DC Relaunching Everything in the Fall?
Maybe.
Nothing else there stirs my interest enough to bother, though.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
MYTH 2: "It's a 'Flash of Light' Reset"
No, a flash of light doesn't change everything without explanation. From all indications, the changes to the DCU will be explained in story, and the place where they get their explanation will likely be Flashpoint #5. "None of it is a radical flash in the sky and boom, things are different," Scott Snyder told Newsarama of the Bat-verse changes, indicating that readers will understand the reasons behind the DCnU. Because all of September's #1 issues are supposed to be new reader friendly, this in-story explanation will probably occur in Flashpoint. (That's not surprising, since Geoff Johns has been tasked with explained big revamps before, from Hawkman's history to Green Lantern's resurrection.) Of course, we expect that most of the changes won't get a highly scientific explanation, and they might actually leave readers scratching their heads. For example, we doubt the exact theories behind how Grifter is suddenly in the DCU will be detailed. But something does "happen" to cause this. And it happens in continuity, and in story. ---This one really doesnt matter to me. But your mileage may vary. |
This is about the only explination that I can think of that makes any sense at all, really.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
Lightfoot,
I concede the point on reboots, but I guarantee you from my perspective I've walked into stores over the last few years and I've lost track over the multiple changes of Batmen, Supermen and Flashes to the point where I never felt I could even remotely get on board as a casual reader. From Identity Crisis to Infinite Crisis to Final Crisis, DC didn't seem like they could stop having big multi-title crossover events to the point I frankly lost interest even as a semi-casual reader. |
Regarding Zero Hour or Flashpoint, you're putting words in my mouth by inference. If I had a point to make about Flashpoint, I would've made it. I didn't read Flashpoint, therefore I don't have an opinion to offer on it. Done. |
What's your point about Donna Troy? Are you just arguing that in your opinion 'Who is Donna Troy?' wasn't well-recieved, it's what...justification for removing her entirely? I don't know what to say there. |
The point is that you are making judgments and condemning something before you have even seen it. When the story comes out, and if it sucks, feel free to condemn it all you want.
1938: Are you just being facetious? I'm saying DC has a rich history to draw upon. Period. You want to play some semantic game that I obviously don't know the rules of here. |
Again. Why was it acceptable to cherry pick then, but it is not acceptable to cherry pick now?
Nothing is permanent in comics: you know this, I know this. They do these things because the readership is largely cyclical and long-term collectors are a minority of their market. |
I've responded to your points as politely as I feel I can to you, but instead of having a discussion, you're reactionary and almost spoiling for a fight. You're welcome to rant or argue or make whatever point you'd care to if you choose to reply. But if I wanted a sparring partner, I'd go box in a gym. You've clearly chosen to be argumentative with more people than just myself in this thread, and you're welcome to continue to do so, just not with me. |
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
I've never picked up a DC comic and only a few Marvel ones, why? Because I never know what is going on with the characters, I don't want to get into a story halfway through when back issues are a tough deal to find,
|
Any person that has a slight interest in comics know they can go online read an article or two and figure out the history of the character or find out the trades you should read to find out the history...
or there is this saying that has been going on for a long time now... "Every issue could be someone's first issue" so every issue contains a recap in some way with most books that informs you enough to enjoy what's going on.
As well as that but having several different Supermans spread across different Dimensional incarnates just makes it difficult to even know what I'm getting into. |
So for me, this reboot is hopefully going to give me an entry into DC, obviously they cant keep doing this all the time to get new entries, but with digitial distribution, back issueing becomes less of an... issue... |
Now as an avid hater of batman that rules him out for the issue to follow, I'm a big fan of Magic as an origin, but there doesn't seem to be much of that going around, Zatanna or Raven appearing as mainline heroes would probably cement a set for me. |
Let's discuss the you like magic characters and just said you'd probably buy comics where Zatana is the star...
Zatana has her own comic... it is being erased by this
Zatana was supposed to play a major role in Batman: The Dark Knight which has now been scrapped pretty much
And with this relaunch which they called it but are now calling it a reboot they are, as far as I can tell, deleting 2 of my favorite characters... Black Alice and Misfit which both are magic based.
Which brings up another point... I would consider Tim Drake, Stephenie Brown, Cassandra Cain, Black Alice, and Misfit as if not the best characters they have up in the top 10 or 20. They are under used and under utilized and now with this reboot as far as we know 4 out of those 5 are pretty much deleted. And we haven't brought up others on that list like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn, Black Canary, Kyle Rayner, Superboy, Barbara Gordon, Bart Allen, Cassandra Sandsmark, Selina Kyle, Renee Montoya, Jim Gordon, Joker, Lois Lane, and Huntress.
I can guarantee half of those 20 are being deleted or so completely rewritten that they might as well be. At least 3/4 of that list are going to have large swathes of their history and characters that make them so good removed or bastardized and ALL of them are likely to suffer in some way, from bad character costume redesigns to bad interpretations of those characters to just out and out deletion to so far from what they are they might as well have been deleted.
I agree, its a very hard thing to market to.
You are objecting to the New DC Universe as it will be following Flashpoint. I haven't read Flashpoint either, as I dislike multi-title crossover events. At the end of Flashpoint, DC history will be rewritten, just like Crisis and Zero Hour. In particular, you seem to be objecting to the fact that DC will be cherry picking which parts of history are still valid in their creation of this New DC Universe. I put forth to you that DC did this with Crisis, Zero Hour, and Infinite Crisis. Why was it acceptable for DC to cherry pick then, but not now?
|
Crisis on Infinite Earths = Written to tell fans that yes we know having 200000 different canons is a bit confusing so we are going to make 1 canon. This made 1 past to figure out what happened and made it so there was only 1 story you needed to know, simplifying the DCU's backstory, but it did NOT touch current comics. Current comics simply continued to exist, but Everything past crisis the rule was established that nothing that happened before this point is known canon unless it is said or shown in some way in current books.
Zero Hour = When this was written several problems cropped up when they slammed all the stories together and there were still no way to know which future was the canon future. This fixed those few minor back stories and created a 1 future canon. Again, current comics simply continued on. They weren't changed in any way.
Infinite Crisis + 52 = This simply recreated the Else Worlds but limited them. This is for people that loved the stories of the golden age or Batman Beyond or some other else world to have those stories as well as have the main canon. This essentially made those thousands of continuities into 52 individual continuities with 52 histories and futures. Again, current comics weren't changed at all.
Final Crisis = If i remember right... had no impact on canon whatsoever
Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne = Also had no impact on canon whatsoever.
You ask what is different about these? Simplification, explanation, no impact on current comics.
Flashpoint doesn't explain anything, it doesn't simplify anything, and it completely changes all current comics.
ie. It's the complete opposite of every major "reboot" DC has ever done.
its funny to see just how much this thread has imploded into folks trying to top or "correct" what someone else said....
Like someone else said in this thread (dont remember who at this point and honestly dont feel like looking right now), the whole thing is fiction..... I will never understand why people work themselves into such a tizzy over something like this. Enjoy it for what it is. No one is holding a weapon to your head forcing you to purchase and/or read any of these comics.
You only fail if you give up. - Dana Scully
Time Jesum Transeuntum Et Non Riverentum - Nick Cave
We're not just destroyers, at the same time we can be saviors. - Allen Walker
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
In main, I pulled your post out because you made the ridiculous claim that DC had slapped you, a loyal fan, in the face. DC did no such thing. DC is making a business decision. You are taking it personally because they are making a business decision that you feel is going to tarnish your memories.
|
'Why is this bit of DC history fine but you're complaining about this one? Why are you complaining about this, but not that?' Did I miss the part where I apparently had to comment on every single change that DC has done in the last twenty-five years? If you'd talked to me in 1985 or when Zero Hour hit, I would've had something to say. I'm referencing now because it's happening now.
If I say something about DC's history, you call me out for somehow being exclusive or isolationist about the history. You're arguing semantics. You're literally assuming you know what I feel and what my reactions are from one sentence. I've done my best to respond to you, but I'm done now because you cherry pick your arguments as much as DC is cherry picking their continuity.
Done talking to you now, because you just want to 'win'. Good luck with that.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
@Joshua.
I posted that pic because it actually appeared in a comic, and because Power Girl is a prime example of why things should be revamped. Since the Crisis, she's been an Atlantian to possibly a Kryptonian, to being Supergirl from another Earth, and as a result, total inconsistencies in her powers and story. The only thing that remained the same, although they did get bigger as did the hole in her costume, was her boobs. From seeing the pictures of the DCnU, I'm assuming that she will appear in a costume that covers her up a bit.
|
There has been some mention that she will appear early on as Karen Star with the relaunch but they have been very shady about not mentioning her Power Girl identity. Has a lot of folks worried they decided to depower her down to ordinary human and stuff in as someone's supporting cast. Shame too because her book was one to the few actually gaining numbers instead of loosing them.
Gotta say I don't like a lot of what I've seen for this reboot. Birds of Prey, one of my favorite books, seems to have the distinction of the more awful character redesigns of the lot. Plus they seems to be pushing Superboy farther and farther into Emo territory.
I'm gonna try some of the books in September but I'm only giving them 1 issue to hook me. I figure if they can't manage that then this whole thing is going to end up a wash
Just saw the Flashpoint "checklist" in Batgirl #22. There's 37 books on it JUST for July and August. THAT is what people are tired of and why sales are dropping. At a conservative $3 per book, you're looking at $111 JUST for the Flashpoint "epic" for those two months. That's ridiculous.
Just saw the Flashpoint "checklist" in Batgirl #22. There's 37 books on it JUST for July and August. THAT is what people are tired of and why sales are dropping. At a conservative $3 per book, you're looking at $111 JUST for the Flashpoint "epic" for those two months. That's ridiculous.
|
The 90s almost killed comics. Vast crossover events and producing for the comics investor, rather than the comics reader were the things that almost did them in in the 90s. They have backslid on the crossover events, here's hoping they don't forget about the reader in the process and kill comics for good.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
At least they haven't gone back to five variant cover, holofoil, polybagged with trading cards, "Pulse Pounding First Issue(s)" again.
The 90s almost killed comics. Vast crossover events and producing for the comics investor, rather than the comics reader were the things that almost did them in in the 90s. They have backslid on the crossover events, here's hoping they don't forget about the reader in the process and kill comics for good. |
Just went through the books for August and saw Red Hood and the Outlaws. I have a personal attachment to Starfire and dislike the possibility she is now on a team with a different former Robin. If they "get together" the jokes will never end. "So which Robin haven't you been with?" Oh, and let's not forget she's being labled an outlaw. Has she suddenly become more like Blackfire? Uhg! And please don't get me started on the new Birds of Prey *cries*. Put Gail Simmone back on the book! Put that team back in the book! *shakes head* Sadly, this will not be my DCU. Someone said this is a business decision and I agree, but it will alienate a lot of older readers. My brother was a staunch DC comics fan. Today he brought home his last books. He did have one grand comment, "They should put Bruce Tim in charge."
Just went through the books for August and saw Red Hood and the Outlaws. I have a personal attachment to Starfire and dislike the possibility she is now on a team with a different former Robin. If they "get together" the jokes will never end. "So which Robin haven't you been with?" Oh, and let's not forget she's being labled an outlaw. Has she suddenly become more like Blackfire? Uhg! And please don't get me started on the new Birds of Prey *cries*. Put Gail Simmone back on the book! Put that team back in the book! *shakes head* Sadly, this will not be my DCU. Someone said this is a business decision and I agree, but it will alienate a lot of older readers. My brother was a staunch DC comics fan. Today he brought home his last books. He did have one grand comment, "They should put Bruce Tim in charge."
|
Ok. So most of the October solicits are out, which means some questions we have had from the September solicits and covers is actually being answered. Also, I reread some of the September solicits and gained some more knowledge. I’m just going to touch on the ones I find interesting.
Birds of Prey: The woman on the front cover with the tattoo that nobody was able to identify is apparently called “Starling”. A.K.A. Ev Crawford. Whoever that is. And “Ev”? Surely it’s supposed to be “Eve”. Whatever, she appears to be a new character. (Sadly this info was in the September solicit, just nobody read it as we were too busy looking at pictures, manking judgments and bemoaning the loss of well-liked costumes.)
Fury of Firestorm: Looks like Ronnie and Jason have been sent back to High School. And some military team wants to kill them. Firestorm is their answer. And apparently the funky looking, skeletal-faced Firestorm in the background of Issue #1 is the merged form of Ronnie and Jason. And according to solicits for #2, there’s may be a third person caught up in this. But with Teen Titans and Blue Beetle, don't we already have enough teen superoes in school? Why did they have to revert Ronnie and Jason? I am a bit miffed, but will still read to see where it goes.
Superboy: Apparenty Project Cadmus is no longer responsible for creating Superboy. Project N.O.W.H.E.R.E. is the new origin. Hopefully we will learn just what N.O.W.H.E.R.E. stands for.
Teen Titans: You know that funky looking insect-like character with the funky arms on the cover of #1? Well apparently her name is – sadly – Bugg. Still no word on who Miss Black Smokey Girl is. It looks like there’s going to be several “team building” issues here. Also Project N.O.W.H.E.R.E. from Superboy ties in to the first few issues of Teen Titans and Kid Flash might just be another of their projects. Hard to tell from the solicits. Gonna read this myself.
Green Arrow: Remember this pic of Ollie?
Well, we get a new one with Issue #2. And, well, let’s just say Smallville seems to have played a bigger part in his costume than we thought. Also, he goes from goatee to what looks to be Wolverine chops! Well, almost. Also apparently his company is no longer Queen Insustries, but QCore.
Hawk and Dove: Kestrel appears to be back, this time in male form. Also it would appear that Brightest Day did happen and Dawn is dating Deadman. Can’t see that relationship being more than a dead-end....heh.
Blue Beetle: The combined solicits for September and October seem to make this read like a re-telling of Blue Beetle’s origin. Complete with Jaime being in High School, and the scarab having just fused with him. I like Beetle still being Jaime, but not the loss of the former stories.
Captain Atom: Combined solicits again make this sound like a retelling/reimagining of the character and his origins.
Justice League International: Reading both September and October solicits makes it clear that this team is just being formed. Apparently no former team called Justice League International has been around. Also, and surprisingly, Booster Gold would appear to be the leader of the team! Go Booster!
Huntress: She gets a 6-issue mini-series starting October! She’s also linked to the Bat-Family in that her series was placed in the Bat-family area of the solicits. Anyways, what happens in this series will apparently tie into Birds of Prey.
Batgirl: Issue #2 supposedly already has Barbara questioning her return to active duty. Good. There’s other girls out there who could do the job.
Penguin: Pain and Predjudice: the Penguin gets his own five-issue miniseries starting October. Could be interesting.
Stormwatch: #2 gives us reasons why Martian Manhunter is on the team. Also something happens to the moon in Superman #1 and Stormwatch has to deal with it. For some reason.
Deathstroke: combined solicits provide a synopsis where someone thinks Deathstroke has been a mercenary and assassin for too long and it’s time to “retire” him. And we all know how assassins are ‘retired’. Also, instead of having a broadsword, he now has a ‘giant sword’. *cough* Um…no word yet if his big sword is made of promethium still or not.
Suicide Squad: remember those comments we had about Harley’s costume when we saw the cover of #1? Well, in #2 her corset appears to really be straining to do its job.
O.M.A.C.: something we didn’t apparently see earlier about this series as we were too busy lamenting the past: apparently Brother Eye and Checkmate are at war. Interesting… Also, O.M.A.C. no longer stands for One Man Army Corps, but One MACHINE Army Corps. And newcomer Kevin Kho is the O.M.A.C.
The Shade: appears to be a 12 issue series starting in October. I don’t know who “The Shade” is, but this looks interesting.
Frankenstien, Agent of S.H.A.D.E: The series looks interesting. And Frankie gets a team: the Creature Commandos. The team looks to have a four armed “Bride of Frankenstein,” a Japanese school girl complete with sailor outfit and domino mask, a mummy, a werewolf, a flying, intelligent monkey, a undersea mer-woman with tentacle legs, and possibly zombies? Should be a fun read!
The Superman family of solicits are not out yet. Perhaps Monday will reveal them and we can talk more.
Also new to me is how DC is breaking down its universe into sections. The Edge, The Dark, Green Lantern, Bat-Family, Superman, Justice League/Young Justice. I suppose it’s convenient for them, and it also lets us kind of know where to look for stories of a particular bent.
I find it interesting how much of the new stuff is tied to shade in one way or another. We have the S.H.A.D.E organization (Super Human Advanced Defense Executive) from Frankenstein, Shade the Changing Man (glad to see him back) and The Shade getting his own series. Could just be a coincidence, but it stands out in my brain.
So, all in all, it appears that when Barry Allen returns form Flashpoint/the past, whatever happens during Flashpoint, Barry comes back somewhat earlier than he left. I’m not sure I like all this retelling/reimagining of character origins just yet, as in the process we lose history that I liked, but I’m at least willing to give things a chance.
Well, we get a new one with Issue #2. And, well, let’s just say Smallville seems to have played a bigger part in his costume than we thought. Also, he goes from goatee to what looks to be Wolverine chops! Well, almost. Also apparently his company is no longer Queen Insustries, but QCore. |
Superboy: Apparenty Project Cadmus is no longer responsible for creating Superboy. Project N.O.W.H.E.R.E. is the new origin. Hopefully we will learn just what N.O.W.H.E.R.E. stands for. |
Suicide Squad: remember those comments we had when we saw the cover of #1 about Harley’s costume? Well, in #2 her corset appears to really be straining to do its job. |
There can be no more "flashing" of things like Supergirls superpanties, but costumes like Harley's, wherein one moderate sneeze or hiccup would mean an FCC fine - not to mention it being apparently 8 sizes too small, is completely ok? Side note: Adam Warren, the guy who writes/draws Empowered, made a pretty funny take with Emp cosplaying as Supergirl. It's on his deviantart site.
Also, where happened to her nerps? That doesn't look at all comfortable, plus, as low as it is, she either had some cosmetic surgery or takes an undue amount of work to properly seat her girls. And that pose...eesh...
The Shade: appears to be a 12 issue series starting in October. I don’t know who “The Shade” is, but this looks interesting. |
I posted those pics just for such discussion.
Keep it coming people!
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
oh....must have had a brain fart there....I dunno really....I just remember Lobdell doing some particular story that I just did not care for....
You only fail if you give up. - Dana Scully
Time Jesum Transeuntum Et Non Riverentum - Nick Cave
We're not just destroyers, at the same time we can be saviors. - Allen Walker