Death penalty

I was reading an article on massively [http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/03...th-penalties/] where it describes the top 10 actions against the player for dying.
Now i was just wondering which of these do you suggest would best fit our game, keep the one we have, suggest your own?

Here is the list they came up with.

1. Permadeath
2. Huge financial and potential skill loss
3. Experience loss and deleveling
4. Full-body looting
5. The corpse run (old-style)
6. Future xp debt
7. Rez sickness
8. Stacking debuffs
9. Item Damage
10. Nothing

So you're trying to make PVP even MORE undesirable to play (if such a thing is possible)?

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

#3. It gives noobs an incentive to clue up, since if they don't they'll hit a point where they start losing XP faster than they gain it.

We are fine with what we have, it suits the genre of inspiration more.

...if it isn't broke...












...don't fix it.

10. None of the above. The *lack* of crap like that is part of what's appealing about COH.

I've dealt with "rez sickness," having to pay "soul healers" to get XP back, loss of items and the like. HATED it. Especially when it's a death due to something like lag. Those games tend to get dumped.

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I'm fine with the system we have.

In this game, there is no death. Therefore, the minor debt is fine as a 'penalty'.

What's PvP?

Standard rez comes with a temp disorient, so we have rez sickness.

Many of these - particularly corpse-running - are especially punishing for casual and/or solo players. Getting into trouble and not being able to get out on your own, and losing your cash, levels and/or gear as a result, is a nasty risk to face for a player without a big guild.

Like others have said, a lot of these are really rough on newer players who are still learning how to play (my first character in CoH was a blaster I solo'd to 30. And I hadn't learned about "Fitness" until around, oh, level 25 or so. I died a lot), people who solo a lot, squishies, and when you run into rough content. I mean, can you imagine if our enhancements all degraded with each death and running the Apex, especially when it first came out and we were all "Holy crap, that blue stuff HURTS!" and were still figuring out how to not die? It'd suuuuuuuuck (for reference, the Apex is one of my favorite TF's in the game).

I admit that things like decreasing equipment durability/performance and the constant money sink of repairing all your stuff is a major turnoff for me. It's a game mechanic that always annoys me, since durability degradation always seems to be based around your gear being made of paper.

Heck, just playing a squishy period would be a nightmare. Squishies are squishy and blasters are called the Floor Inspectors Union Local 437 for a reason. Now imagine if every time you got splutted, your enhancements decreased in power and you had to pay to repair them. Or you had to run back into the enemy filled area and retrieve your carcass. Or you had a long lasting debuff that seriously nerfed your ability to be useful. It'd be un-fun.

I joined the game around Issue 12, so I didn't see this myself, but I'm told that back in the day XP Debt could pile up to the point that you'd have to repay multiple levels of debt. I like the way it is now, where it's at most a minor inconvenience and a way for the game to say "Try not to do that again," plus a way to get progress on badges. Works pretty well, I think.

The one we have is plenty. They've softened the debt up a bit too much in recent years, yeah, but debt is a perfectly fine death penalty, IMO. XP loss and deleveling were just painful.

I'm fine with the system we have. I see no reason why we would need a different one.

*Sets on Damz with the n00b Hammer*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I rather liked number 8, Stacking Debuffs.

It would really curb the attempts at unnecessary risks if folks started having an actually harder time to play the character the more they were defeated. It's also a much more tangible penalty than experience debt, but far more manageable than the other options.

Rez sickness might also be a good one, but we've already sort of got that with the disorientation provided by Awakens and such (as Anti Proton explained earlier). Further complicating that concept (such as having a sickness attached to any kind of reviving, even an Empathy Defenders Revive; huh? What!?) would just be annoying.

In the end, though, I would be perfectly fine if the system we have stayed the way it is. It's simple, it's casual, it's, honestly, fun. It reminds you that you're playing a game and don't have to take any of this seriously. You could be trying to get through some raid right now, but then suffer a teamwipe. Maybe it's a catastrophic teamwipe (Leaguewipe). Oh well. You can always try again later... And it's not like it cost you anything more than time to do it. It's not like you're going to lose equipment or levels as a penalty...

No, you can pick yourself up, dust off, and try again. That's what rocks about this system.

I've been playing MMOs since 1999 and the one I have played for the longest (5 years) had:

3. Experience loss and deleveling
4. Full-body looting
5. The corpse run (old-style)

On one particularly bad day I was having, I went from level 41 to level 39 due to lag. I logged off the game for a week, simply left my guild a message that I had to take a small break. I didn't give up on the character, he eventually reached level 52 (as he was no longer my main) and from what I've heard, they've drastically reduced all three penalties or even removed some. I don't know, I haven't gone back since 2004. Could our death system be a little bit more grievous? Sure, but it doesn't need to be. A solo player's debt doesn't automagically disappear (unless they log off and stay logged off for a while).

It's a fun list, in total I've been parts of games that had the first half of 2 in the late game and 4 or 9 if you chose to avoid number 4. One that had only the full extent of number 2. Another one that had a combination of 7 and 8. Although I would be interested in how any MMO could sell number 1. I mean, the MMO I spoke of in the first paragraph had a tournament in a server they made specifically with number 1 and entirely open PvP. No level restrictions, no race restrictions, all out war. The character I made died about 7 times, so he only ever got as high as level 14 or so out of like, I think, at the time 60 or 65 levels. It's a shame I forgot what the winner got.

Some of my characters

Number ten is my favorite.

Now there's nothing wrong with failure as part of a video game, it's a pretty vital part, but outright punishing the player, well, it just doesn't make the game more fun. Especially if you pay 15 bucks a month to get your dose of fun. Kicking your customers' teeth in for giving you money is kinda bad business. Well, it would be if MMO players didn't have masochistic tendencies.

There's also the fact the way an MMO punishes you changes how you play the MMO, obviously. I still remember my first MMO, that one with the catgirls from that big Japanese developer, and it loved its XP loss and deleveling. It was so damn bad that most teams can be described as insufferably cowardly. You had these XP Parties that consisted of most people standing around in one safe spot while a tank goes and fetches you one enemy at the time and once that enemy's down you get to wait another minute or two before the next single target. Excitement abounds.

It was so bad that there was also quite a bit of class-discrimination going on. So I'm all "hey, I wanna play a Dark Knight and use a scythe as a weapon!", but I just get told not to because scythes have horrible DPS and Dark Knights are also altogether inferior to other classes so nobody will let me party with them. Imagine if in our game we are compelled to kick Peacebringers not only because of their low damage-output but quit and reform our teams to get rid of the kheldian cooties because cysts are just so scary.

Obviously we don't have that stuff in our game, and I believe a big reason is the lack of any punishing the players for not playing correctly. You know what the lack of punishing makes CoX? Carefree. It's a carefree game you can play just to relax. You don't have to worry about aggroing a second mob and causing your team to wipe and end up blacklisted in the entire game as the worst player ever. Instead the team just shrugs it off, you learn your lesson and everyone is having a good time.

So maybe that's why CoX' playerbase is considered unusually friendly and helpful among MMOs? Since we don't have to view other players as people that can potentially **** us over and ruin a week's worth of progress, since we don't have to fear other players, we can treat every player as a blank slate and have no major hesitations to team up with them for an hour or two of fun.

So yeah, long story short, I am fine with what we have. Let's keep this game fun and not punish players for playing it.

1. Permadeath - Been there, done that.
2. Huge financial and potential skill loss - Temporary, been there. Permanent, no.
3. Experience loss and deleveling - Been there, done that x1000.
4. Full-body looting - Refused to play any MMO with this feature.
5. The corpse run (old-style) - Been there, done that x 1000.
6. Future xp debt - Been there, done that x 1000.
7. Rez sickness - Been there, done that x 1000.
8. Stacking debuffs - Not sure what this means.. similar to rez sickness?
9. Item Damage - Been there, done that x 1000.
10. Nothing

numbe 3 is why i left a certain japanese mmo based on a long running rgp series, cursing and shaking the dust from my feet and avoiding he mmo genre itself until coh. our current one is good, leave it.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

I've played games which have done most of them and in short never again.

I play for fun, chats and laughs.

I played one MMO where a mission could take an hour but if things went wrong there would be 2 or more hours telling everyone how bad they played. I ended up solo just didn't want the aggro.

Here if things go wrong it's more "Oh well shall we try again".

Come on folks this is a superhero game. I choose a different option.

11. Permadeath and the character disappears from it's slot. Then a month later it shows up in a different slot with a new costume, name, and a partial power set change. Then after a couple months of not performing too well it switches back to it's original name, costume, powers and slot.

or

11b. Permadeath. But you gain 4 new slots with 4 completely new characters that have the same name as the original character but different powers. Then in a couple months the original character returns and the others vanish.