it is they last worked on. You say this is a great community and great devs but all I see being focused on really is "how do we save the game" which in my opinion really doesn't matter.

Thank you Captain-Electric for saying you liked that. I quit doing that because no one else contributed. Glad you saved it some degree.

Point blank, while I do like CoH. CoH is only as great as it is because of great devs working around a system that they need to revamp anyways. And I don't consider myself part of this community for certain reasons that people know about and I have been proven right about. I am more laughing at this than anything because to me it is a matter of reaping what you sow, but that's besides the point. I made peace with the death of CoH about a year ago now. That however doesn't mean that I won't get bored and push you fools into doing something that could be totally awesome... and that is not to save a 8 year old game with a hacked apart engine. And if nothing else at least 1 person saw what the right strategy is to do that which could change so much.

I know how these things work, but that negotiation has nothing to do with what the community can do.

It is simple. It is more or less just a basic selling of share in a company or an RoI, but that's only if you go that route of ownership. If you go with a start up funded by one of those sites then I'm sure access to alpha and beta tests and all like that would be more than enough

Why would a community do that? They care about the game. Not the dev team, which should really make any creative person sad.

I never said the idea is unique. I said that the event would be unique.

First of all, It's always amazing that people don't realize the power of slapping the million down over saying that you can do it, and this uncertainty of "I'd do it! I really really would, but I don't know how much you want...so I can't" is utter idiocy. Do you not understand that the action alone would draw so much more attention from media and other companies that would go "oh hey if they will do that that how can we get in on that."

Oh and I never said anything about the negotians with NCsoft. Don't know. Don't care. My comment was to how to handle ownership if you were to make a player own company which would require contracts and such, but that's not really all that hard to do.

Corporations don't take much if at all to set up. There are large benefits of doing it some places, like, if I remember right, Maryland.

Who would set it up is easy. I would assume one of the head developer.

There is also another strategy. Plan to develop a new game and start now, if you can't get CoH, the game, maintain the spirit. There is nothing that says that you have to raise the money to buy that game because what is really important is the dev team and community so set a goal based on that figure and if you can buy the IP and such, great, if not, sink that into a newer better venture that is the "spiritual" successor.

Game companies and various enterprises have already raised insane amounts of cash and to say that you're worried you can't while bragging about your community is pathetic. And any amount you would need to buy CoH would likely be enough, several times over to fund development for a new game.

What was the number of petitioners? 18,000? If each of them instead of signing that petition were to have donated to such a cause the VIP sub amount for 1 quarter it would 1.08million dollars and that is more than enough to get dedicated developers to working on something, but then I believe that this community is somewhat loyal and the devs do care enough to stay on with that budget.

The question really then comes down to are you about community and loyalty to the developers or do you just want your game.

Well, it's largely because it's not said to other people...

She attempts to say it to her father, but he blows her off
She tells Carter, but he doesn't seem to care.
Carter uses something similar to get the Tharks to fight which is Soldanga is going to conquer Helium and after they are done there they are going to kill you so you should team with Helium to deal with Soldanga before it's too late. This is not the same as "the end of Barsoom"

No it's not. It's the end of the Helium way of living or even just HER way of living.

They don't explain that they feed on the energy... It also doesn't make sense how that even remotely works... but it's acceptable in fantasy...i guess.

Sorta...

Spoilers...
The movie start and the Therm give the weapon to the conqueror. Ok.
The Princess says that if the conqueror wins it will spell the end of Barsoom. Ok.

And then you wait... and wait... and wait... and forget... and then realize... HOW will the Conqueror spell the end for Barsoom?

No clue. There isn't any reason that is the case so the princess is idiotically talking in hyperbole the entire time.

But wait, throughout the film we are shown that the real threat is the therm... in that they want the one side to win... for some reason and don't want the other side to advance for some reason and say all worlds are doomed to death because they suck apparently, but in the end they have equal tech and the blue power thing doesn't seem like it can do anything other than increase the speed of the destruction as we never really see it for anything that would prove useful other than a weapon immediately...

So there is no threat there. The stakes are a lie, but that doesn't keep them from being built up... and then at the end we don't ever find out how exactly they were a threat, the blue power is evidently never developed, and the threat that we are lead to believe exist isn't revealed or defeated in any significant way.


So in other words...
The true stakes of the movie is "The Heart and Life of the Princess"
The movie however builds and never does anything really with "The fate of Barsoom and whether it will die or not"

So you have this confusion of Carter is truly questing for the hart of the woman and this whole other story is being focused on to make it larger than it is.

The Lorax, according to Nchick, has the same problem, and Final Fantasy XII suffers from a similar problem where the story is focused on the wrong person so it cripples a lot of the story telling.

II could really debate this whole fun vs good thing, but i get what you mean and i don't feel like it. Yes it is fun and it's one of the movies you can ignore the plot problems largely, but for something that should have brought this story more into the main stream it's a shame that because you can't really talk about it because once you do you'll start noticing all those problems and thus it is nothing more than a fun movie that noone will remember by years end.

It's especially surprising consider the problem that this movie has Wall-E is an excellent example of how to do this type of movie right and the same guy that directed Wall-E directed this.

i agree, but that's not what I meant at all... the point is that the overall is better in this case because both plots propose to be a way to save Barsoom. The 2012 movie never specifies how this is the case and could be taken as metaphor if not for the Therms, but you only really get exposition about them so the story is incomplete because there is too much emphasis on the saving of Barsoom. where as in the Asylum movie you are told Barsoom is in danger, here's why, and then it is resolved. It's not about stakes it's that it follows through.

Basically the 2012 film isn't really that good in terms of story telling and I'm pretty sure it's more on side of the Movie than the story itself being bad... i haven't read the book yet... I will I've decided to listen to the audiobook version of the Barsoom books and the Discworld books...If you think about it this movie is a Romantic adventure where there should be light amounts of background information that piques your interest, but is never focused on, BUT that's not what the movie does... The movie sets the stakes as saving Barsoom and gives you all this exposition and why Carter is doing this or that with an under lying Romance and you end with a big fight seen that ultimately ends in not saving the world but saving the princess so that you get a romantic ending.

I don't know who made the decision to go with this script or this cut, but whoever it is I really wouldn't allow them those decisions in the future because they show a fundamental lack of understanding about story telling. If it's the Director then I would tell him to stick to directing and not those other parts because he doesn't know what he's doing there.


I love the post-apocalyptic science fantasy style tech... It's part of the reason I like Final Fantasy. I have no problem with the magic tech and indeed I have some of that stuff in the things I'm creating so it would be hypocritical of me to say the least lol

I'm not so sure that's right on the aspect of him being a scout. He's sent there with no way of getting back no way to communicate. Also if I remember right it's not instant teleportation tech, but rather it's like hundreds of thousands of years later when he wakes up.

I don't have a problem with the transporter thing. It's the other parts of it that are broken due to them trying to maintain the story with the astral projection thing.

i don't know if the therm are after him on earth in the books like they are in the movie, but that's enough for him to do the things he did for the goal that he achieved. The "copy" aspect and the "protector" aspect should have been dropped because they just don't work.

And now that i'm thinking about it with the change in background of the therms they make even less sense with that technology because why are you making copies of yourself on barbarous worlds that are in the process of dying? Isn't the last thing you want to do... especially if you're doing it a lot. which means there are clones of you on multiple super dangerous barbarous worlds that are on the verge of some destruction... This is part of the reason you don't change certain elements of a story, in particular its "universe" because then a whole bunch of plotholes arise from those things that weren't there before.

Imagine in the future someone in the future makes Tom Sawyer, but because "white washing" a fence by hand is silly because they have robots that ca do that so he changes it... You have just ruined the story because without that the following rest of the story makes no sense and you might as well just stop right there.

So an amulet that magically copies someone's body, transfers this new body to a different planet, keeping the other body in suspended animation, and at the same time transports itself without all this nonsense is more "realistic" than someone having a soul that can move magically between worlds... which is what the soul does in just about every mythology out there?

If you want it to be "less" confusing, even though its not confusing to begin with. All you have to do is have Carter ask "Is this Hell?" when he gets to Barsoom and then he learns that he is on Mars through "magical" means and if he can find his way book to Earth he can return to life... One could even make the comparison to Dante's Inferno.

... Really? i'm sure if went and looked for it I could find tons of examples.

All you have to do is have John get knocked out and then "from" his body he sits, and stands up, with his body still on the ground. He then just has to ask "am I dead?" walk outside and have the same zoom thing they have in the movie.

This is a standard fair trope that happens in tons of stories. Maybe they won't know what astral projection, or vision quest, or out of body experience is by name... which I highly doubt... they know the trope. People understand this stuff more than the "science" thing that the directors/writers obviously don't understand.

... Ummm What?

The story is science fantasy. It's ok for that to happen. Souls and astral projection are completely within our list of global references and works. What is in the movie tries to keep it Science Fiction and doesn't work because we are given the Therms who supposedly go between planets at will and if that's the case then they'd have to have bodies laying around the universe which is extremely dangerous and no one in their right mind would even remotely use or develop that technology. It makes no sense to create that technology nor to use it and scientifically it's bankrupt. I see where they were going, but it simply doesn't work... and the only reason they did that is so thy can maintain the ERB part of the story which isn't necessary.

Also How can you even remotely say that no one would buy it? "Most" people already buy that they have a soul and "most" people know what vision quests are and "most" people know what astral projection is... Its part of the fantasy element and it works perfectly reasonably in that, but a majority of people in the real world are betting on something like that being fiction so >.>

according to wiki the "transported" is treated as an astral projection of sorts where they aren't really on the same plain, if I'm reading it correctly... That being the case the point before where Carter is transported can't happen, the reason for the tomb is ruined, and the threat carter gives doesn't make much sense as does a few things that happen like the translator drink.

In the movie the transportation is handled as some sort of technology that doesn't quite jive right.

I've not known about this being a book series and I knew most of the movie...

The story diverges only a little when they leave the Tharks and is actually better in overall because of it because the story of the movie is "we must save Barsoom" but there is no "saving" of Barsoom in the 2012 one other than maybe in some meta way where saving the princess saves the planet where as in the other one I saw saves the planet via literal saving the planet's atmosphere, which if wiki is to be believed from a slight skimming seems to be taking a few elements from later stories or the book that this movie left out.

I read the a little bit on some of the other stuff and it seems that one of the more interesting parts that could be expanded on in later sequels, the Therms, can't really be done right because no matter what they do you have to either break completely from the novels and if you do that, what's the point? Or they could keep the story from the novels and ruin the set up in the movie.

My memory may be flawed and i saw the same movie several times. It's possible. I've seen the same name or nearly the same name as it so yeah... It's still nothing really different from that previous movie from my recollection.

So Kirk got sloppy seconds?

I think the models are wrong from what little i know of the subject and won't be even remotely surprised if they don't find it.

I think mass is a result of energy in general...

If you look at e=mc^2 it is energy = mass * the speed of light or in my opinion more accurately as energy/matter is curvature of space multiplied by the maximum amount of change in the area...

or rather it is simply an equation that expresses the relationship between space-time and the stuff in it and how they effect each other.

the equation is always used to figure out much energy you can get from an atom but as far as i know noone ever asked why it is the case that mass increases as you poor energy in it. Maybe i don't understand something, but it always struck me that there would have to me some sort of reason for why it does that and the answer i came up with is basically that there is a maximum amount of change that can occur in a given area and when you increase the amount of stuff there then the amount of change any one object can have is less over all and likewise this causes a drag through the other dimensions causing mass...


It just crossed my mind that if this were the case the estimate for the universe's age would likely be quite different and would somewhat explain dark energy (time is accelerating in areas of less mass) but meh I'm no physicist so what do i know...

Any of the Doctors can order that stuff as they want...

Both JD and Elliot have dated patients so a Nurse taking a women in would not even raise an eyebrow, but both might talk to her about it.

As far as care... I'd go with in between Redbone and HyperStrike's scenario as Kelso would be trying to get rid of the patient but the other Doctors would try to keep her and get her the best care possible. In fact I could see that Kelso's cutting her time could be the catalyst to a scheme to getting a Nurse to take her in to make sure she isn't lost in the system.