Dollhouse

Yes (The Horned God pub in London), but one wonderful thing about the RP community in TSW is that it's not uncommon to run across roleplay most anywhere appropriate. Examples: Franklin Mansion in Blue Mountain (in the sitting room, of course!), the inn in Harburesti (sp...) village in the Besieged Farmlands, the Romany camp in the Carpathian Fangs, etc.

Pretty much any place it makes sense to sit down and chat...

Same on both counts. That's the more natural configuration to me.

Yeah, it gets tricky, for sure. You really have to keep moving in most TSW combat situations...getting clear of enemy AoE and cone attacks (as well as the charging attacks from the damned Ak'ab!) is critical. I do a lot of circle strafing (Q+D or A+E combos) and usually double-tap S to tumble clear of those "expanding circle" AoE attacks. It usually works. Usually.

I also find I'm able to alternate between the number key row and the hotbar icons for attack activation, depending on the movement situation (and whether or not the attack has an activation time or not). I can use the number keys when I'm not in full strafing mode, obviously, but I switch to the icons when my left hand is busy with strafing movement. See above about usually working. When it doesn't? Thos anima wells you rez in sure are pretty, aren't they?

While I generally agree with the points you're making, I want to point out that this sort of thing is a matter of pure numbers, really. The key number for someone deciding their monetization strategy is what the marketing world refers to as "customer lifetime value." That is, how much $ are you netting from the average customer, ever. There's the "long, slow trickle" you get with a lot of comparatively low average order value purchases over time...versus the "blast 'o cash" you get from people spending a whole bunch of money once. It works a little differently for a game (small playerbase that hangs around for years vs huge playerbase that evaporates quidkly), but the two modalities still apply.

With an MMO, it would seem like the former is probably better, at least for a monthly sub game (and possibly even a f2p "freemium" or b2p model with a cash shop). Even if you attract fewer players up front than a flashy, heavily marketed game with little staying power might garner, if they stick with you, their CLV will be higher. However (and this is a real big "however"), you also have to factor in your monthly carrying costs over that time. Your operating expenses for a long run with full support and new content development will obviously be many times higher than if you grabbed the cash from a flashy debut, then put the game on minimally-staffed life support once the "locusts" all moved on to the next new-and-shiny and only a few die-hards remained. the latter strategy seems sleazy to us (because it is...), but that's how the corporate world works, for the most part: hard, cold numbers.

I tend to agree with this, SR: a large chunk of CoH's infuriated fan base has certainly made an effort to ding NCSoft, and I think that effort has had some effect...but not nearly the effect that NCSoft's own actions have had. From the Tabula Rasa debacle to the inept handling of the shuttering of CoH to the current dust-up in GW2, they're proving singularly inept in their handling of their Western efforts. They have some of the worst reviews I've ever seen on Glassdoor (the Stateside offices seem like positively hellish places to work).

Moreover, I just don't think they have a clue about the Western gaming market. They do okay when they buy into Western developers' products, but they way they handle those products, combined with their stumbling attempts to introduce Asian games into the Western market make me think that their understanding of that market's preferences is weak at best. I have little doubt that Blade in Hole, er...Blade & Soul is going to tank badly here (slutty softcore meets grindfest? Oh, dear...).

I genuinely see NCSoft retreating entirely from the Western gaming market in a few years' time. Their short- to medium-ranged plans obviously require going through with porting B&S to the West, continuing to support GW2 in order to try and amortize their considerable investment, and releasing Wildstar (if it actually gets finished in a reasonable timeframe...). But beyond that? I think that "realignment of company focus" PR waffle has a very real element of truth in it: they're outta here.

My issue with CO is that the setting is a bit too much of the cliched comicbook superhero thing for me. It's not as bad about being horribly campy (like a bad knockoff of The Tick, without the irony) as it was at launch, but it's still got a pretty high cheese factor. That's pure poison for an immersion junkie like me. I enjoy the game from a pure gameplay standpoint (I like the combat system a fair bit better than the one in CoH), but the game just doesn't "grab" me, even on my second attempt. My three month sub runs out in a week or so...haven't logged on in a month.

TSW, on the other hand, works perfectly for me, despite the combat system being meh at best. I don't care so much about the "super powers" aspect (I'd have preferred that to be toned down enormously, in fact), but the story writing, contextual setting, and so much more about the game is simply brilliant. Immersion heaven...

Likewise. The Elin in particular were vomit-inducing. Mind you, the rather cartoonish graphics aren't a bad match with the over-the-top combat animations, absurdly outsized weapons, and other elements of that portion of the high fantasy genre that isn't even trying for any kind of realism. Doesn't work at all for me, though, so despite being interested in the combat system, I never even considered trying the game.

Good observation about the CO class system (a separate thing from the combat system in my reckoning, too). The freeform architecture in CO is a lot of fun, but you can indeed make yourself a really gimped character! Fortunately, respec'ing is easy.

I also like how TSW does it, with a completely open "ability wheel" from which you can eventually gain every ability (over 500). Many of them have effects on other abilities, making it possible to achieve interesting and effective symbioses. You assemble "decks" of 14 abilities, half active, half passive. You can save a number of decks for easy recall, which can be done at any time (out of combat).

As far as combat systems go, I actually like CO's better than CoH's. It's a bit more dynamic on a number of levels, and you can set up the UI to simulate reticule targeting. It's not actually real-time collision/hit box detection, of course, but it still gives much of the same feel, which I prefer. I subbed for three months after The Dread Announcement, but I find the game still just fails to "grab" me, just as it did in beta and at launch. It's not a bad game by any means...it just doesn't quite work for me.

And, sadly, after Nov. 30, GW1 will be the only NCSoft game I care about. I still play it (albeit in fits and starts these days) and I still enjoy it. I's the only high fantasy game I retain any interest in.

The GW1 community is no less committed than the CoH one, though (although it's even smaller these days). I would be stunned if there weren't emulators running almost immediately.

Torchlight is the real Diablo 3 anyway...

Indeed it is. Fallen Earth did a terrific job of this, in fact. Real targeting to reward player skill and various bonuses based on character build and gear. Until the (pretty much botched) port to Gamers First's very different server architecture, the game played well and with minimal latency in most locations. Reticule targeting and character skill and gear progression can combine in an MMO.

Yeah, maybe so. I mean, smooth animations are not uncommon in single-player and console games, so I suppose it may be an MMO netcode limitation thing. CoH seems to have traded a number of things graphically for unmatched smoothness of character movement and exceptional physics. Perhaps there is a similar trade-off in animations (that is, the more resources you use in smoothing animations, the more you have to give something up somewhere else).

Of course herky-jerky movement is only one way in which a combat animation can suck. Some animations depict movements and techniques that are just cringeworthy, especially to someone who might be familiar with the weapons or fighting styles depicted.

TSW is nothing short of brilliant. Best storytelling in an MMO ever, class-less* character progression, completely open advancement path w/o character levels (you level skills, and it's a rather rapid curve), good (if not great) combat system, and more. It's graphically breathtaking. They even just introduced a reticule targeting option (although you can stick with tab targeting if you want to, and I suspect most will). I followed the game's development for a long time, and have unquestionably found my CoH replacement.

It's not perfect. They're having a hard time with PvP faction balance (PvP causing balance problems in an MMO? Gee, really?), and like any new game it has its share of bugs. A lot of the early content arcs have annoying-as-hell solo-only instances in them, something the devs have admitted was a mistake and not used in more recent content releases. The combat animations are typical MMO herky-jerky rubbish.

Funcom is indeed having its problems financially. SW is doing reasonably well for what was always going to be a niche game, but I do worry about the company's health. Innovation in this market space is always a huge gamble.

* It should be pointed out, however, that despite the class-less character progression, TSW is still much more of a "holy trinity" game than CoH, especially in the most challenging situations. Not because it's build into the game directly, but because the tanker/healer/dps combination just tends to work versus dangerous enemies. The upside is that no character is locked into a role forever. Once you're a decent way into a character's development process, they have enough of a range of abilities and skills that they can put together a "deck" tailored to any mission and team.

Swimming a bit further back upstream, my intent with bringing that sort of culturally-centered insult into the discussion was to point out that an attempt to be deliberately insulting to Mr. Kim could take into account cultural context. Sure, one would want to do a great deal more research into it that a cursory perusal of some US sites about doing business in Korea and some old threads on Titan...but since I made it clear I'd never contemplate such a thing anyway, that's irrelevant. The point was that such an attempt to insult should consider the cultural context of the intended recipient of the insult (like showing two fingers to an Englishman instead of flipping him the bird...)

What I don't buy here is that to make such an insult is somehow intrinsically racist. It's not a denigration of the target's culture, it's an incorporation of elements of that culture into the insult. Huge difference. I can't speak for GG's actual view on Korean culture or racial Asians (again, big difference between the two). I can however speak for my own...and state unequivocally that no racism was remotely intended in the post that seems to have started this.

The follow-up care-o-meter post to IBtT? Posted because it reflects how I feel about that poster. Again, not racist...since I had no idea he/she is Korean until I read it in this thread, a few minutes ago. And I still don't care...

I made it abundantly clear in the first paragraph of my reply that I wouldn't do any such thing to Kim anyway. What I don't care about is IBtT's take on it. Happy to clear that up.

I have to disagree...and I'm definitely an "if I'm logged on, I'm in-character" roleplayer. As I go into a bit more in a post in the "where CoH went wrong" thread, several things about the combat in this game ended up encouraging a frantic, steamroller style of combat. Even the roleplayers I pretty much always teamed with fell victim to this, too. For the sort of RP'er who tended to just hang out in social hubs, no big deal, but for "RP on the fly" types like me (and you, it seems), stopping to type out some dialogue or a pose meant being at least one combat behind, scrambling frantically to catch up. Tab targeting may not have been a contributor to that (although I think that's open to argument), but it sure didn't prevent it.

As a contrast, there was usually plenty of time for on-the-fly RP in Fallen Earth (which was my Holy Grail: an MMO with reticule targeting combat). This was in no small part because the combat was simply more dangerous than it is in CoH. Unless you were cherrypicking in a lower-level zone or on a full-size, very good team, steamrolling just didn't happen. Because actual patient tactics like taking cover and breaking line-of-sight work with real targeting, there was often even time to get a few quips and comments in in PvP. Try that in a tab targeting game!

A few things:

First, it's tab-to-target, and any such combat system will always be second tier at best in my reckoning. I much prefer reticule targeting, but have always been willing to tolerate tab-to-target in MMOs in order to get all of that genre's advantages. But reticule targeting is possible in MMOs, so my ideal MMO combat system will incorporate it.

Second, AoE attacks became overpowered (particularly after the Incarnate system introduced Judgement), with the effect of making group combat fast but not very challenging. Sprint frantically from one spawn to the next, crush them with one salvo of overpowered AoEs,spike the reeling boss with single-target alphas...rinse, repeat. Yawn.

Third: rooting. I realize that's a basic engine issue, but it's one that impinged on the combat system in a major way. After playing multiple games without it, it's really hard to go back.

Button proliferation got a bit silly, too...but I don't really mind all that much. Being able to precisely configure the UI makes it tolerable (especially since even complex characters only use a portion of their abilities in pitched combat.

I don't hate it, mind...it's just not one of the things I love about the game.

True, and it's just another element that pushed the "steamroller" playstyle to the fore. That can be fun...but for people who enjoy more challenging play (that you can't just blow through with minimal risk) and the opportunity to get in a bit of RP during missions, the pace of the game had become an annoyance.

Don't get me wrong: I love fast, edge-of-my-seat, frantic combat. But if that was all I wanted in a game, I probably wouldn't be playing an MMO at all. It and certainly wouldn't be CoH, whose combat system is, to be blunt, nothing special. Multiplayer shooters do that whole frantic combat thing a lot better.

This shift toward the "mad rush through combat" had actually brought me close to the point of leaving the game, or at least finding different people to play with, despite the many good friends I have here. . The game was becoming less RP-friendly (for those of us who don't restrict our RP to hanging out in Pocket D, etc...)

Me, too...as previously indicated in my first response in this thread. I loved Stalkers from the start...and they grew to be the only real rival to Defenders for the (dubious) honor of being my favorite AT.