Want a Notice of the Well solo? That'll be...
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-02-10 19:03 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I am not going to read this entire thread because the little I have read has mostly amounted to "that's a lot" and "suck it soloers." You are saying nothing new.
The shard amount required is...much along the lines of that one Contaminated spawning in RV. Also the fact that it's mostly Shards with very few components required bothers me. If you do a bunch of TFs that aren't the WST but give components you will still need 72 Shards. The shard cost should be lower, and a larger percentage should be payable in components. More commons, fewer uncommons. Components encourage running TFs that aren't the "TF of the week," and encourage teaming among people who are tired of running the same task over and over or just don't like that week's WST. Shards encourage Council Empire farming.
100 million inf is not unreasonable and is a much-needed inf sink. I hope they don't lower that.
Oh and by the way, I just finished a successful Baraccuda SF and it still sucks. It gave me a Notice but it is still a bad SF. Adding shinies to the garbage doesn't change the fact that it stinks.
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Meh, it's only about the same as the more popular Purple IOs, and I have bought a whole bunch of those.|
Originally Posted by Necrotron
That is a whole lot of cash. That means a top tier Alpha, with its one Favour and two third-tier Alphas (one Notice each) in the recipie, will costs 400 million influence.
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And I mostly acumulated the inf solo. It soon builds up (although playing on X8 helps).
I really should do something about this signature.
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Again, though - this is getting to the point of accessibility of that one Infected who spawned at the station in Recluse's Victory sometimes. It's better than nothing, but... This keeps bringing me back to a conversation from Advent rising:|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Think of it like this. "Okay, you hate TFs, but *how much* do you hate TFs? Do you hate TFs so much that you'd rather spend weeks or months gathering 88 Shards and 100 mil Inf than running *one* specific TF in one specific week? Okay then, fair enough. Have your Notice."
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Colonel: Our ships have the ability to blast small asteroids out of the way.
Ethan: That's better than nothing.
Gideon: That IS nothing.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I appreciate it, and it'll probably be doable, if mostly for small teams who don't run TFs very often. Hell, it may be viable for me. A few lucky Purple drops made me my first Billion on a 50 Brute.
But like I said before. I get the hint. This is team content. I've made my peace with that.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Our devs have a history of starting out at the extreme and dialing it back to more reasonable levels based upon feedback and datamining.
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Originally Posted by Starjammer
True. However, the numbers we've got now are the numbers they chose to start with, so they must see some merit in them. Giving feedback on some imaginary and as-yet hypothetical set of future numbers would be meaningless, as you yourself have pointed out many a time.
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Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
It's not extreme though.
I reckon I could solo a Notice in about a month (playing 1-2 hours a day).
I really should do something about this signature.
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So you want to be able to do what only the most high-end, well built characters can do, arguably something the devs never really even intended, but you don't want it to be any harder to get to that point that it was from going from 49-50.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
As for what I'd use the boosts for - soloing AVs in less than half an hour. It's kind of fun to take on Manticore or Miss Liberty or other big names by myself, at "full" (I consider AVs mostly a cheat, but it's still fun to beat the cheat) power, but I get bored doing it because even the fastest still takes fifteen or twenty minutes. With more power, I can significantly speed up that rate, and take on AVs I currently cannot.
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You refuse to do things that would make it easier because you are applying some kind of real-world moral framework to a video game.
You seem to think it's selfish/wrong/evil/mean of the majority to not want to acquiesce to someone that is just flat out refusing to play more than a subset of the game.
You have painted yourself into a corner case that it would likely take significant development time to accommodate while, arguably, a large portion of the player base seem to be enjoying the game as implemented, if only from the pretty lights on the login screen for the servers.
You are anti-'anything beside punching dudes the face' it seems, yet you want to rewards for nothing more than that.
Your arguments range from "it's all about the evil extroverts" to "this is not what MMOs really are" to "my real world principles won't allow me to play that way."
In a couple posts I have seen, even going so far as to imply the way the business world that revolves around producing the income needed to continue development on the game itself is 'wrong' and that you cannot see any thing that 'justifies' why the business would run that way.
Really? You really think that is a reasonable, ration outlook? Really?
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
Alright... alright, I am going to post in the forums for the first time, in a long time.
Complaining that an MMO (yes it is an MMO) adds a multiplayer reward is like complaining that a racing game adds rewards for completing a race.
The fact you can amble around the track aimlessly (and enjoy it... which I sometimes do... especially in online multiplayer) doesn't mean that any large section of the playerbase do, or should get the same rewards as those who do as the game intended.
Yesterday I put aside 2 hours to play CoH and I decided to do the weekly task force. I beat it in a non speedrun in about an hour. I used my 2nd hour of play to help a second group do it.
I understand alotted time to play can be an issue, but if you don't have an hour to spend on something you enjoy, getting +1 doesn't seem to be your biggest problem.
I don't mean to be inflammatory, I am just saying that spending an hour to do the WTF isn't the apocalypse. If you are dead-set against teaming, or are standing on principle... okay congratulations I guess. You were heard. You have a way of getting it other then the WTF. It's a tad rediculous, but so is the fact you refuse to put aside your (apprently utter) hatred for human contact for 1 hour.
And I'd like to say, the TF I did wasn't with any long time friends, or an SG. It was a PuG I found inside of a minute of logging in. Same thing I did last week.
I'd like to say cut the amount of total shards needed in half and from a totally solo standpoint I think that's reasonable. However, I think what makes balancing these rewards difficult is the fact that this option isn't only available for soloers.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Run a Kahn. Mine took about half an hour. They were PUGs. |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
I have never been on a TF shorter than 90 minutes in my entire play history. I don't like doing speed runs (I get lost and disoriented when you skip around objectives) and I tend to run slower than "steamroll" teams.
Usually, TFs I've been on have taken 2:00 to 2:30. And no, I don't want you to invite me to your speed run. I'd be no better than a door sitter, and I'm not willing to be a door sitter. |
People are apparently getting close to the 20 minute mark.
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Pretty much. Just remember that "I get the hint" means I understand it and realise it's pointless to argue, not that I accept it or that I like it, and you can bet money I'll speak up again next time it's brought up.
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Originally Posted by RadDidIt
It's.... over?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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A fair point, however, something I would like to contest. The I20 Incarnate Trials also supposedly provide a method to obtain the Notice, that isn't time-gated. They might make a better immediate comparison. WSF method is still very relevant though, as it may turn out to be easier than the Incarnate Trials, and then become the de facto primary method.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Yep, but I must point out again that the Notice is gated content. I think we're underestimating that fact too much in this thread.
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Also, I kind of like that the combine up isn't time gated, in theory it may actually consume more Inf out of the system, but given the Shard #, I doubt it. Personally, I'd like to see the hard salvage count [not including the uncommon salvage and all that] get closer to maybe 20 or 30 instead of 40, just for progression consistency. It's really "weird" that the Notice -> Well takes 32, while Uncommon -> Notice takes 40. But that'll be what beta is for testing.
Let's Dance!
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Just cause it needs to be said again.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
You can make 100 million in 2-4 days of casual play running tips.
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People are worried about the 100 million when it takes 88 shards? W . . . T . . . F?
Seriously, get some perspective people.
As for me I like the numbers, even if they are MOST LIKELY NOT FINAL.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Also THIS. The bolded part.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Well remember, in i20, shards will be dropped for enemies under level 50.
Also, for that 100million, I'm not saying it can be made in a day, I however can make a few million if I remember to sell the things I find. Also, if you're going completely solo, as you're hunting for shards, you're making money. So the test is, I would think, how much influence are you getting by the time you get the needed shards? |
The devs are making this more and more casual and yet folks are still up in arms.
I . . . don't get it.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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And yet folks keep getting sucked into trying to reason with that irrationality because Eiko-chan, to his or her credit, doesn't use the crazy and inflammatory language that most people who take an irrational and fringe position normally do. However, a moderated tone does not equal being reasonable.|
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
So you want to be able to do what only the most high-end, well built characters can do, arguably something the devs never really even intended, but you don't want it to be any harder to get to that point that it was from going from 49-50.
You refuse to do things that would make it easier because you are applying some kind of real-world moral framework to a video game. You seem to think it's selfish/wrong/evil/mean of the majority to not want to acquiesce to someone that is just flat out refusing to play more than a subset of the game. You have painted yourself into a corner case that it would likely take significant development time to accommodate while, arguably, a large portion of the player base seem to be enjoying the game as implemented, if only from the pretty lights on the login screen for the servers. You are anti-'anything beside punching dudes the face' it seems, yet you want to rewards for nothing more than that. Your arguments range from "it's all about the evil extroverts" to "this is not what MMOs really are" to "my real world principles won't allow me to play that way." In a couple posts I have seen, even going so far as to imply the way the business world that revolves around producing the income needed to continue development on the game itself is 'wrong' and that you cannot see any thing that 'justifies' why the business would run that way. Really? You really think that is a reasonable, rational outlook? Really? |
Most MMO's end-game is hard-core (grindy, long hours, complicated system) and large scale (raids with dozens of folk requiring precision timing). CoH's system provides the most casual friendly (simple, short play periods) end game one could imagine for an MMO. Then on top of that, if offers a solo option.
So, there's easy mode (raids) and solo mode.
Then there is this call for easy *and* solo mode. I predicted a while back that the moment the Devs give in and create a solo mode, there will be those who want it solo and casual-easy. And if the Devs ever actually gave them that, there would be calls for it to be even easier: "I want to log on, click a few buttons that set the direction of my PCs and then log in a week later and get the rewards of that offline progress!" It would happen.
That's why the Devs should not give in to the calls to make it solo and easy.
And if those unreasonable folks want to interpret this stand as saying, "Suck it, soloers!", and not understand how easy-and-solo end-game content is a bad idea for an MMO, then, by all means, they should indeed suck upon it.
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My perspective is someone remarked on the 100m, other's jump on saying it's not that hard now. And then the initial poster tries to respond to other side remarks in that post, thus prolonging the discussion about the 100m, when really, they've accepted that the 100M isn't really important [currently].|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Just cause it needs to be said again.
People are worried about the 100 million when it takes 88 shards? W . . . T . . . F? Seriously, get some perspective people. As for me I like the numbers, even if they are MOST LIKELY NOT FINAL. |
People [like me!] just keep bringing it up.
Let's Dance!
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Honestly once BAF comes out (and the rewards for it are what I think they will be) I don't think I'll be touching ANY WST unless its ITF week. |
Originally Posted by reiella
A fair point, however, something I would like to contest. The I20 Incarnate Trials also supposedly provide a method to obtain the Notice, that isn't time-gated. They might make a better immediate comparison. WSF method is still very relevant though, as it may turn out to be easier than the Incarnate Trials, and then become the de facto primary method.
Also, I kind of like that the combine up isn't time gated, in theory it may actually consume more Inf out of the system, but given the Shard #, I doubt it. Personally, I'd like to see the hard salvage count [not including the uncommon salvage and all that] get closer to maybe 20 or 30 instead of 40, just for progression consistency. It's really "weird" that the Notice -> Well takes 32, while Uncommon -> Notice takes 40. But that'll be what beta is for testing. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Seems to me the inf cost could be doubled, given how easy it is to make inf in the game. Shard cost seems fine, maybe a tiny bit low, but whatever. Now soloers have what they wanted, so there ought to be no more complaints, right? Right?
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All the costs are fine as is. If there is anything the devs might lower the shard costs slightly.|
Originally Posted by Emberly
Seems to me the inf cost could be doubled, given how easy it is to make inf in the game. Shard cost seems fine, maybe a tiny bit low, but whatever. Now soloers have what they wanted, so there ought to be no more complaints, right? Right?
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But I wouldn't bet on it.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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People are looking at the shard requirement from the perspective of current earning rates. As you pointed out they aren't taking into account the fact they will be able to earn shards from everything their character does in I20.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Also THIS. The bolded part.
The devs are making this more and more casual and yet folks are still up in arms. I . . . don't get it. |
I for one am going to laugh my rump off the first time I get a shard from a level 10 Outcast while exemped down to a friend's alt.
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The rewards for the BAF may be a bit unpredicatable, since it has been stated that they will be based around a "player contribution system" and they can produce weird outcomes.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Honestly once BAF comes out (and the rewards for it are what I think they will be) I don't think I'll be touching ANY WST unless its ITF week.
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I really should do something about this signature.
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I think we should be fine because during the BAF you'd have to be asleep to not be participating in some major way.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
The rewards for the BAF may be a bit unpredicatable, since it has been stated that they will be based around a "player contribution system" and they can produce weird outcomes.
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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Yes, limited resources and catering to the majority. Simple as that.
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Is there a reason, other than "it's an MMO!", for the end game to be "team-based"?
Remember, the "MMO" did not start with Ultima Online. That was just when they added graphical sprites. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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I do. On a server with half the population of Freedom, if that much. You're overstating the problem.
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Originally Posted by Toony
So...don't even play a villain?
ohohoho that slaps me on the knee. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Think of it like this. "Okay, you hate TFs, but *how much* do you hate TFs? Do you hate TFs so much that you'd rather spend weeks or months gathering 88 Shards and 100 mil Inf than running *one* specific TF in one specific week? Okay then, fair enough. Have your Notice."
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