I have run 10 trials today, I never want to run them again. Am I alone?
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-04-10 16:36 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Its definately slowing down Naz. I couldn't find a Lambda run last night after a couple of hours of looking. Tons of BAFs though.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
So the four near-full RWZ's with people queuing up for the trials last night don't matter?
Or even the people queuing up in the D? The trials are NOT petering out on Virtue. |
Oh and Fridgid: I know that disobeying my league leader would get me more shards (ie I can go after the most XP generating objectives), but Not listening to your league leader happens to piss people off.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
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What kind of freaky League set up are you involved in? |
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
tanker support team
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I've never run a Trial with any designated support teams - that's just over-complicating things.
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I had no problem getting a Lambda last night on Virtue. In fact, we were competing with another Lambda recruiting in RWZ-X at the same time.
Have you tried starting one yourself?
I like the incarnate powers (excluding the Lore LOL) and it was fun to beat the trial for first time. However, I don't dig grinding the same two trials over and over again.
I just hope they don't introduce dozen new incarnate merits down the line, like incarnate yarns and bottle caps.
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You're right, of course. If most people are boneheaded enough to run through 10 trials a day while hating it, they're not going to want to see that content again once they're done. You sure won't find ten a day running.|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Everyone who is offering Shard/Thread conversion as a viable method for progress are as disingenuous as the devs.
Its not offered as a viable option, but as a bullet point: Look there is another way! Even though that other way is a massively punative monument to stupidity! And for the people telling me: Take your time: Well the Trials are already petering out on virtue. Its getting REALLy hard to get into a lambda run after a week as people have stopped playing it. I haven't really STARTED on my Freedom toon and I am massively worried. So If I don't man up and put up with repeating these two missions NOW while the rest of the playerbase is Putting up with it, its less and less likely I will ever get slots done. Things will be even worse come the next slots because we all know they will be using INCARNATE SOULS or something, that will have an even more punative conversion method, and no one will be running the "old" trials any longer. Most people I know are getting one toon kitted out and then they stop logging in. Its probably what I will do once I finish my mains on Virtue and Freedom. |
They may someday be as scarce as other content that's several issues old... like Mothership raids (run several nights a week on my favorite mid-population server) or the ITF.... or... even the occasional Hamidon. Heck, once people KNOW the mechanics of these trials (many STILL fowl up the simplest parts Lambda) AND have their 3 level shifts, you won't even need a full team to take them down.
Yes, people will get their one ultra-rare unlocked and then slow down, but they'll always have the (lesser) reward of unlocking other branches, in case they ever need more flexibility in the build. It won't be the COMPELLING urge that the first one may be, but it will encourage people to participate... casually... when the pain of overexposure has subsided. Heck, the devs have all but said that astral and Empyrian (sp) will be used in future rewards, so stockpiling these won't be for naught.
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I sympathize. The traditional rejoinder to this is "Just do what you did before there was an endgame: roll an alt and enjoy!" |
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
But unless I am doing these trials I am not making any effective progress on my characters.
If I am not making any progress why log in? |
My problem is that there are no new powerset combos that I find compelling, so I have no interest in rolling an alt. I find myself wanting only to advance a few of my 50s. Yet the resultant grind of trying to advance multiple 50s through the same 2 Trials is a strong disincentive.
I'm trusting that over time as they release more Incarnate content it will not feel as grindy.
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Everyone who is offering Shard/Thread conversion as a viable method for progress are as disingenuous as the devs.
Its not offered as a viable option, but as a bullet point: Look there is another way! Even though that other way is a massively punative monument to stupidity! And for the people telling me: Take your time: Well the Trials are already petering out on virtue. Its getting REALLy hard to get into a lambda run after a week as people have stopped playing it. I haven't really STARTED on my Freedom toon and I am massively worried. So If I don't man up and put up with repeating these two missions NOW while the rest of the playerbase is Putting up with it, its less and less likely I will ever get slots done. Things will be even worse come the next slots because we all know they will be using INCARNATE SOULS or something, that will have an even more punative conversion method, and no one will be running the "old" trials any longer. Most people I know are getting one toon kitted out and then they stop logging in. Its probably what I will do once I finish my mains on Virtue and Freedom. |
I got on one at 7:45am EST today. I don't think people are going to stop running these any time soon.
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What Lambda runs were you doing? The most I've ever gotten from a Lambda was like 30% I think.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Lambda gives about 50% IXP per run - I unlocked Interface after 2 runs.
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BAF, for me, is about 15% per run (at least for Lore)
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I'm guessing that the people forming these things already have all their slots unlocked and don't care how much iXP everybody else gets, so they're splitting up teams with no attempt to balance them out so that everyone gets a fair share of iXP.|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
I have never been on a team that failed the BAF or Lamda. On the two Lambda runs I have done on Freedom with my trapper we killed everything, but I was on the tanker support team so I wasn't directly involved with ADDs. Got 10%.
On the many BAFs I have done on my huntsman I have been on the "Siege" team practically every time, and usually come out with 15% progress. |
Also, the more people there are in your league, the less iXP you'll get on the BaF. Unlike Lambda, the Warworks in the initial phase just disappear when you have killed 40, so you can't keep killing. And then you get a bunch of stormies and bubblers whatnot throwing the reinforcements all over the place, so they can't be killed effeciently for more iXP. And prisoners give little iXP. It would help if trial completion or the AVs gave a nice chunk of iXP, but they don't.
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I can accept having the trials in the game. However, BAF is what people are running. Yes, you can find a Lambda, but I wait a lot for a BAF anyway. I don't want to log in to sit around and wait to form a raid. I can get that fun from another company that drives me crazy.
I want to log in and be a superhero. Up until I20 I could do that.
There is practically one outlet to advance your character now. BAF over and over. Sure, take days to do it. I understand you can do that, but also realize that you're still doing that one stupid outlet over and over. Open up things to the Taskforces that exist at least. Beyond the 10-5 or 10-10 shard to thread conversion.
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I think the concern is that they're seeing Incarnates as ADVANCEMENT, and therefore, they're feeling locked out of advancement. PvP is its own entity. Noncrafters can buy SO's. If you want to be at the 'top of the game,' you gotta do the incarnates.|
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
But this is a special case because it's you who is feeling left out this issue, right?
Not like the people who didn't want to PvP? Or the people who didn't want to craft? Or the people who had no interest in playing another alt to try Kheldians or Soldiers of Arachnos? It's disconcerting to me that so many long time forum posters don't realize how this game and its issues work yet. |
If they'd made ALL the incarnate powers be exclusively used ONLY in incarnate content, they wouldn't have much of a complaint, but because the incarnate powers affects their normal PvE game to some degree, those that don't like it feel slighted.
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Im aware that the Trials are not for everyone and I prefer TF's as well. I'm all for TF's getting more love now, when dealing with the incarnate stuff.
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Originally Posted by Torrynt
Open up things to the Taskforces that exist at least. Beyond the 10-5 or 10-10 shard to thread conversion.
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Judgment is in my oppinion the one thing that makes people feel slighted the most. Not me so much, but it does take away from the "specialness" of the AOE crowd. It does not replace them, but Im beginning to think most of the Powers offered by the incarnate system just remove uniqueness from other AT's.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
I think the concern is that they're seeing Incarnates as ADVANCEMENT, and therefore, they're feeling locked out of advancement. PvP is its own entity. Noncrafters can buy SO's. If you want to be at the 'top of the game,' you gotta do the incarnates.
If they'd made ALL the incarnate powers be exclusively used ONLY in incarnate content, they wouldn't have much of a complaint, but because the incarnate powers affects their normal PvE game to some degree, those that don't like it feel slighted. |
Or so I have noticed. The general idea I think is to just have everyone be able to mimic everyone elses stuff, or their cool toys so that when interviewed the devs can say that the incarnate trials means "Not having to wait for a balanced team as all AT combinations can participate"
Thats because everyone can do everyones bag of tricks now.
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See the thing I quarrel with in that view is that Inventions were and probably still are substantially more important to being on "top of the game." At rare Destiny and Lore and Uncommon Interface and Judgment, I still very much feel that my Invention build is more important. Alpha (which is not gated by the trials in any way) is really the only significant advancement IMO in the PvE field.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
I think the concern is that they're seeing Incarnates as ADVANCEMENT, and therefore, they're feeling locked out of advancement. PvP is its own entity. Noncrafters can buy SO's. If you want to be at the 'top of the game,' you gotta do the incarnates.
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Alpha provides the global level shift. That's a HUGE benefit notwithstanding the HUGE benefit from the enhancement Alpha provides. Alpha is gated by the WST, but that's so mild a gate as to be inconsequential in my opinion. Hard-core soloers need to understand that the entire game will not revolve around that playstyle. This is a MMORPG, and every MMORPG on the market rewards teaming.
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| If they'd made ALL the incarnate powers be exclusively used ONLY in incarnate content, they wouldn't have much of a complaint, but because the incarnate powers affects their normal PvE game to some degree, those that don't like it feel slighted. |
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Well this "fool" gets to run any mission in the game while progressing, where the "wise" iTrialer is restricted to just 2.
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Solo and conversion method of the Incarnate system is a fools choice.
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I've begin to really wonder about how iXP is allocated. My experiences seem fairly similar to yours. 26% is the best I've gotten from Lambda. Around 20% is more likely. I've gotten less than 10% from a successful BAF run. At that rate it takes a lot of runs to unlock all the new slots.|
Originally Posted by Clouded
Even on lambda when we cleared the ENTIRE streets, my % was only about 26%. Perhaps it has something to do with me playing a support type AT (dark/sonic def) and I'm not supplying enough DPS?
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I know that I only get credit for kills from members of my team, and not others in the league. Beyond that I don't know what accounts for the big difference between what some are reporting getting per run. I wonder if it's mostly based around individual contribution. If so, that might explain why my support toons, which I've mostly been running so far, make such slow gains. I try to attack everything in sight and apply as much damage as possible, but it's still slow going.
There is one change I've made that's helped on the BAF. Many league leaders seem to want to put members of a single team on ambush duty, which means other teams miss out completely on a lot of iXP. In those cases I tend to just ignore instructions and go after the ambushes. It's not that I don't want to be a good team player, but if the league leader is not willing to share the wealth due to ignorance or whatever reason, I gotta do what I gotta. ;P
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The one who had already run every mission in the game prior to I19? Just sayin'.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
Well this "fool" gets to run any mission in the game while progressing, where the "wise" iTrialer is restricted to just 2.
Who is the real fool? |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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You've stated that you have a particularly idiosyncratic way of playing this game, and yet you've campaigned to remove options for others? That's is either disingenuous or particularly selfish. Arguing that PVP or trials needs to be revamped or more inclusive is one thing, but by petitioning for a portion of the game for a reason that has nothing to do with mechanical brokenness is amazingly short sighted in a multiplayer game.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I have argued against the existence of PvP in the game just as I have argued against the existence of raids. I have argued against the existence of loot in the game in much the same way. You know I have, because you were there, so please don't be a hypocrite by asking me to provide proof of events you took part in.
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I don't think ANYONE is arguing that there shouldn't be a better solo/small team incarnate progression option. I certainly haven't seen anyone claim that, and I hope they add one. I really do. But when Pool C and D recipes first came out there was no way to generate them except from trials and task forces. Now they've added a more reliable solo/small team way of obtaining them with reward merits, and even hero merits.
The only thing I can advise is patience and the devs will likely add another way of incarnate progression. THey haven't said anything about it, but for the past 1 or 2 years the Devs have been absolutely amazing at giving the player base what they want. Obviously that hasn't brought them any credit whatsoever. But petitioning that an entire portion of the game that others so obviously enjoy (or even if they don't enjoy it like PvP) is an amazingly selfish thing to do in a game that isn't a single player game.
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test_rat, still sounds like you have a pretty crappy set of teams. Teams should be balanced as best as possible to spread everything around. If your league leader isn't massaging the teams, find a different league. What should be on a team is variable, but being in a league where you have all tanks and defenders on one team is going to blow for that one team. That is the fault of the league leader.
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10 in a row isn't bad at all for me. The problem I have with the trials is the downtime between the trials when the revolving door starts since someone has to switch, or they drop without saying goodbye, leaving everyone to wonder if they just DC'd or they have left.
Last night we had 1 person DC right before starting the trial so we all quit the queue which screwed up the system (it thought a league was in progress), so we had to reform about 3 times (took over 40 minutes to fix it with another DC).
Another issue with doing many in a row is the grind of having to explain yourself over and over again to the people who haven't read anything about it (no instructions on the box :P), people who refuse to listen and people who you wouldn't want to team with regularly anyhow.
If people knew what to do and when to do it without needing all sorts of prompting, I would be much happier. Hard to accomplish when you 'need' 24 people though.
Other than that it is fine for me, other than the not knowing how the rewards tables really work.
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Come now, people, I make these posts for a reason. Read them carefully. I chose my wording intentionally, after all.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
You've stated that you have a particularly idiosyncratic way of playing this game, and yet you've campaigned to remove options for others? That's is either disingenuous or particularly selfish. Arguing that PVP or trials needs to be revamped or more inclusive is one thing, but by petitioning for a portion of the game for a reason that has nothing to do with mechanical brokenness is amazingly short sighted in a multiplayer game.
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I've argued "against the existence of" PvP and loot, which is to say at a time before they existed. I'm not dumb enough to think that anything I say could yank PvP out of the game, sorry as it may be these days, and I didn't think so back in 2005. However, with PvP, I did end up getting what I wanted - PvP far away from those who didn't like it, where I don't have to see it or participate in it unless I chose to do so intentionally, and with the only reason being that I want to PvP. Which I have, believe it or not. Anti-Catwhoorg (I could never spell his name...) hosted PvP events that I got invited to, after all. Didn't do much to change my mind on the matter.
Thus, when people suggested end game, I was starkly against it, because I knew what it would mean for the game, and in hindsight, I was right. Now, people like Friggin Taser like to use the "So you're saying something you're not actually saying, right?" approach to argument composition, but I never actually argued for the REMOVAL of the Incarnate system, for the demise of the game or any of the hogwash they put in my mouth. I've merely argued for an alternate path to advancement which wasn't insultingly penalising, but apparently that makes me anti-social, so eh...
Suffice it to say that I'd be an idiot to argue for the removal of anything, as nothing in the history of the game has ever been removed. Not even the 5th Column. I will, however, keep arguing for additions to the game which expand path to acquisition.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The teams I get on never fail, and are often master runs.| test_rat, still sounds like you have a pretty crappy set of teams. Teams should be balanced as best as possible to spread everything around. If your league leader isn't massaging the teams, find a different league. What should be on a team is variable, but being in a league where you have all tanks and defenders on one team is going to blow for that one team. That is the fault of the league leader. |
The problem is that I wasn't here the previous week as I have a real life at times, and all the people I end up running with (whether established friends or PUGS) have thier slots unlocked already and just want the badges and empirian merits. I missed the glory days of 50% xp runs and its only been a week.
So much for the people telling me to wait and take my time because as more people unlock the slots iXP will be come less and less the focus of trial runs, and you will be seeing more and more people reporting they get less than 15%per run.
So again tonight when I get home from work, I will start some Doctor Who in netflix, and drag my mains through the Incarnate system (System lol Misison really) over and over till I get this done.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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Wait JUST a second. Are you saying that there is a way to make more threads from each iteration of the trial if, during 10 runs of a raid that seems boring and grindy to some, that if you take note of the patterns of activity, and seek to maximize the output of the trials in order to require less of them to achieve the stated goal (unlocking the slots)??|
Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
Clouded/Test_rat, you are on ****** teams then.
I pulled 51% on my very first BAF. It depends on what your team is, and if you have a leader who can communicate. The overwhelming majority of your iXp comes from killing adds in BAF, and clearing the outer perimeter in Lambda. Any mob left unkilled is less iXp for you. In BAF, cycle between killing Siege and Nightstar. It gives you 10 seconds of breathing room when one is down. Have part of your league be dedicated to killing the viki/9cu adds. If you want threads, have the League Leader split your 3 times up, top 2 of each team, dedicated to killing adds, while the bottom 6 dedicated to killing the AVs and cycling them. This will get you exp plenty quick. If you aren't killing the adds, you are going to get squat for iXp. You should be able to cycle the AVs two, maybe three times depending on the team. If you are extremely DPS heavy, with good agro management, you should be able to push your time all the way to 5 minutes or less, and still complete the trial no problem, having killed stupid amounts of adds. In Lambda, leave one of the portals open! IF you can handle the adds. But because Marauder is such a chimp, it should be reasonable to handle the adds from 1 portal and put him down as well. Even if you leave all the portals dead (probably a wise decision), if you didn't clear the outer perimeter before you entered the gate, you would have been missing several % of iXp. Always kill everything! Moreover, you don't have to do Lambda if you don't want to! Sure doing BAF means you get no physical iXp. However, you get 16 threads which you can just burn for iXp, components, and who knows what goodies. I have more fun doing BAF. I don't think I will be doing any more Lambdas, even though it will take me longer to get my slots. I just can't stand the middle phase of Lambda. edit: Just to be clear, nuking the adds in BAF is not as easy as it seems.... but if you picked Judgement up quick, and you have a lot of Judgement in your league, it makes managing the adds much much easier. |
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Yes there is, but the people who already have thier slots unlocked are not interested in running it that way for the newcomers.
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Originally Posted by galadiman
Wait JUST a second. Are you saying that there is a way to make more threads from each iteration of the trial if, during 10 runs of a raid that seems boring and grindy to some, that if you take note of the patterns of activity, and seek to maximize the output of the trials in order to require less of them to achieve the stated goal (unlocking the slots)??
UNPOSSIBLE. |
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
From here on I'm labeling them as Defeatist Forumite Propaganda.
I will be watching netflix while playing CoX, getting my two mains kitted up to T3 on all slots (Level shifts are not optional regardless of what people say on the forums).
After that, I dunno if i am going to end up like my friends and dropping off the face of the earth or sticking around between the next issue.
Frigid:
I have never been on a team that failed the BAF or Lamda. On the two Lambda runs I have done on Freedom with my trapper we killed everything, but I was on the tanker support team so I wasn't directly involved with ADDs. Got 10%.
On the many BAFs I have done on my huntsman I have been on the "Siege" team practically every time, and usually come out with 15% progress.
I think the fact that the Xp you get is based on your personal or particualar TEAMS Kills is what is making the difference in what people report. If your particular team is low DPS (support team around a tank) you end up getting screwed. Unfortunately this is Working as intended as far as I know.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!