You did NOT just say that? Did you?

baron_inferno · 04-13-2011 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eva Destruction

Buffing random people while you're still LFT in broadcast isn't pre-buffing. It's being a pest.

Take note that I did say your *teammates* and not random people. In fact, I did specifically say that buffing random people for no reason *can* be considered to be griefing. In anycase, sometimes just before a trial run is started (such as people are waiting for queuing window to pop up), people do start casting buffs on their teammates. SB, Cold Shield, etc. This is especially true for Lambda trial because there is no cut scene at the beginning and people tend to start killing as soon as enough people load in.

FloatingFatMan · 04-13-2011 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron_inferno

Let's also look at this from a probability point of view.

A. Asking 20-40 people on the dance floor to turn off their toggle powers.
B. Getting your group of folks to move 100 feet to an area away from the dance floor.

I personally think option B would win out every time.

B works fine, right up until the buggers follow you.

And some of them DO.

@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

baron_inferno · 04-13-2011 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan

B works fine, right up until the buggers follow you.

And some of them DO.

Then you would very much have a reason to complain and petition if they don't stop. I know I have petitioned some Thermal jerk at the BM when they kept spamming PBAoE heals and putting Shields on everyone. I never doubted that griefers do exist or claimed that you don't have a right to petition them. I'm just saying to universally ask everyone to turn off their toggles is somewhat unreasonable, especially when there are other plausible options available to you as I have mentioned above. That's all I'm saying.

FloatingFatMan · 04-13-2011 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron_inferno

Then you would very much have a reason to complain and petition if they don't stop. I know I have petitioned some Thermal jerk at the BM when they kept spamming PBAoE heals and putting Shields on everyone. I never doubted that griefers do exist or claimed that you don't have a right to petition them. I'm just saying to universally ask everyone to turn off their toggles is somewhat unreasonable, especially when there are other plausible options available to you as I have mentioned above. That's all I'm saying.

Oh, I probably wouldn't petition immediately if people ignored a polite request to cut out the spamming... Not unless they got arsy..

@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

M_I_Abrahms · 04-13-2011 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jophiel

Blanket power suppression in Pocket D would be kind of amusing.

"Yay! No more watching jerks with fire auras.... Hey! What happened to my WALK??"

Bit late for this response, but Walk actually does work in Power Suppressed areas. Unless you're suggesting a new version in which it doesn't.

The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.

Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?

A: You crash into another one.

Lucky666 · 04-13-2011 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project

People don't get asked to leave unless they are acting like a D-bags in the first place. What you casually dismiss as whining only happens when D-baggery occurs. RPers don't "stand at the door" screening people to see if they are going to RP or not. You can log in and as long as you behave you'll be left alone. You don't have to RP with anyone.

Ok first this was said

Quote:

Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan

The simple answer there is: "You're on the designated RP server, in a designated RP area. Go away."

To which I replied

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky666

The simple answer there is "make me".

To which was responded as such

Quote:

Originally Posted by CactusBrawler

The problem is in other MMO's the reply can be then

"Okay"

Petition filed, enjoy your temp or increased ban time.

Sadly not the case here.

No one any where in there was talking about power spamming or greifing or any of the sort it was about rpers wanting other people to leave "their" zone. It aint their zone and they have no right to ask me to leave simply cause .

Chase_Arcanum · 04-13-2011 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky666

It aint their zone and they have no right to ask me to leave simply cause .

They have the right to ask. You have the right to decline.

How that request and response is delivered is what determines which party is making an *** of itself (often its both)... and sometimes its unintentional.

SCENARIO: A group of roleplayers wants to have a social gathering in the Tiki lounge. They can't stop people from popping in via the VIP pass. A player drops in, sees people milling about, doesn't know what they're doing, and starts hopping over and dancing on the table in front of them.

A Roleplayer may say: "Go away. This is a private gathering."
The Roleplayer feels like he said: "I'm sorry, we're trying to have a private gathering, and the tone of the event really doesn't fit well with people dancing on the table in front of us. Could you take it elsewhere?"
The Intruder feels like he's been told: "Get lost, *******. You're not wanted."
So he replies: "I have every right to be here, too, y'know."
He feels like he's said: "Look, I used the power to get here. I paid for access to this area, and I didn't have any reason to expect that I wasn't wanted here. Why are you being so damn rude? You could have asked nicely."
The roleplayer, having experienced this many times before, blends all the previous fights into this statement and hears, "There's no designated RP server or RP zones. I'm allowed to be anywhere you are, and I'm going to prove it by GOING anywhere you go and interfering with ANYTHING you try to do. You'll just have to figure out how to have your somber little gathering with me making 'humping" emotes behind you the whole time."
Things go downhill quickly from there.
Eventually, both will go back to their own subgroups, ranting about the idiots they just encountered... and giving such divergent accounts of what happened that most people would never even believe they could be talking about the same encounter.
Next week: lather. rinse. repeat.
(Occasionally throw in a REAL griefer or a REAL arrogant roleplayer to add enough truth to make the bias especially difficult to break.)

Electric-Knight · 04-13-2011 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum

They have the right to ask. You have the right to decline.

How that request and response is delivered is what determines which party is making an *** of itself (often its both)... and sometimes its unintentional.

SCENARIO: A group of roleplayers wants to have a social gathering in the Tiki lounge. They can't stop people from popping in via the VIP pass. A player drops in, sees people milling about, doesn't know what they're doing, and starts hopping over and dancing on the table in front of them.

A Roleplayer may say: "Go away. This is a private gathering."
The Roleplayer feels like he said: "I'm sorry, we're trying to have a private gathering, and the tone of the event really doesn't fit well with people dancing on the table in front of us. Could you take it elsewhere?"
The Intruder feels like he's been told: "Get lost, *******. You're not wanted."
So he replies: "I have every right to be here, too, y'know."
He feels like he's said: "Look, I used the power to get here. I paid for access to this area, and I didn't have any reason to expect that I wasn't wanted here. Why are you being so damn rude? You could have asked nicely."
The roleplayer, having experienced this many times before, blends all the previous fights into this statement and hears, "There's no designated RP server or RP zones. I'm allowed to be anywhere you are, and I'm going to prove it by GOING anywhere you go and interfering with ANYTHING you try to do. You'll just have to figure out how to have your somber little gathering with me making 'humping" emotes behind you the whole time."
Things go downhill quickly from there.
Eventually, both will go back to their own subgroups, ranting about the idiots they just encountered... and giving such divergent accounts of what happened that most people would never even believe they could be talking about the same encounter.
Next week: lather. rinse. repeat.
(Occasionally throw in a REAL griefer or a REAL arrogant roleplayer to add enough truth to make the bias especially difficult to break.)

Beautiful job capturing the message, the internal meanings, the unintended messages and the general outcome.

Just a quick note, and I am positive you know/believe this as well, is that the same exact thing can happen with the RPer starting it with a reasonable and polite request.
It works all ways you can spin it.

Hehe, really great post, Chase.

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

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Ardrea · 04-13-2011 02:58 PM

This came up in the Ustream broadcast today, and the two devs there seemed surprised that people were using the D as a trial jump-off; and said that the D was intended as a social gathering place. I wouldn't put too much into that; but there it is.

I think the underlying problem is they didn't realize there'd be so many pre-formed maximum size leagues going at the same time -- so many that there aren't enough coop zones for them all. It'll probably ease up in a week or two.

Until then, I think it would go a long way for us all to try to ask politely, respond politely, and accommodate reasonable requests when we can.

FloatingFatMan · 04-13-2011 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky666

No one any where in there was talking about power spamming or greifing or any of the sort it was about rpers wanting other people to leave "their" zone. It aint their zone and they have no right to ask me to leave simply cause .

Someone else struggling with what emotes are for, then.

@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Dr_Mechano · 04-13-2011 03:08 PM

Yeah I can see that.

They imagined everyone would use the LFG tool to do the raids, however pre-mades are pretty much the ONLY way I've seen trials run on Union from Day 1 of release, this is mainly due to the a lot smaller server numbers compared to Virtue or Freedom.

The advantage the smaller server numbers also afford Union was that you got the same faces in the premades again and again, often for 3 or 4 BAF runs in a row. From that tactical discussion arose, from that Union being the first server to achieve the Master of B.A.F. badge and to run it consistently.

The LFG tool is pretty much pointless on Union because:

1) It doesn't put you into almost full groups who are missing 1 or 2 people, it only bumps up the numbers to a minimum and then doesn't seem to add more people beyond a certain point.

2) Union makes vast use of Global channels such as Sal's Badge hunters, Union Chat and a few others to organise things.

3) Even with the global channels down on initial release of Issue 20, everybody moved to Pocket D for the reasons that are expressed in this thread. It is easy to get to and a co-op zone which made it the natural place to launch raids from and completely ignored the LFG tool.

4) The Rikti Warzone, while it does get some use, doesn't see as much as Pocket D.

Atleast on Union, there might as well not BE an LFG style option, it's premades or like the other night where we were going for an 8 man Lambda run, it'll add 1 extra person and that was it.

HelinCarnate · 04-13-2011 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan

^ If someone asks you nicely to stop causing them problems, and you refuse and carry on regardless, that's the moment you become a griefer; knowingly and intentionally causing other players problems by continuing your actions after being asked nicely to stop.

Your rights end at the tip of my nose.

Your requests to have people turn off their powers are causing me some emotional problems. Would you mind not doing that anymore please?

So since I asked nice, if you continue, you are a griefer. Great logic huh?

Ardrea · 04-13-2011 04:37 PM

I think this is too wide a definition of griefing. If someone's trying to nudge me off a ledge, or emote-dancing their MM-pets around me and I ask them politely to stop, and they answer back snarkily with a refusal, then I'd say griefing. If they're in some actually legitimate game activity, like just running a toggle while they wait for a mission to start, that's not griefing -- it's missing the deliberate intent to grief. I may not like it, and it might be nice of them to accommodate my wish if I ask them nicely, but it's not griefing if they refuse.

tanstaafl · 04-13-2011 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano

Yeah I can see that.

They imagined everyone would use the LFG tool to do the raids, however pre-mades are pretty much the ONLY way I've seen trials run on Union from Day 1 of release, this is mainly due to the a lot smaller server numbers compared to Virtue or Freedom.

I think many more trials are done preformed everywhere. The way that the LFG tool only works for the min. number runs counter to it being useful.

I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.

Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.

So sad to be ending ):

Golden Girl · 04-13-2011 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane

We've got that. It's called the RWZ.

But apparently people launching trials don't like it because it's full of people launching trials.

And that annoys them so much that they go to the Pocket D to launch trials because there's no one there launching trials, and are then surprised that people are annoyed at them for launching trials there.

I think it's more to do with the RWZ hosting 3 high level TFs, one open zone raid, and the only co-op AE building in the game - the zone caps at 50, so it doesn't take too much activity to start forcing extra instances, which can make forming teams a bit harder.
Pocket D is quiet, and is great for forming Leagues, as the chat there is all focused on them, rather than getting mixed into the TF, AE and mothership recruiting messages.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

Ironik · 04-13-2011 06:10 PM

"reduculous"

You did not just say that, did you? Is your spellchecker from Termite Terrace?

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

Rabid_M · 04-13-2011 06:53 PM

Why not RP in the Midnighters' Club? Access has to be earned, and for Villains it's something they can't earn on their own until level 30 or later.

Anyway...

I think a zone to launch trials from is a great idea, and it needs to be put in ASAP. It doesn't have to be fancy, but it DOES need at least as much stuff as what Pocket D has, including the easy teleporter access.

I shall warn you, though, that if I'm waiting there for a trial to start, and my friends are there, I -WILL- RP there with them!

"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me

@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn

Forbin_Project · 04-13-2011 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum

(Occasionally throw in a REAL griefer or a REAL arrogant roleplayer to add enough truth to make the bias especially difficult to break.)

This is so true. Just a few days ago I was passing thru the D when I observed a jerk running all over the place from one group of players to the next where he'd jump up and down in the middle of them while casting ice shields on them, then he was off to the next group.

Wicked_Wendy · 04-14-2011 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

This attitude is greatly disappointing, as it amounts to "I'm more important than you because you're playing the game wrong, so I have the right to ruin your fun however I like." And we used to have such a friendly community.

Sam? Let me get this straight you are saying MY attitude is wrong? I'm not the one that went onto a global chat channel and insisted that potentially dozens, if not more, of players with just as much right to be in Pocket D as anyone else and basically demanded that we go away because we were disturbing him. And believe me mine was not the only negative comment this guy got and at least mine didn't have any profanity in it.

I have nothing against Role Play.. if I did the last place I'd have every character I own is on Virtue. COH is a MMO RPG game and I completely understand that RPG means ROLE PLAY GAME. But its also a GAME and for every one of those PRers in Pocket D there are probably 20 players out there right now looking for somewhere to put together a league so they can open up their new powers.

Now you talk about the community being unfriendly? I haven't seen it. At times there have been as many as 4 or 5 RWZ and it never seems to fail that a league will get almost everyone in zone and the message comes across .. "I can't get in the zone is full!" I have seen entire leagues move from zone to zone to zone trying to find somplace where all 24 of the members can be in one spot so they can be assigned to teams. I have seen people ask politely "We have 1 member that can't enter the zone so we can start our BAF trial. Can someone please leave for a few moment? As soon as we organize we will be gone." And there has almost always been someone willing to pop out for a minute or two. That sounds pretty friendly and cooperative to me.

Every zone I mentioned in my first post is being used and used constantly right now for trials. I have seen 2 or 3 Midnighter Clubs, two Cimeroras, as I mentioned earlier as many as 4-5 RWZs, I have seen posts and joined leagues forming in Studio 55 (YES we are using Praeteoria) and there was even a league over the weekend that a buddy of mine was on that started in the Arena in Galaxy City (must have found 24 Heroes, Vigilantes and Rogues since no villain could possibly get there).

The fact of the matter is the most I have seen to date when a league formed there is two Pocket Ds.. so the majority of the players are going other places to form up. What ticked me off and everyone on Virtue TF 2010 that day was one guy in Pocket D that apparently could care less about new content, new powers, and new ways to play the game had the nerve to come on and tell US to stay out of HIS zone. He got a lot of negative feed back over it from everyone including me. But there are still more leagues forming in other zones than in his precious RP haven. IF this community was truly unfriendly and down right nasty.. every single leader forming a league that day would have purposely headed to Pocket D JUST to make that guys day worse. I spent the next two hours running BAFs in Cimerora and between runs saw leagues starting up in the RWZ, Midnighter Club etc, ect. No one went out of there way to RUIN anything for anyone. IF anyone had a bad attitude it was that guy who seems to think nothing and no one is more important than he is and we should all go away and leave him and his friends alone.

Someone else mentioned it in an earler post.. In December and again in February when the events are running I have seen as many as 4 or 5 Pocket Ds and half of them full. Where was this guy then? Had to be a LOT more lag in December than there is now. Pocket D is not a designated ROLE PLAY area the fact of the matter is there is no such area designated on any map in ANY zone. There are stores (bartenders) where players can buy inspirations, there is a hopsital so players can rez in zone during events and there is a trainer so they can level up. All of those things are tools used by players running missions not standing around chatting to one another at the bar. Another poster here brought up a good point. Now I know there have been a few comic book super heroes that were also known to drink but exactly when did being a super hero entail getting up, throwing on the old super hero outfit and heading to the bar to stand around talking about yourself and hitting on hot babes? That's not being a hero that being a lounge lizard and / or an alcoholic. Anytime stuff like this comes up there are always people that say no one can tell you how to PLAY the game. I saw that comment as well and wasn't sure if it was directed at me or not. Funny thing is I NEVER said once this guy couldn't or shouldn't RP.. The comment he made in globals was that ALL OF US shouldn't come to a specific ZONE to play the game. POCKET D is COOP so Heroes, Villains, Rogues and Vigilantes can all meet and form leagues... The trials are Coop so while there are are other places as well.. people are going to use Pocket D. If all he needs is a spot wher he and his friends can gather and chat why can't THEY move to say Perez Park? Practically no one goes there if they don't have to and parts of it are very pretty.. OH I forgot it doesn't have a disco ball and a bar!

�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

NobleFox · 04-14-2011 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baron_inferno

Seriously, if your machine isn't capable of handling the graphical burden, set all options to minimum and turn off ultra mode. My computer isn't top of the line (2 years old) and it can handle 30-40 people standing around in Pocket D with their toggles on just fine. This isn't a problem with people refusing to turn off their toggles.

So what you're saying is "I don't feel like writing a macro to turn all the powers on or click a few times. My (incredibly minor) inconvenience trumps all these lowlifes who can't afford better computers! So what if I'm ruining it for dozens of folks at a time, it's far better than you selfish pricks expecting me to go through all the effort of clicking my mouse. you people sure are selfish pricks!"

NobleFox · 04-14-2011 12:29 AM

And let us make this very clear. I have a nice 6 core system running dual Radeon 5750's. I am not one of the people who have these problems. However, there are a lot of folks, I can off the top of my head think of 23 on Virtue, in the D socializing and only running small missions because they are on single core processors with GeForce 6800-era cards, or they're the folks with Intel integrated graphics on their laptops. They try their absolute best to find as much fun as they can with what little they can manage. When 10 people drop out of a TF and don't drop their toggles, these people slow to a crawl, and their computer components start heating up FAST trying to render all of what's going on... even though they may well exceed the game's "minimum" and have their graphics all the way down to "lookit all the talking blurs!" If they can't get out of the zone fast enough.. or if you won't turn your powers off, these people are quickly headed for a blue screen.

All they were doing was sitting around using the D as exactly what the Devs have repeatedly explicitly stated it was for: it's a social zone. There are dozens of places people can gather to start high-end content, there is only one place in the entire game set aside for socializing. These people aren't going to the RWZ and whining, they're making due with what they have and trying to play the game. You are, however, going to the only previously safe zone they had, and taking that away from them. Intentionally or not, you are harming the people who explicitly did all they could to get out of your way, yet still have a reasonable chance to meet new people.

From their point of view, now that's even been taken from them. there's nothing left but for them to ask reasonably for you to turn your powers off. And I've seen several of you accuse the RPr's of having the special little flower attitude? No.. it's.. it's really not them at fault. It's you. You're willing to let other persons lag, heat up their components, and eventually crash just because you're too lazy to spend 3 minutes writing a "powers on" macro, or 10 seconds once you get into the zone activating them.

And pets? you have no reason to be standing around LFT while buffing your pets. You're going to have to rebuff them when you get in anyway.

Wicked_Wendy · 04-14-2011 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan

Why does THAT matter? All that matters is that they ARE suffering problems due to all the power spamming, and then getting ridiculed and told to shut up when they politely ask people to stop doing that.

Did you read the quote I started all this with at all?

Quote:

Chat Channel]Xxxxxxxxx: i know this may be a bit <@*&$@#!>, but again, would like to ask if for the future pocket D would not be used for Trials, place is already laggy enough without people spamming powers. Thank you

There is no mention of can you all please just turn off your powers while you are in the D. THANK YOU He ASKS that no one come and form a league in Pocket D period. He goes on to mention lag and people spamming powers but his original request is DON'T COME HERE!

The Devs cant create duplicate RWZs fast enough to keep up with the demand but a huge zone with almost everything available in the RWZ is supposed to be ignored so 20-30 people can stand around a bar and pretend to drink while they make up stories about their ficticious lives?

Now first of all I was under the impression Pocket D suppressed most powers anyway. Secondly I have friends that are CAPE RADIO DJS so I have been there when there is actual GOOD music to tune into while you socialize. And then there is third..

I am currently running my Mastermind through the trials and I always rez my minons before we head in so I am ready for action when we arrive. Not so much an issue on the BAF since you get stuck watching the Cut scene before getting to even enter the door to the facility but on a Lambda you arrive on the steet and within a few yards you are engaged in battle. Are you telling me I shouldn't rez my pets because it adds to the lag? Then explain why its okay for an MM to rez them and then type in /petsay_all <em dance>. I can't prepare for combat but an MM that just wants to hang out and party can invite all his minons to share a beer with him/her? I don't think so.

Yeah I know people have a way of going crazy with auras... It drives me nuts too even when that start casting them to TRY and help as you get ready to enter a mission. "Gee that was nice but we are still recruiting members. That buff you just hit me with will probably just be wearing off as we hit the first mobs inside! brilliant planning!" Now on the other hand hitting me with buffs after we are ready to go so I arrive in zone ready to fight makes perfect sense and if we "BUFF UP" and then teleport to the Lambda Sector two minutes later how is that hurting anyone? Your role play experience was ruined by a two minute spike in lag?

The same day this individual made his "request" there were a couple of people RPing in one of the RWZs. I noticed the comments as I was leaving to head to another RWZ because out league, once again, couldn't all get into the one we started forming in. Now I have no clue if these two people were just RPing while they waited for their league to start up or of they were just hnaging out in the Rwz Role Playing. the point is no one went to a global channel and said.. "It may be crappy to ask, but we are having huge issues here in the RWZ trying to form league. In the future can you role players please stay out. Your taking up spots we need to get out people in."

This thread may go on for days and no one is ever going to admit they are right or wrong but let me just sum it all up for you Floating.. Until YOU or the joker that posted that comment in globals start paying my subsciption fees every month you have no right to tell me where I can do anything in game. 24 players showing up in Pocket D to form a league and then poofing off to the BAF is in no way a violation of the TOS and despite what you think is in no way grieving. So if you think any of you comments here are going to stop people form going there.. You are going to be a very disappointed man!

�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

Fanservice · 04-14-2011 02:11 AM

Let's face it, you can't get people to behave around roleplayers if they don't want too. The fact people feel so strongly about thier right to run thier toggles because it'd take a harrowing 30 seconds to turn them on (Though really? My Willpower is fairly toggle heavy and it barely takes ten) shows how much of an uphill battle that'd be.

So hey. Why don't the Roleplayers move to Studio 55?

Seems like it'd be the best solution for everyone. No trials, still a bar, still accessable at a low level and by both sides and barely anyone to be a pain in the *** there.

CactusBrawler · 04-14-2011 02:53 AM

Wow the OP sure is butthurt.

Why they so mad?

Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

FloatingFatMan · 04-14-2011 05:19 AM

Quote: