Death penalty

As others have said, should one desire severe penalties for defeat, the tools exist right now to punish oneself quite severely; up to and including the death-by-deletion of the "failing" character.

Anyone has the right to do this to their own alts all the livelong day. Please do so, and stop trying to dictate what others do with theirs.

When I was new to the game, one day I was redside with a friend and his girlfriend, in a Nemesis mission cranked up to Relentle..... I mean, Redonkulous. We were in an office building and the Nemesis were chasing us through elevators. I died so many times and got so upset that I actually logged off to avoid more debt. [I was new to MMOs, and foolish] That is quite funny to me now, but my point is that some people hate death penalties just that much. Let's not scare off new people, whatcha say? I will never devote time and effort to see a defeated character wiped off my character roster. I would never pay to be treated like that.

Personally, I feel that people should keep their noses out of my business and stop trying to motivate me to play better so that I serve their purposes more appropriately. If you feel that a lack of permadeath has made me a sloppy, unappealing team-mate, then don't team with me. I will not miss your hardcore company and I'm sure you'll find a much more capable team-mate than me.

Personally, the only motivation I want my games to give me is the motivation to have fun. If that means leaping off the tops of tall buildings, fine. If that means fighting with no regard for safety, fine. I don't need the grim reaper tapping me on the shoulder to have fun, perplexing as that might sound.

As long as defeat is not the preferable way to win fights - and it isn't - then no death penalty is necessary. The point of death penalty mechanics isn't to make people AFRAID of defeat, it's to make defeat the worst possible solution to any problem. Even absent from debt, being defeated is still the worst possible solution to any fight in City of Heroes in all but a few cases. Resurrecting in battle is perilous and takes many inspirations to avoid being rekilled, and even then it puts you at a disadvantage. Going to the hospital takes time and involves much zoning, all the while your enemies are regenerating.

On the flip side, defeat IS a legitimate combat strategy if you have an offensive or at least reliable self-resurrection power. People who have Rise of the Phoenix or Soul Transfer are well justified to save their inspirations, allow themselves to be killed and then resurrect for massive damage or powerful stun, as well as a full heal and endurance recovery. When others on your team have ally resurrection powers, then it's reasonable to focus on saving one person while letting another fall, because that other can be resurrected with full health and endurance. These are legitimate strategies. Resurrection powers are not the red-headed stepchildren of power picks that are only useful if you screw up. They are legitimate powers, and avoiding using them is exactly why death penalties are stupid.

Games are not fun when they punish their players. Players who ask for punishment to OTHERS for self-serving reasons are hypocrites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I'd be okay with adding #8: Stacking Debuffs, with a couple caveats.

1) They can't be too debilitating, dying and coming back completely unable to effectively do anything would suck. Keep it something simple like a 10% damage debuff for 120 seconds after rezzing, or a 10% to-hit debuff. Nothing crazy. It could also be counteracted by something as simple as poppiing an inspiration.

2) The debuff should only happen when you use a wakie or a temp rez power. Any actual rez powers such as Rise of the Phoenix or Soul Transfer should not apply the debuff, since they are part of that powerset's theme. Ally rezzes should not apply it either.

3) Going to the hospital should not apply the debuff, and if you die multiple times within the 120 second window, going to the hospital should remove any that have stacked thus far. But, using rez powers won't remove previously acquired debuffs, so if you use a wakie and then die and are rezzed by an empath, it will prevent a second debuff, but won't remove the first.

4) There should be a limit to how many debuffs can stack at once. Like, say, a stack of 5 would be the max. If you die 5 times in less than 2 minutes, you have bigger problems than how many debuffs you have on you anyway.

It's something that would add some flavor to the game, but it wouldn't be too horrible for people if they happen to die a few times in rapid succession. It would also make sense, you just died and came back from the dead, or were on death's door, it is perfectly reasonable for you to be slightly less effective for a couple minutes afterward.

Now, I don't necessarily think this needs to be added. But if I had to choose something from the OPs list other than "Nothing", that's the one I would pick.

Why would it be such a horrible thing to add a 10% damage debuff that only applies when you use a wakie, lasts for 2 minutes, and can be easily circumvented by using a single red inspiration?

It's barely more than we have now. Since you only replied to the one sentence, I get the feeling you stopped reading my post right there.

What exactly is the point of this discussion?

Note: I never said I WANTED harsher penalties for dying, just that if one had to happen, I would be okay with the one I outlined.