City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Want a Notice of the Well solo? That'll be...

Adeon Hawkwood

By Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-02-10 19:03 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster View Post
So you want to be able to do what only the most high-end, well built characters can do, arguably something the devs never really even intended, but you don't want it to be any harder to get to that point that it was from going from 49-50.
I already solo AVs. Saying that I am being unreasonable because I want more power to do things I already do, but easier, is itself unreasonable. That's the point of gaining more power in a video game - to do things easier, or to be able to tackle harder things. Exactly what I'm expecting.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Just cause it needs to be said again.

People are worried about the 100 million when it takes 88 shards? W . . . T . . . F?

Seriously, get some perspective people.

As for me I like the numbers, even if they are MOST LIKELY NOT FINAL.
It only take 88 for the people who refuse to do a TF or raid ever. If you're willing to do even a Mothership Raid, you can earn a few shards + enough Vanguard Merits to buy Grai Matters. Even if you don't need that component, you can break it down into more shards. If you're on a server that raids Hami, that's almost a guaranteed 7-10 shards for a very limited group commitment.

Then of course, you can cut this whole thing out, by simply waiting until there is a TF that you like and doing that. I think anyone who buys a Notice from shards alone is mad. IMO, that cost represents Positron and Co. evaluation that the reticence to grouping is unreasonable. And it is. Last night I was on a Kahn and there was a player who had connection problems and it appeared kid problems as well. This mythical casual gamer that you all want to protect so much. Well, the group was quite understanding and we even had her/him sit at the door last mission so he/she wouldn't DC during the final mission. The player was an empath and we could have used the buffs, but everyone decided that the player getting their Notice was more important and we didn't want her/him to take the risk of losing out.

Pure soloers have their path and it is punitively expensive. But there is an alternative that is so much easier in comparison that I have no sympathy.

The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
I already solo AVs. Saying that I am being unreasonable because I want more power to do things I already do, but easier, is itself unreasonable. That's the point of gaining more power in a video game - to do things easier, or to be able to tackle harder things. Exactly what I'm expecting.
Then just take either of the paths open to you. Either group for a TF or grind shards until your eyes bleed. Your choice.

The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater View Post
Our devs have a history of starting out at the extreme and dialing it back to more reasonable levels based upon feedback and datamining.
And that's why I'm not reacting with "88 shards? They must be out of their freaking minds!!!!! This is totally insane!!!!!"

It's also why I'm pointing out that 100 million is not unreasonable, since I don't want them to dial back the inf cost. I'll gladly pay it, and no, I'm not a multi-billionaire.

Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
I think we should be fine because during the BAF you'd have to be asleep to not be participating in some major way.
Well, we have to actually see the reward system to make that judgment. If it ends up being a 'ranking' system for rewards amongst the participants [ie, whoever scores the most 'participation points' get the 'big prize', everyone else gets consolation prizes, like open quests tend to behave], that's a different matter than simply having to reach a 'threshold' point for certain rewards.

Really, we need to know the metrics, but, I am hopefully that the Incarnate Trials do become the primary method [the setup makes them look like they are intended to be]. Time will tell .

Let's Dance!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliana Blue View Post
88 shards vs. running the WTF once is pretty extreme.
Lets not portray things worse than they are, hmm?

It's 40 shards vs. running the WST once.

The other 48 shards come from crafting the uncommon boost. The fastest I ever crafted an uncommon was in 3 TFs and a Mothership raid.

@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueMetal View Post
Lets not portray things worse than they are, hmm?

It's 40 shards vs. running the WST once.
No, it's not. The WST gives a Notice. Crafting the Notice costs 40 shards and 4 uncommons. The cost of 4 uncommons is 12 each. The WST gives something that is the 40 shards and the 4 uncommons. That's 88 shards.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueMetal View Post
Lets not portray things worse than they are, hmm?

It's 40 shards vs. running the WST once.

The other 48 shards come from crafting the uncommon boost. The fastest I ever crafted an uncommon was in 3 TFs and a Mothership raid.
First, as Eiko says, that's just plain not correct.

Second, referencing TFs is...well, if not disingenuous, then not fully thought through. This option was implemented for people who don't want to run TFs. Therefore, saying you can just get the Incarnate salvage through TFs is a non-starter. Unless and until salvage can be procured outside TFs, the only way to get them solo will be through shards.

De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
No, it's not. The WST gives a Notice. Crafting the Notice costs 40 shards and 4 uncommons. The cost of 4 uncommons is 12 each. The WST gives something that is the 40 shards and the 4 uncommons. That's 88 shards.
Ah oops. Will you believe I actually looked at the screeny twice to make sure I was seeing it right?

In that case I agree that 88 seems a bit steep. The 100 mil really isn't though.

You have to take into account that this stuff isn't available JUST to non-teamers though. If they make it so you can get it a week or 2 of non-farming solo play (or even a month) it will be trivial for casual players who team and do TFs, let alone for the more hardcore players. It would kind of defeat to point of having it locked behind time gated TFs and end-game raids.

@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
First, as Eiko says, that's just plain not correct.
Yes, yes. I'm a doofus.

Quote:
Second, referencing TFs is...well, if not disingenuous, then not fully thought through. This option was implemented for people who don't want to run TFs. Therefore, saying you can just get the Incarnate salvage through TFs is a non-starter. Unless and until salvage can be procured outside TFs, the only way to get them solo will be through shards.
I'm aware of all that. I'd rehash what I was getting at, but since I'm a doofus it's not really relevant anymore, so I'm not going to bother, mkay?

@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetpack View Post
It also means that all of your shards are going to the Alpha slot.

So, no other Incarnate slots could be gotten, as they said all of the slots can be opened with shards.

Hmm.

Of course, you could keep the numbers high and just up the shard drop rate.
I have gotten a grand total of zero shards while playing solo +0 to +1/8. I'm lucky if I get 2-3 shards per TF. There's been times that I've gotten completely shafted and only gotten 1.

Seems my luck with getting purple drops has transferred to shards now.


 

Posted

Assuming those numbers are final and they will go live as is, my reaction would be to never buy a Notice of the Well using the conversion recipe. I have the money and I have the shards, but I just perceive it to be too expensive. I'd prefer it if there were different alternatives in order to suit different playstyles, such as:

- 4 uncommons + 40 shards (for those who don't want to spend inf)
- 4 uncommons + 200 million inf (for those who don't mind the market)
- 4 uncommons + 200 merits (for those who get merits out of arcs)
- 4 uncommons + 100 merits + 100 million inf (combination of above two)
- 4 uncommons + 10 alignment merits (spend two weeks grinding tips for it)

www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leandro View Post
Assuming those numbers are final and they will go live as is, my reaction would be to never buy a Notice of the Well using the conversion recipe. I have the money and I have the shards, but I just perceive it to be too expensive. I'd prefer it if there were different alternatives in order to suit different playstyles, such as:
I'm fairly sure that this is the intended reaction.

@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
It only take 88 for the people who refuse to do a TF or raid ever. If you're willing to do even a Mothership Raid, you can earn a few shards + enough Vanguard Merits to buy Grai Matters. Even if you don't need that component, you can break it down into more shards. If you're on a server that raids Hami, that's almost a guaranteed 7-10 shards for a very limited group commitment.

Then of course, you can cut this whole thing out, by simply waiting until there is a TF that you like and doing that. I think anyone who buys a Notice from shards alone is mad. IMO, that cost represents Positron and Co. evaluation that the reticence to grouping is unreasonable. And it is. Last night I was on a Kahn and there was a player who had connection problems and it appeared kid problems as well. This mythical casual gamer that you all want to protect so much. Well, the group was quite understanding and we even had her/him sit at the door last mission so he/she wouldn't DC during the final mission. The player was an empath and we could have used the buffs, but everyone decided that the player getting their Notice was more important and we didn't want her/him to take the risk of losing out.

Pure soloers have their path and it is punitively expensive. But there is an alternative that is so much easier in comparison that I have no sympathy.
Actually I don't think it will take that long with 88 shards, seeing as how EVERYTHING in the game now can drop a shard. ("now" as in come Issue 20).

Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leandro View Post
Assuming those numbers are final and they will go live as is, my reaction would be to never buy a Notice of the Well using the conversion recipe. I have the money and I have the shards, but I just perceive it to be too expensive. I'd prefer it if there were different alternatives in order to suit different playstyles, such as:

- 4 uncommons + 40 shards (for those who don't want to spend inf)
- 4 uncommons + 200 million inf (for those who don't mind the market)
- 4 uncommons + 200 merits (for those who get merits out of arcs)
- 4 uncommons + 100 merits + 100 million inf (combination of above two)
- 4 uncommons + 10 alignment merits (spend two weeks grinding tips for it)
I could get behind this.

Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Actually I don't think it will take that long with 88 shards, seeing as how EVERYTHING in the game now can drop a shard. ("now" as in come Issue 20).
My 50s exclusively run at 50 (I hate exemplaring) and also run at x8 and it still took me two weeks of playing to get an Uncommon Boost, and that was supplemented by buying Gr'ai's with Vanguard Merits. And by some reports I'm on the lucky side of shard drops.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Actually I don't think it will take that long with 88 shards, seeing as how EVERYTHING in the game now can drop a shard. ("now" as in come Issue 20).
Important point to remember. Also that components can be broken down to shards.

Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2

 

Posted

Ignoring everyone and their monkey being an arrogant, rude sod because people happen to disagree (yes, that works both ways), that does seem a little steep to me.

Having the option is nice, yes. But I woulda thought either all the components and, say, a couple of million OR a couple of mil and 40 shards would have been enough.
100 mil + shards AND components? Thats a tad steep, and a little unrealistic time wise.

Yes, I get there is 'encouraging'. Usually the devs are very good at that. This on the other hand smells like they let certain people off the boards design it, as an excercise in how big an eMiddle Finger they could make... And I don't approve of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Actually I don't think it will take that long with 88 shards, seeing as how EVERYTHING in the game now can drop a shard. ("now" as in come Issue 20).
I think that remains to be seen unless fighting lowbie mobs has a higher drop rate than 50s mobs. That just means you're not restricted to 50 content and will be more willing to help out your friend who wants to start a new alt, but i would think with fewer powers there would be less drop chance rolls.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark One View Post
I have gotten a grand total of zero shards while playing solo +0 to +1/8. I'm lucky if I get 2-3 shards per TF. There's been times that I've gotten completely shafted and only gotten 1.

Seems my luck with getting purple drops has transferred to shards now.
Sounds like it. I've had two of one mission playing on 0/x3. On 0/x8 I avarage just under one per mission. Unless you have "bosses whilst solo" off?

I did only get one of the Kahn TF just now though.

I really should do something about this signature.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Then just take either of the paths open to you. Either group for a TF or grind shards until your eyes bleed. Your choice.
There should probably be a slightly more moderate path in the middle.

I'm not going to repeat my position on that score, since you know what that is (and I yours). Regardless of the fact that it was inevitable that "any path is better than none" would turn into "what lunatic designed this path" its probably objectively safe to say that exactly as I warned would happen the quick and dirty solo path would have to be scaled initially too high, just because of the rule that its easier to scale down than ramp up. The best thing to do is probably to let the inevitable venting occur because it is inevitable, while the system's balance is analyzed more carefully.

Just because people got what they asked for, doesn't mean they got what they deserve. Reward systems should be arbitrated, as Ross says in A Few Good Men, without passion or prejudice.

[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]

In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)

 

Posted

I'm surprised it doesn't also require some Blood of the Incarnate and Essence of the Furies Invention salvage.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Gale View Post
Think of it like this. "Okay, you hate TFs, but *how much* do you hate TFs? Do you hate TFs so much that you'd rather spend weeks or months gathering 88 Shards and 100 mil Inf than running *one* specific TF in one specific week? Okay then, fair enough. Have your Notice."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
There should probably be a slightly more moderate path in the middle.

I'm not going to repeat my position on that score, since you know what that is (and I yours). Regardless of the fact that it was inevitable that "any path is better than none" would turn into "what lunatic designed this path" its probably objectively safe to say that exactly as I warned would happen the quick and dirty solo path would have to be scaled initially too high, just because of the rule that its easier to scale down than ramp up. The best thing to do is probably to let the inevitable venting occur because it is inevitable, while the system's balance is analyzed more carefully.

Just because people got what they asked for, doesn't mean they got what they deserve. Reward systems should be arbitrated, as Ross says in A Few Good Men, without passion or prejudice.
I can't help but to draw parallels between this "soloers want a way to get Notices" situation and the long and infamous history of the Isolator badge.

As a quick summary the Isolator badge was introduced during Issue 2 long after many original characters had played through the CoH tutorial. This meant there was a time when older characters that were past the tutorial prior to Issue 2 had no reasonable chance to earn the Isolator badge. Many of us (including yours truly) debated long and hard for an option to correct that oversight. Unfortunately for us there were a number of individuals (which I will not call out here for the sake of keeping old wounds closed) who were so desperate for a way to get Isolator that they made open claims that they would be willing to do "anything" to get it no matter how hard and/or ridiculous. Well in the true spirit of "be careful what you wish for" the Devs eventually gave us a way to get Isolator in the form of the now infamous "One Contaminated spawn per HOUR in RV" solution.

Of course since then things have evolved so now you can get the Isolator badge post-tutorial relatively easily in the blueside Ouroboros Pilgrim arc. But still for the better part of a year we lived under the reality of the "Contaminated spawn in RV" method as the only way to do it. It gave us pre-I2ers a way to do it, even if that way was very, very far from ideal. The fate of the soloers getting a way to earn Notices even if that way is "less than easy" seems very much par for the course.

It's funny how history tends to repeat itself...

Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀